Liverpool FC Forum

by **sugarcoatediceberg91** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:05 am

SundanceKid wrote:I know Xabi has quality, but he's no longer showing it

for me Xabi's form dropped rapidly once Mascherano arrived. I think before Javier's arrival, Xabi knew he was the best defensive midfielder we had and was the fans favourite but since Mascherano's arrival he taken the mantle of our number one defensive midfielder and has also has more love from the fans.

I think Xabi just needs to get that out of his head and show that he is the best defensive player we have and it'll relight the spark in the fans for him. Once he's cemented as first choice again I think we'll see the best of him, at the moment he's not.

Which is one of the reasons I wouldn't sell him this summer because Mascherano may be at the Olympics along with Lucas, so our first choice central pairing will be Alonso and Gerrard. At the start of next year I think Xabi will refind that form.

by **JBM** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:15 am

sugarcoatediceberg91 wrote:i'll answer it in a mo, so bare with me. Benitez wants to buy Barry when we don't need him...with or without Alonso in my opinion. That 12 million could be spent on something more productive.

Anyway back to the question "If Rafa buys Barry, would I sell Xabi?" Yes because I don't think Alonso will be happy plodding along behind Mascherano and Barry in the picking order. And if a player isn't happy it affects the squad, so for the benifit of the squad Xabi would have to go. I still don't see the need in Barry but if we finally sign him then Xabi will have to go.

Not so sure about that, Barry can play LB/LM as well, and depending on the formation Benitez uses (ie) with 4-4-2 there is only a place for one CM alongside Gerrard who one would assume would mostly be Mascherano, The question with Alonso IMO relates to who provides the best back-up to Mascherano, Alonso or Lucas. Personally I'd take Alonso every time and if someone has to go it should be Lucas.

by **LFC2007** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:17 am

SundanceKid wrote:Here's some crazy though though, if we were to keep Xabi rather than sell for some good spending money, how well do you think he'd do as a winger? Haha. I know he's not really the right type for it, but he is an artisan when it comes to passing. Maybe he's not shining because the midfield is becoming too congested for him to make through attacking passes. I really do think he should be playing winger

F*ck me gently

by **SundanceKid** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:24 am

I can't believe I have to explain this shit to you guys. Seriously. All you do is think over the same orthodox football and claim we need the same players, though we never get anywhere with it. Xabi has been playing in the middle for how many years now? How many times have we been in the title race? It's time for a fucking change. He doesn't have to be a Ronaldo type winger, but I don't see what Ryan Giggs has over Xabi.

by **LFC2007** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:25 am

by **SundanceKid** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:26 am

LFC2007 wrote:

Ahhh fuck it

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:27 am

Alonso has struggled since the 2006 Fa cup final, when Pardew used Ashton and Harewood to harass and pressurise Alonso with great effect. Since then most teams make sure Alonso has little time to pick out his passes.

Injuries and formational changes have added to his problems. Where as Gerrard or Sissoko would make forward runs taking players with them, Mascherano is just as happy as Alonso to sit deep, and so adds to Alonso's problems in a more congested midfield.

Changes in our wide players has also added to Xabi's woes, Gerrard and Kewell were both happy to receive the ball deep both to feet or in space, whereas Pennant, Kuyt and to an extent Riise prefer the ball to feet but rarely look for the ball played into space. (Kuyt looks for the ball into space but is just not fast enough)

I think BigMick gave the best post on the reasons for the decline and fall of Alonso only recently. (I can't remember in what thread though. (maybe this one?

)

by **LFC2007** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:28 am

by **sugarcoatediceberg91** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:36 am

JBM wrote:
sugarcoatediceberg91 wrote:i'll answer it in a mo, so bare with me. Benitez wants to buy Barry when we don't need him...with or without Alonso in my opinion. That 12 million could be spent on something more productive.

Anyway back to the question "If Rafa buys Barry, would I sell Xabi?" Yes because I don't think Alonso will be happy plodding along behind Mascherano and Barry in the picking order. And if a player isn't happy it affects the squad, so for the benifit of the squad Xabi would have to go. I still don't see the need in Barry but if we finally sign him then Xabi will have to go.

Not so sure about that, Barry can play LB/LM as well, and depending on the formation Benitez uses (ie) with 4-4-2 there is only a place for one CM alongside Gerrard who one would assume would mostly be Mascherano, The question with Alonso IMO relates to who provides the best back-up to Mascherano, Alonso or Lucas. Personally I'd take Alonso every time and if someone has to go it should be Lucas.

