Liverpool FC Forum

by **Judge** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:11 pm

this side would be great, but we have lost crucial players (sold), need i say more

by **Dazzer** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:28 pm

Judge wrote:

this side would be great, but we have lost crucial players (sold), need i say more

I doubt we see a team that good at anfield for a while now.

by **heimdall** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:32 pm

Fauxy wrote:Reina not a natural shot stopper!!?? Someone is on drugs

Or someone has a different opinion to yours, as hard as it is for your mind to comprehend that.

I think Reina is very good at crosses, he used to be a bit dodgy at them but lately he's been extremely confident.
You cannot say that Reina is up there with the likes of Shay Given, Cech, Schmeical etc in terms of shot stopping though, I mean how often in a one-on one situation does he make the save, very very seldom. I'm not saying he should be saving every single time but other keepers are better in those situations, more instinctive, whereas Reina is a bit more mechanical which isn't a terrible thing but keeps him from being a truly great keeper imo.

by **Dazzer** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:35 pm

heimdall wrote:
Fauxy wrote:Reina not a natural shot stopper!!?? Someone is on drugs

Or someone has a different opinion to yours, as hard as it is for your mind to comprehend that.

I think Reina is very good at crosses, he used to be a bit dodgy at them but lately he's been extremely confident.
You cannot say that Reina is up there with the likes of Shay Given, Cech, Schmeical etc in terms of shot stopping though, I mean how often in a one-on one situation does he make the save, very very seldom. I'm not saying he should be saving every single time but other keepers are better in those situations, more instinctive, whereas Reina is a bit more mechanical which isn't a terrible thing but keeps him from being a truly great keeper imo.

I have to Disagree I don't think shot stopping is his weakness I think its 1v1s he really sux's at those , but every keeper has a weaknesses its up to defenders to stop their keepers getting hammered in those weak areas tho.

by **heimdall** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:36 pm

Dazzer wrote:
Judge wrote:

this side would be great, but we have lost crucial players (sold), need i say more

I doubt we see a team that good at anfield for a while now.

what the hell you guys talking about we have massively upgraded our RB and lost a good CM in Alonso. Surely we have to wait and see what Aquaman, Xabi's replacement, can do before saying stuff like this or do you guys think the loss of Alonso is so critical that we will never find a worthy successor?

by **Dazzer** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:39 pm

heimdall wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
Judge wrote:

this side would be great, but we have lost crucial players (sold), need i say more

I doubt we see a team that good at anfield for a while now.

what the hell you guys talking about we have massively upgraded our RB and lost a good CM in Alonso. Surely we have to wait and see what Aquaman, Xabi's replacement, can do before saying stuff like this or do you guys think the loss of Alonso is so critical that we will never find a worthy successor?

Yes ! I Think so.

I think now tho we have the players to play another system but you know how Rafa is he loves his 4-5-1 but he ain't got the player he had in alonso who can play deep laying play maker and aquaman I doubt will take to that role.

by **heimdall** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:45 pm

And there you hit the nail on the head, a manager who can't evolve and adapt, some fecking footballing genius. :no

by **milou** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:11 pm

0-1 goals : P11 W2 D1 L8 (Won 18.18%)
2+ goals : P8 W6 D2 L0 (Won 75.00%)

Some interesting stats there mate.. another angle to look at things.

I broke down further and it reveal more about where our current problems lie.

<2009/2010>
2+ goals : P8 W6 D2 L0 (Win 75%, Draw 25%, Loss 0%)
1 goal : P8 W2 D1 L5 (Win 25%, Draw 12.5%, Loss 62.5%)
0 goals : P3 D0 L3 (Draw 0%, Loss 100%)

<2008/2009>
2+ goals: P31 W26 D3 L2 (83.9%, Draw 9.7%, Loss 6.5%)
1 goal : P16 W7 D7 L2 (Win 43.7%, Draw 43.7%, L12.5%)
0 goals : P8 D6 L2 (Draw 75% Loss 25%)

When we score 2 or more, you would naturally win majority of it, but we have drawn 2 out of 8 games (the recent 2-2 draws) this season.

