Liverpool FC Forum

by **laza** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:33 am

The Champion Leagues is enough for me , while I understand the critics of Rafa especially a couple of months due our slump getting stuck in, some deserved some not IMHO. One thing Ive found infuriating is how some people in putting the boot into Rafa, were also denigrating our Champion League success as nothing more then a European Carling cup.

Its a wonderful achievement and gained us immense prestige especially after magic of Istanbul and some wonderful Anfield nights. Sadly in this day and age the revenue its also gains us is a priority.

Obviously though League is Holy Grail and for me while Rafa wouldnt need to win it to keep his job past his 5 years. He does need to be a serious challenge for the trophy and still be hunt for it by the end of the season.

Im not sure thats possible whether he rotates or not the entire squad every other half. Manchester United seems to have done alright this season with their resting policy. End of day I still think we are couple of class players away from the title and our pockets arent as deep as the Mancs. Compounding that problem is having that cowboy clown now holding the keys to the club.

Its a double blow for Rafa, as arrival of Yank money man meant a greater expectation (look at what Mourinho achieved and where he ended up and sort of pressure that Grant has had to endure despite what Chelsea has achieved) . Yet its turned out that men of steel from states are straw dogs and we havent exactly been buying players like Shaun Wright Phillips just to stop him from playing for anybody else.

by **Owzat** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:27 am

s@int wrote:It may be the league that we desperately want mate, but any season where you reach the semi's of the CL has to be recognised as an achievement. First is first and second is no-where may have some value...... but not as much as a good CL run.

I disagree a semi final of the CL is an achievement, maybe in the competition itself, but this is our third in four years and Chelsea's third in four years and semis don't register on the records. Like the mancs and their seven QFs in a row, it's not even a worthwhile statistic except to compare with other teams. Two finals in three years is worth a mention, but if we lose at the semi final stage then it means nothing.

I'd willingly swap our semi final place for maybe even Arsenal's shot at the league title.

s@int wrote:I still honestly don't believe that there is anyone that could cheer us on to a CL final win and then ask for Rafa's head once the game is over. I think Rafa has done enough already to earn another season, but as Mick says if we struggle to challenge in the league yet again we could find ourselves in the same boat as this year, no league challenge but progressing in the CL, and what do we do then?

It's the same story though, do well in the Champions League and not even a challenge for the Premiership. I don't want another season of Premiership failings with the pain eased by a CL run. It is a massive distraction and I'd rather have a manager who can get us top two than one who seems too happy with winning in Europe.

It probably would be too hard to sack Rafa at that point, but he is doing enough and no more to keep his job. The aim was set, it hasn't been reached. Winning the Champions League twice was not what fans wanted when Rafa came here so why are we so happy to just accept it? Maybe the next manager won't win the league or Champions League, but the years since the last title keep growing in number

s@int wrote:Is CL success enough?

I would say it is a bad thing, deflects from the task in hand. If your wife tells you to go and buy a new car and you come back with a Harley Davidson don't you think you've failed in doing what was asked? The problem is Rafa came here to win the league, even Houllier landed secondary trophies. Maybe the Champions League is bigger than anything Houllier won, and indeed Rafa seems to have a knack for it, but when is the focus of our season going to stop being the Champions League and start being the Premiership.

And the longer our success in the Champions League continues, the harder Rafa is going to find it to not care about it. And while he cares about it our league ambitions fall by the wayside. FOCUS is what we need, Rafa can't let the Champions League go and for fans it is all too easy to accept that as a big trophy and give it another season because we've landed a big consolation prize. If you enter the lottery and win £10 nearly every time you will continue to enter the lottery even though you never win the jackpot.

And the last analogy, you're playing a fruit machine and it keeps giving you small payouts to keep you going. You think you're going to win the £100 soon, but all the machine is doing is giving you little wins here and there and you lose track of the fact that you've put £150 in it before the £100 drops. With Rafa the fruit machine may never pay out.....................

by **Judge** » Fri May 23, 2008 3:40 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:These are the minimum requirements for Rafa next season.

Champions League = Winner
FA Cup = Winner
Premiership = Winner
Simod Cup = Winner
Zenith Data Systems Cup = Winner
Will Carling Cup = Winner

Otherwise, he has to go.

i would add

charity shield = winner
euro super cup = winner
world club cup = winner

other wise he can fuck off back to spain

:wwww

by **The Manhattan Project** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:46 pm

Many women want Manhattan's sack.

by **Toffeehater** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:42 am

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:31 am

I have to agree with wait till summer alot of fans like my self I feel have a love hate relationship with Rafa.

I do love the guy he has given this club and fans some great memorys over his time here and for that I have nothing but thx for him.

My only problem with him is some times things will be going great for us and Rafa will do some thing like change 5 players in the team and say its because they are tired.

Now I know football nowa days is alot more driven and demanding for players but when we are only 7-8 games into the season I really am left with the question why Rafa why ?

But all that said I really do like him as a manager and tbh this is also maybe why I get angry at him when he makes mistakes because I know he can do so much better.

