Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:05 pm

For me a challenging would be a decent enough season, but as always there will always be factors which will put into context what we have achieved. If we lose Gerrard for 3 months and Torres for 2 months, it's more understandable to me we finnish 8 points away of the top.

TOshack today (in a local newspaper) overrules the possibility of winning the league because 3 defeats are too much, and because Chelsea deservedly won and looked stronger. I don't overrule our possibilities yet, but I admit it's a bit of a handicap to have lost those games.

The Chelsea away game is one you can lose, what we must do is to win the games we can't avoid not to win, and that's what I'll ask the manager.

I think we need a FA cup or something like that because we need titles.

by **Owzat** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:19 pm

I refuse to blame money, Rafa has spent and yet the squad and XI seem no stronger than last season or the season before.

08/09 (six signings) Riera, N'Gog, Keane, Dossena, Degen, Cavalieri
09/10 (three signings) Johnson, Kyrgiakos, Aquilani

While on face value this season's signings may seem good, we lost Arbeloa and Alonso. In 08/09 we signed six players and by the end of the season none of them were in the first choice XI with Benayoun displacing Riera and Keane returned to spudz. So while our fortunes on the pitches are varying slightly, it's no great surprise we're not making the leaders quake in their boots when we spend a lot of money and have not really improved the side (pluses cancelled out by minuses) Torres is the last signing to make a real impact, a difference that took the squad forward and to 76 points then 86.

Never in the field of English football has so much been spent on changing so little.

by **DAV** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:23 pm

thing is, this kind of post comes up every season and has for the past 10-15 or more years. and the conclusion is, some will slate the manager some will defend him whatever.
seems to me we arnt the biggest and the best and havent been for some time, and seasons get wrote off every year before the turn of the year. even last year if you read back on previous posts.
This season is no different, just seems to me like most on here are quite happy being second (or third or forth best).
I'm not, but no point slagging :censored:

players off (lucas) as it just causes arguments. Or the owners who i dislike. When all said and done, don't train the team,don't pick the team,don't buy the players,dont make the subsitutions, and don't decide on formations.
so maybe you all think i want RB sacked.
Well to be honest no, as for years now we have kept having draws against weak teams which in my opinion has been our big downfall for years. Well that aint happening anymore, i never expected to win at spurs or chelsea and villa are a top 6 team. beat the rest take a few points mainly at home against the big teams. we might still have a season.
RB still has a job

by **Sir Roger** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:34 pm

Owzat wrote:I refuse to blame money, Rafa has spent and yet the squad and XI seem no stronger than last season or the season before.

08/09 (six signings) Riera, N'Gog, Keane, Dossena, Degen, Cavalieri
09/10 (three signings) Johnson, Kyrgiakos, Aquilani

While on face value this season's signings may seem good, we lost Arbeloa and Alonso. In 08/09 we signed six players and by the end of the season none of them were in the first choice XI with Benayoun displacing Riera and Keane returned to spudz. So while our fortunes on the pitches are varying slightly, it's no great surprise we're not making the leaders quake in their boots when we spend a lot of money and have not really improved the side (pluses cancelled out by minuses) Torres is the last signing to make a real impact, a difference that took the squad forward and to 76 points then 86.

Never in the field of English football has so much been spent on changing so little.

Rafa buys players like my bird buys shoes
:wwww

by **Tim LFC** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:41 pm

I think Rafa has to be more astute and shrewd with his signings. We don't need that much more quality to be honest we need another good striker and a player who can play wings or midfield. I maybe wrong but from what i hear we have quite a few good prospects in youths maybe i'm perceiving this wrong, i admittedly probably am though. I think Rafa needs to venture further afield. I know he likes his buys from La Liga but he should look more at the russian,eastern european leagues etc because they're creating some quality players who could be bought for cheap.

by **lakes10** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:42 pm

bit tricky this.

in my mind 6 points off the top spot, if we dont win, this will show that the still have a very good chance next year.

But for Rafa to keep his job i do feel he will need to be 6 points off and win the FA cup or CL.

by **Liverpool442** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:49 pm

I would say after finishing 2nd last year top four and a trophy a minimum to keep his job.
Think it would be acceptable to drop slightly in the league whilst we adjust to the loss of Alonso but a trophy is a must we don't want to get into the Aesenal mentality of just going through the motions, it is after all about winning.
However if we don't win it this year I would suggest Rafa is going to be under massive pressure and if Masch leaves in the summer we could be on a slippery slope so big decisions to be made for next season as that I feel that would be now or never for Rafa.