When we score 1 goal, we have drawn too few and lost too many the season.

When we couldn't score, we have lost all matches bcos there have been no 0-0 so far this season.

It is our inability to keep clean-sheets that is costing us big time.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:27 pm

Now pepe is getting in the neck - ffs the guy is one of the 5 best keepers in the world . Of that their is no doubt .

Solid at crosses , Outstanding shot stopper , very good one on ones , reactions up their with the best and the number one in distribution .

by **Sir Roger** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:12 pm

The most disappointing thing for me in the city match was the woeful defending in general. Not zonal or man to man marking but simple basic defending which seems to have disappeared since last season. Sktel must shoulder the majority of the blame for the first goal as he was caught ball watching instead of looking who was attacking the ball or who was basically unmarked. He was nearest and should have seen adebayour and dealt with him. Second goal was mostly his fault too as he allowed tevez to take the ball off him in the corner, then ran into the box only to ball watch again and allow ireland to stand all alone waiting for the cross from swp. To be fair Lucas was also guilty of allowing ireland to pass him and he was ball watching as well and did nothing to stop the ball getting to ireland.
This is schoolboy stuff and Rafa really should make them watch the video and point out that it was purely sloppy and poor defending which cost us the points. He should make them train and drum it into them that ball watching and therefore not being aware of players being unmarked is a cardinal sin and must be eradicated asap

by **Rush Job** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:28 am

heimdall wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Rush Job wrote:
heimdall wrote:
damjan193 wrote:Corner kick + Shkrtel = conceding a goal. Shkrtel is an OK defender.He could block and tackle but the crosses are his problems as I can see.But in order to make a good defense we need a Vidic or a Puyol type of defender, which is imposible at the moment.Kyrgiakos is an OK defender too.As long as he sits on the bench we'll be fine.Charager is getting a bit old and Agger is getting injured too often.But at the end I actully dont see why do we suck that much in defense.The players may do alot of mistakes but they cant suck this much in defense.They're not really that bad but the defence is still critical.

It's only really set pieces that we suck at and this is because of zonal marking and the fact that our players clearly aren't comfortable with it combined with having manager who is too stubborn to change his mind.

We defend in much the same way as most other top teams you could name.
Why is it when we concede from a corner its the zonal part that gets the blame instead of the man to man?
We dont play a complete zonal system,infact we defend much the same way as we used to in Hansens days, man to man on the biggest threats and zonal elsewhere.
No one ever mentions that we lack height and players who are strong in the air, but then why would that have anything to do with it.

I'm sorry but that is complete and utter 100% grade a in so many ways. Firstly in what way do our defenders lack height, Skittles, Carra and Agger are all big lads aren't they and Insua is no dwarf either, plus Stevie and Nando are tall enough. In fact the only smallish players we have are Mascha and Benni.
Secondly if we defend corners in the same way as other teams then what the F is going on, why are we so terrible at them, who's fault is it?
For my money we do not do man-on-man in corners we do zonal and it quite simply doesn't work and every oppo player knows it. FFS all Adebayor had to do was take two steps back to get out of his "zone" and there was no one challenging him because no one was sure who's "zone" he had gone into.

I said we lack height and players who are strong in the air. Our CB have decent height but arent good in the air.... see?
We play a mixed system mate, like most top teams and not alot different to the one Hansen played in in the 80`s, according to the man his self.
Like it or not its a fact,stop getting your opinions from the media.

I get my facts from watching the game, where do get yours from, dogma perhaps, towing the line??
If the players aren't good enough in the air then sell them and get better ones or here's a novel idea fecking practice and get better!!

If we play the same system in defending corners then hwy are we all of a sudden the worst team in the premiership at them, do all the other clubs have more money than us.

i am sick and tired of this excuse that we have no money, there are plenty of cheaper players who can come in and do a job but we don't have any of them, instead we have a band of travelling willburys who don't give two sh1ts about Liverpool and have very poor skills and attitudes, why for example do we only have one striker on our books, how can a manager be called a genius when he allows that to happen?