So I say wait to the summer , because we have to remember its not just the fact of sacking Rafa its sacking him and getting someone who is as good or better that is the problem.

by **GYBS** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:31 am

Rafa rests them early to keep them fresh for the whole season - it has been proven to work - the prob we have had is being out of it come jan , if we can stay in it until jan and with players fresher then maybe we can have a reall go at it .

by **zarababe** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:49 pm

No - to the question posed by the thread - posting 3-0 down to Spurs !

by **LegBarnes** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:22 am

I would have been more impressed lando if you could make a button that would sack rafa ?

Where do I Vote. :;):

by **DAV** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:05 pm

I think getting on 5 years is enough time for a manager to have all his own players, and have things either right or wrong by then. The excuse he couldn't get the 1st choice players he wanted in the transfer market where's a bit thin. As even Ferguson dosen't have that luxary at man utd. Le tissier,Shearer.carlos,thuram are to name but 4 players he really wanted and for one reason or another could not sign them. I look at our squad and their is some real talent. But no real quality in depth or on the right wing for that matter. To many average players and Lucas. Season after season we fail to kill off teams even the weak ones at home. Tragic cup defeats in the FA CUP and League cup. The champions League seems to RB's one big success. The league is just one big rotation of madness, i'm not saying RB takes a priority with europe, i think its that he shows no respect to some of the premiership opposition with his selections and substitutions. I say this season should be his last.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:08 am

I think it would be much better if Rafa could recognise he is failing and fall on his sword. One of the reasons I think he has to go is he doesn't seem to know what the problem is and how to fix it. One fine example is today claiming N'Gog, Babel and co aren't up to covering for Torres when he claimed they were adequate cover back when he sold Keane and no replacement was needed. I think most of us knew we rely too heavily on Torres and Gerrard for goals, I've been saying it for ages. So is our title challenge based purely on both having an injury free season AND having good ones at that? Might as well have given me the £40m he spent on players in the summer, those that could have worked have been misused or sold, the rest were just a waste of £12m. Do we have another Houllier in charge? Signing too many players for the future when we need players for the present. I also question if he isn't the same as Houllier in terms of buying a player and getting the worst out of him.

by **Judge** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:55 am

obviously NO

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:19 am

the "Rafa OUT" threads are fecking hilarious at the moment.

But on a serious note, i'm supporting him until the summer. Fine, if we finish outside the top 4 and win nothing then we can all call for his head. But to call for his head in October is foolish.

by **DAV** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:43 pm

I do not want RAFA sacked, as we can not really afford the pay off. I'm want him to walk away (which i don't think will happen). Or Real Madrid to take him away.

by **Owzat** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:44 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:Having posted an answers-only poll a while ago on the topic of whether or not we want Rafa sacked, it would appear that only 1/4 of the members on here actually DO want to see the gaffer fired.

I don't like or dislike Rafa, I want to see results improve and a title won not just "run close" or however you like to term last season's challenge.

If the way forward is to sack Rafa then so be it, I gather from reading on BBC that if we lose tonight it will be the worst run for FIFTY years.

Maybe sacking Rafa would cost us £20m, I gather not qualifying for the next round of the CL could cost us £10m and I hate to think what not finishing in the top four would cost us so I'm unconvinced by the argument that we can't afford to sack him, because for me it could be more costly not to UNLESS results improve. Even then how much improvement is needed, how soon and would it be a temporary 'paper over the cracks' ?

I know money is often cited as an issue, get rid of the yanks is the popular cry, but would Rafa really spend it wisely and how much would he need? And that won't make up for tactical shortcomings, he may not have the players to bring superstars off the bench but I do beg the question what even Ronaldinho, Kaka or Ronaldo could do with 15-20 mins of action....................................................

Sometimes you have to take what seems like a few steps back to make many more steps forward. The sentiments weren't much different when Houllier was in charge, if we hadn't got shot of him then would people have had Istanbul to praise Rafa over....................? Let's face it, without that win then there'd have been no Super Cup and he'd be on a par with 'arry on one FA Cup in terms of (half) decent trophies.

I was thinking about 'faith' earlier, the whole concept of 'belief' and how it's not necessarily a good thing and can cloud someone's judgement. I figured some time ago we wouldn't win the league, not by now and I still doubt very much we will under Rafa. We've been on some great runs, had a taste of success but it's like having a few crumbs off the cake knowing you'll never have a big slice and at best someone might offer you a piddly portion. Whether Rafa's money situation changes, his tactics are unlikely to change and it's debatable whether he'd spend any money wisely. Last summer it was £37.5m on two players, the summer before it was £35.3m on three players. Maybe Liverpool can attract bigger names than Citeh, but honestly the best comparison I can make in terms of our transfer dealings and success rate is probably a side like spudz. Yes, some very good players but paying over the odds for others and having more than their fair share of flops. For every Berbatov they sign a Pavlyuchenko, for every Modric they sign a Bentley. And they also sell players without giving them a chance, play players out of position and have sicknotes. Didn't they pay over the odds for a FB - Hutton?

I'd be as thrilled as anyone if we won the league, next season if not a shock win this, but I couldn't care a less who the manager in charge is. I'm not happy to trundle along, doing ok in the league and getting to the QFs in the CL while not worrying too much about domestic cups. Because for me that is all that I can see Rafa 'guarantees' and even that looks more like a milkshake than golden handshake these days. No trophies increases the pressure to press for the league, the problem is we seem quite content to 'believe' and finish top four and have a run at Europe every season. We sit in that comfort zone too long and we could be only dreaming of top four finishes and title challenges.

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