by **Number 9** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:14 pm

A decent effort this season?Its not what we are doing right now...is been nowhere near good enough.
Some people blame Rafa after games which IMO is usually all too easy.From where Im sitting he has put out teams in all the games we have lost that are more than capable of beating whats in front of us.Too many lethargic performances from individuals,not enough passion..and a desire to win that could be bettered by my granny.
The players need to sort themselves out and give more for the shirt.
Its been a puzzling start..at times we have looked great and others its been painful to watch players struggle to put passes together and play like a team of strangers.
Two massive reasons we have been so sh'it at times.
We miss Alonso HUGELY.he was fantastic for us.To be honest I will admit I thought he was a great player but I never realized at the time just how important this player was for LFC.Just look at the lack of control we have in games now,Alonso ran the MF,He also provided the defence with an easy option.He was always moving and as soon as he got the ball it was put somewhere useful,rarely wasted.IMO he spoilt Gerrard rotten with his perfect vision and inch perfect balls.
Lucas and Masch will never have this mans qualities...never!

Carragher?
What the fuc'k are you at lad?
The worst I have ever seen him.At times over the last season he was questioned on here.He was given the benefit of the doubt and rightly so IMO as the guy has been absolutely huge for us throughout his career,i love the lad.But if his form does not pick up soon he needs dropped,the guy has been a liability.
To be honest I find it embarrassing watching him running around redfaced and barking orders to other players when he is playing so poorly!
Is it a dip in form or is it just that he is finally past it?If its the later there is no time for sentiment.

One other thing,there seems to be a lot on here thinking Aqualani will be some sort saviour?
I say wise up.The guy is coming back from injury(hard in itself) and adjusting to a new life,a new style of football.Its gonna take time for him.He wont run out in his debut and be like a duck to water..we need to be patient here.It may be next season before he finds his feet....IF he stays fit!

Anyway..What is good enough,what are we aiming for?We sure as feck dont want to be playing for the top 4 by Xmas..we need to be up there to the end and taken as serious contenders.
I said at the start I dont blame Rafa for the poor start and I dont,but if we fall way short this season over 38 matches he must take the buck,he has been at LFC for long enough now and its his baby!

Maybe by then we will have DECENT HONEST owners with CASH and can look to a bright future with Rafa though!

by **lakes10** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:24 pm

going by what Ian Rush was saying at the weekend there is no team spirit in the club right now, thats something that needs to be worked on.
we hear stuff that some players dont talk to Rafa and they just talk on a work bases, well that ok but they need to get on with the other players.

I do take Ian's word that this is the truth as he spends most of his time at the club.
I think with the owner problem it is getting too much for the team and maybe for Rafa.
If things are not sorted soon then a top 4 could be too much to ask.

by **sgs** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:30 pm

....

Sorry but this is an idle thread. Bring it up after the christmas holidays...

by **Scottbot** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:06 pm

sgs wrote:....

Sorry but this is an idle thread. Bring it up after the christmas holidays...

I'm inclined to agree, i can't see the point of speculating (again) about where the blame lies (if) this season does go not to plan.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:25 pm

With the greatest respect to the last two posters, there isn't any football on at the moment and if you find the subject boring don't read it. The irony is that both of you have commented on how pointless the thread is, and both of you have misunderstood the point of it (if indeed there is a point to any thread ever).

The reason I started it (aside from boredom admittedly) was that people were already begining to include riders on how they expected us to go this season. "Well we can't be expected to compete when you consider etc etc". The whole "cards on the table" element of it was/is to give people a chance to spell out what they think would be a reasonable effort UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I mean finishing behind Man City two years ago would have been a laughable proposition which would surely have seen any manager sacked, whereas now obviously if it were to happen the circumstances are different.

So in answer to sgs you can wait until after christmas if you like (although why you'd want to wait until then to lay out what you think we should be looking to achieve under the circumstances this season as of now only you will know), and in answer to scott you don't even have to pontificate as to who's fault it is if you don't wish.

The thread just asks what is a decent effort. If we are fourth and twelve points back, is it a decent effor? What about third and eight points back? What about nowhere but we win a cup?

That's all it's about. A bit boring perhaps but not that sinister really.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:37 pm

bigmick wrote:With the greatest respect to the last two posters, there isn't any football on at the moment and if you find the subject boring don't read it. The irony is that both of you have commented on how pointless the thread is, and both of you have misunderstood the point of it (if indeed there is a point to any thread ever).

The reason I started it (aside from boredom admittedly) was that people were already begining to include riders on how they expected us to go this season. "Well we can't be expected to compete when you consider etc etc". The whole "cards on the table" element of it was/is to give people a chance to spell out what they think would be a reasonable effort UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I mean finishing behind Man City two years ago would have been a laughable proposition which would surely have seen any manager sacked, whereas now obviously if it were to happen the circumstances are different.