Your facts arent facts though are they you tool, as is pointed out to you time and time again.
Now if you have a problem with something ive put across as a fact lets discuss it, if you cant manage that then why are you here?

by **Rush Job** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:32 am

heimdall wrote:And there you hit the nail on the head, a manager who can't evolve and adapt, some fecking footballing genius.

Can you quote me where someone has called him a genius, I`m only asking because you keep saying it.

by **stmichael** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:59 pm

Sir Roger wrote:The most disappointing thing for me in the city match was the woeful defending in general. Not zonal or man to man marking but simple basic defending which seems to have disappeared since last season. Sktel must shoulder the majority of the blame for the first goal as he was caught ball watching instead of looking who was attacking the ball or who was basically unmarked. He was nearest and should have seen adebayour and dealt with him. Second goal was mostly his fault too as he allowed tevez to take the ball off him in the corner, then ran into the box only to ball watch again and allow ireland to stand all alone waiting for the cross from swp. To be fair Lucas was also guilty of allowing ireland to pass him and he was ball watching as well and did nothing to stop the ball getting to ireland.
This is schoolboy stuff and Rafa really should make them watch the video and point out that it was purely sloppy and poor defending which cost us the points. He should make them train and drum it into them that ball watching and therefore not being aware of players being unmarked is a cardinal sin and must be eradicated asap

It would have been interesting to see if Gray would have banged on about City's "zonal marking" had Lucas buried that header in injury time.

Anyway it's clear that we lack an airally dominant centre half, both attacking and defending. The greek is good in the air but Hyypia is still twice the player that he is.

by **Owzat** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:50 pm

milou wrote:
0-1 goals : P11 W2 D1 L8 (Won 18.18%)
2+ goals : P8 W6 D2 L0 (Won 75.00%)

Some interesting stats there mate.. another angle to look at things.

I broke down further and it reveal more about where our current problems lie.

<2009/2010>
2+ goals : P8 W6 D2 L0 (Win 75%, Draw 25%, Loss 0%)
1 goal : P8 W2 D1 L5 (Win 25%, Draw 12.5%, Loss 62.5%)
0 goals : P3 D0 L3 (Draw 0%, Loss 100%)

<2008/2009>
2+ goals: P31 W26 D3 L2 (83.9%, Draw 9.7%, Loss 6.5%)
1 goal : P16 W7 D7 L2 (Win 43.7%, Draw 43.7%, L12.5%)
0 goals : P8 D6 L2 (Draw 75% Loss 25%)

When we score 2 or more, you would naturally win majority of it, but we have drawn 2 out of 8 games (the recent 2-2 draws) this season.

When we score 1 goal, we have drawn too few and lost too many the season.

When we couldn't score, we have lost all matches bcos there have been no 0-0 so far this season.

It is our inability to keep clean-sheets that is costing us big time.

I disagree that clean sheets are the main problem, we've failed to score more than one goal in over half our games and that is a problem that only a solid defence could paper over, that is to say keeping clean sheets isn't something we'd need to rely on if the team scored 2+ goals and then we'd be winning the requisite 75% of games that might land us a league title.

We've scored 26 goals in those 8 games with 2+ goals (2x 2-2, 2x 3-2, 2x 4-0, 6-1 and 2-0, the rest of the time we've scored just 8 goals in 11 games and that is poor. Only twice this season have we conceded more than 2 goals, against villa at home and Fulham away.

by **stmichael** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:03 pm

it's fair enough but at the end of the day, after 13 games last season in the league we had conceded SEVEN goals. this season we have conceded twenty.

the fact that 11 players have started in defence this season and we are only a 3rd of the way through it hasn't helped obviously but that doesn't legislate for individual errors that the like of carra, skrtel and insua have made. johnson was getting slaughtered for his defending by the morons in the press and yet he's been our best defender by far this season.

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