The point is though mate, do we need a fella who can play left back when we have Aurelio/Arbeloa/Carra/Riise/Insua/new Italian left back fella to play there...same with left wing when we have Babel/Benayoun/Pennant (at times)/Leto/Putterill/Hammill.

I like the look of Insua, so I'd put him at left back and I think Babel is a bloody good left winger.

I wouldn't waste 20 million on this new Italian fella and Barry while we allow Micah Richards/David Bentley/Berbatov and any other world star who'd actually improve the starting 11 (not the squad) slip through our fingers.

People whinge "we haven't had the money". We have, we've just been too afraid to buy a world star in place of four/five average players. Yes you need a squad, but our reserves and youth can offer just as good service as some of the :censored:

squad players we have now.

by **Sabre** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:21 am

SundanceKid wrote:"Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso says he has no intention of leaving the club". Not that he's wrong, but he does consider himself valuable to us, even though the referees were more involved in games than him. I know Xabi has quality, but he's no longer showing it, I don't know whether that will change or not. But it seems to me that he doesn't really understand how drastically his importance has dropped. I don't even consider him one of the essential parts of the midfield anymore.

Here's some crazy though though, if we were to keep Xabi rather than sell for some good spending money, how well do you think he'd do as a winger? Haha. I know he's not really the right type for it, but he is an artisan when it comes to passing. Maybe he's not shining because the midfield is becoming too congested for him to make through attacking passes. I really do think he should be playing winger

Get a clue lad. Xabi Winger? he'd rather be a goal keeper.

:kungfu:

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:35 am

Too bad those Kieta rumors weren't true. He would have been a good replacement for Alonso.

by **SundanceKid** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:05 am

Sabre wrote:
SundanceKid wrote:"Liverpool midfielder Xabi Alonso says he has no intention of leaving the club". Not that he's wrong, but he does consider himself valuable to us, even though the referees were more involved in games than him. I know Xabi has quality, but he's no longer showing it, I don't know whether that will change or not. But it seems to me that he doesn't really understand how drastically his importance has dropped. I don't even consider him one of the essential parts of the midfield anymore.

Here's some crazy though though, if we were to keep Xabi rather than sell for some good spending money, how well do you think he'd do as a winger? Haha. I know he's not really the right type for it, but he is an artisan when it comes to passing. Maybe he's not shining because the midfield is becoming too congested for him to make through attacking passes. I really do think he should be playing winger

Get a clue lad. Xabi Winger? he'd rather be a goal keeper.

Push him far wide, or push him out the transfer window.

by **redsince2001** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:51 am

he is gone ........got a feeling

by **Sabre** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:07 pm

redsince2001 wrote:he is gone ........got a feeling

You have probably the right feeling or hunch.

It's significant that in the past, until last season whenever Rafa listed the players who he considered the spine, like he has done to deny Torres if for sale, always mentioned Alonso. Not this time.

The last time he did mention him as key was in Spain, this winter.

Alonso's words are not as determined as a few days ago in San Sebastian. He yesterday said he had "Very fixed ideas" about staying in Liverpool as in he wants to stay here. The nuance of that Spanish words are significant to me.

He also stated that he sees very difficult that either Torres or Ronaldo leave their respective clubs, because they're very valued by their clubs and there are not release clauses.

But when asked about if he sees complicated his own leaving of Liverpool, he just said "The Euro is a great challenge and I want to focus on that and park any debate about my future for later".

So, in a nutshell, I feel that Alonso wants to stay, but he's starting to realise that the club might want to sell him.

If Alonso has the mind of a normal footballer of San Sebastian, he'll be well píssed with Rafa, because of the reason he already stated, should Rafa wanted to sell him, he would have liked to be told that face to face. Alonso probably feels now that the 5 year contract that he was offered last season was not a proof of trust, but giving Rafa absolute control about his future to negotiate.

That might lead to problems in negotiations, if the player feels "treasoned" by Rafa, he might just choose not to go just where Rafa wants him to go. I agree Alonso when he said that he deserves to be told the truth about his future.

P.S. Warning: If my hunch is true, I'll still be a through and through Rafaist

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:29 pm

While its a little unfair on Alonso to be left in limbo like this, its also understandable on Rafa's part. If Barry doesn't come I would think Rafa would want Alonso to stay, so rather than say "I want you to go if we buy Barry but I want you to stay if we can't", maybe its better to say nothing?

The other thing is maybe Rafa hasn't been told just how much money he has available for transfers yet, and is just waiting until this is clear before making his decision?

Riise seems to be in the same position of uncertainty, although obviously in a much weaker situation than Alonso has he only has 1 year remaining.

Sometimes a manager has to do what's best for the club, but not necessarily what's best for the player.

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