So in answer to sgs you can wait until after christmas if you like (although why you'd want to wait until then to lay out what you think we should be looking to achieve under the circumstances this season as of now only you will know), and in answer to scott you don't even have to pontificate as to who's fault it is if you don't wish.

The thread just asks what is a decent effort. If we are fourth and twelve points back, is it a decent effor? What about third and eight points back? What about nowhere but we win a cup?

That's all it's about. A bit boring perhaps but not that sinister really.

Fair enough mate, i'm just being a grumpy git! I dunno what it is but I can't get excited about the footy this season, at least not like I usually am. I can't entirely put my finger on why, I think it's coz deep down I know we're not gonna win it this year + all the ongoing shi...te with the owners which seems to rumble on for ever and ever.

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:53 pm

I agree with your previous observations on the Champions League particularly Scott, and I think many more fans will begin to see it this way over the next few seasons. Lets be honest, the "group stage" is purely a sham for the big clubs to hoover up some cash, nothing more and nothing less. Now I know when you say that on here people instantly jump on you and accuse you of "Rafa bashing" but now you've said it first, I can safely proceed

.

The truth of the matter is, if you can't get through the group into the last 16 it's a desperately poor effort idf you are any of the English clubs, Barcelona or madrid, Bayern Munich etc. I say this fully in the knowledge that we are looking slightly dodgy (although I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever we will qualify), but if we don't then Rafa needs his erse kicking to absolutely fair. Anyways I agree on that one, I can't be bothered with the whole thing. It's simply a cynical cash gathering excercise and surely must be on its last legs in its current form. As to how we'll go in it, well we ought to at least reach the last 16 obviously, and I'd think a minimum for a decent effort is last 8. from there you've got to win 3 ties to win it, and as we've proven from both sides of the coin over the years, you need plenty of luck and the odd moment of inspiration. We obviously aren't the best team in it, but you never know as we've won it before under much worse circumstances.

As for the league, I share your pessimism as far as us winning it is concerned. I don't think we will, although it's fair to say that as of now we still can (just about). I do though think the league is interesting this season, because the Mancs aren't as strong but are 'bluffing" their way to three points much of the time, Arsenal IMHO are bizarrely stronger than last season despite selling two of their best players, and the Man City project is fascinating.

I do think we'll go well in the domestic cups though for a couple of reasons. Firstly we are long overdue a decent effort, secondly Rafa has a habit of doing just enough to keep the wolves from the door, and thirdly I think within the next few weks it will become fairly apparent that they represent much the best opportunity for us to win something. Despite what many say though, it's exciting being in Cup finals even if it is the Carling Cup. I am absolutely certain that if we beat the Mancs in the final most people (including me in all probability) would forget at least for while we only just got fourth in the league.

by **Scottbot** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:09 pm

bigmick wrote:As for the league, I share your pessimism as far as us winning it is concerned. I don't think we will, although it's fair to say that as of now we still can (just about). I do though think the league is interesting this season, because the Mancs aren't as strong but are 'bluffing" their way to three points much of the time, Arsenal IMHO are bizarrely stronger than last season despite selling two of their best players, and the Man City project is fascinating.

I do think we'll go well in the domestic cups though for a couple of reasons. Firstly we are long overdue a decent effort, secondly Rafa has a habit of doing just enough to keep the wolves from the door, and thirdly I think within the next few weks it will become fairly apparent that they represent much the best opportunity for us to win something. Despite what many say though, it's exciting being in Cup finals even if it is the Carling Cup. I am absolutely certain that if we beat the Mancs in the final most people (including me in all probability) would forget at least for while we only just got fourth in the league.

So long as we don't lose to the mancs and we can keep pounding the lesser teams we will still have a shot, I'm simply hoping we can be in touching distance and in with a shot when the really big games come around in March/April. We deffo need to win a couple of those 6 pointers with our rivals as we did last year. How young Aquillani's body deals with the physical premiership and how his mind deals with the immense pressure he will be under will prove key to how our season pans out, I feel sorry for the lad already. We also need (i'm sure) consistent improvement from Babel and Ngog because they will both have a role to play if we're to have a successful year.

Arsenal are a strange one but for the past few seasons it's always been about form for them. If they got off to a decent start (as they have) I always fancied them to do quite well and that's what we've seen. City are flying, I haven't visited the prem league thread for a good while but a lot of posters dismissed them this season as if they were some passing fad, big surprise people!

Coming back to the cups i'm desperate for a run in the FA Cup, partly because Europe has got a bit boring and also because it was such a big tournament growing up. I know it's all about the league but I'd love to see us win the cup this season and i'd love it to be against the mancs. 96 seems like a long long time ago!

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Cards on the table..... - What is a decent effort/season ?

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