Liverpool FC Forum

by **Tim LFC** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:40 pm

I'll say it again! Lucas seems to be better further up the pitch! Maybe Lucas should play behind Torres with Gerrard in CM? Idk but Lucas seems more comfortable up field.

by **Owzat** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:06 pm

Gotta say I think it's harsh to give Voronin a five considering he came closer to scoring than Torres. Whether he was fouled or it was a great tackle, that was all that stopped him getting us an undeserved point.

I disagree re Babel's selection, given the form of Benayoun last season and him being about the only playmaker we have of any kind - deep-lying or otherwise - I'd have put him in the starting line-up every time over Babel. I don't blame Babel for the result, just think that Rafa hasn't learned much at all.

Still, to put a positive spin on it, we didn't lose the title last season because of losing at WHL and it won't be the reason we don't win it this season. But the negative to take from this is how spudz made us look ordinary, and it was sickening their winner should come from what I thought was yet another needlessly conceded free-kick. We're not defending set-pieces well, how come we give so f in many of them away?

by **baldricks_cunning_plan** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:50 pm

Reina 9/10. The lad today was fantastic and without him we'd of been looking at 4 or 5, not just 2. Two he couldn't do a thing about either.

Johnson 6/10. One good run in 90 minutes along with some very disappointing defending. A typical Glen Johnson performance.

Carragher 5/10. Didn't look right but with a central midfield pairing giving the ball away, can hardly blame him.

Skrtel 6/10. Thought he was the better of the two today. Mopped up a lot early on and only Carra going for a ball he shouldn't of, knocked Marty.

Insua 7/10. Kept Lennon quiet for most of the match and did well defensively. Looked lost in the final third, but a defender is there to defend.

Kuyt 3/10. Wasn't in the game at all. Was brought off, too late in my opinion.

Lucas 2/10. Did nothing at all. Nothing, bar the odd breaking up of play.

Masch 1/10. Did less than Lucas and that's saying something.

Some bloke who was apparently our left winger for the day. Didn't see a footballer out there so can't rate him.

Gerrard 3/10. Didn't do anything, other than score the pen. But the service was non existent.

Torres 3/10. Far too much time on the ground but again the service wasn't there for him.

Benayoun 7/10. Did well and looked dangerous, shame he took too many touches on the odd occasion.

Ayala 6/10. Looked very assure at the back, nothing spectacular but didn't make any mistakes.

Voronin 5/10. Didn't do anything great in the short time he was on. Should have the ball well under control before the defender even got near him for the "penalty"

by **heimdall** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:34 am

Tim LFC wrote:I'll say it again! Lucas seems to be better further up the pitch! Maybe Lucas should play behind Torres with Gerrard in CM? Idk but Lucas seems more comfortable up field.

No I just don't rate Lucas at all, sorry. I do agree with your point about dropping Stevie into midfield but I would Benni in Stevies position, I really think that could work, then I'd maybe put Lucas out on the right if he has to play, just until Riera is fit again. But also how about playing soem of the kids Rafa, they cannot be worse than Babel ffs!!

by **GYBS** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:09 am

How can people rate luca lower than players like gerrard,masher and torres when he was better than them on the day

pepe - 8 outstanding saves

Johnson-7 decent debut - great attacking run for pen

carra -5 poor communication with skittles all match

Skrtel - 5 as above

Insua - 6 decent game

Babel - 1 no point him being there

Masher -4 very poor game from him - all over the place

Lucas 6 - some great tacking back prevented more goals and tried to get forward and create but no support

Kuyt 5 - quiet game from him

Gerrard 5 - quiet all game bar penalty

Torres 3 - non existant

Yossi - 7 creative and threatening

Voronin 6 looked dangerous and lively

Ayala 5 - decent cameo

by **aCe'** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:39 am

heimdall wrote:
Tim LFC wrote:I'll say it again! Lucas seems to be better further up the pitch! Maybe Lucas should play behind Torres with Gerrard in CM? Idk but Lucas seems more comfortable up field.

No I just don't rate Lucas at all, sorry. I do agree with your point about dropping Stevie into midfield but I would Benni in Stevies position, I really think that could work, then I'd maybe put Lucas out on the right if he has to play, just until Riera is fit again. But also how about playing soem of the kids Rafa, they cannot be worse than Babel ffs!!

If we drop Gerrard back to the middle we'll have to go with 2 upfront to compensate the Gerrard goals because anyone who would be playing his role would never score as many....

Our options if we did that? Funny one that but Kuyt upfront seems to be the best one, with Benny down the right... Kuyt as a RM in a 4-4-2 isnt any good .. the best thing about him is his positioning in attacking situations and the fact that he played as a RW in a 451 meant he had the freedom to take up more advanced positions knowing the 3 in the middle (plus FBs) would cover the width of the pitch behind him... in a 4-4-2 you'd be assigning him more responsibility to build up play down the flank and be more rigid in his positioning... safe to say you take out about 95% of his attacking game...

Anyways... this isnt the thread for it but fck it...

As for the ratings.. ill go with Baldrick on his ratings... only changes id make to them are.. Reina-8, Insua-6, Torres-2, Voronin-4....

by **GRAHAM01** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:54 am

i wanted to wait and see if i calmed down and upped my thinking of players untill i had seen the games again but if anything it has just made things worse for some of them

pepe - 8 the norm made some great saves

Johnson-7 very good, great run for the pen hope to see more of the same

carra -6 not the greatest ( like gybs said no communication )

Skrtel - 5 seemed lost after the smack off carra

Insua - 7 did ok attacked well enough

Babel - 2 just plain poor (don't want to add any more)

Masher -5 seemed to be running around a lot but never getting anywhere

Lucas - 6 thought he did well i could see he was trying but is his trying good enough.... no

Kuyt - 5 very much like mash running loads but nothing at the end

Gerrard - 6 very quiet and didn't seem to be able to get in to the game (the injury holding him back

)

Torres - 5 not a great performance from him seemed to go to ground to much

Yossi - 7 gave the team a bit of bite and a great spark should have started

Voronin - 5 no good enough in the time given almost got a pen but other than that nothing

Ayala - 6 did ok still think it may be a little early for him yet but did ok

by **Owzat** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:25 pm

Go with GYBS' so far, rightly giving the better ratings to Reina, Voronin and Yossi. Bit generous to Johnson, sure he made a run for the penalty but was he doing it all game? Wasn't that the first time he crossed the halfway line in the game?

Agree re Lucas, the problem is he is quietly effective at best and when the team plays badly it is the "usual suspects" getting all the stick while the superstars can be pants and just get brushed over. I'm a little surprised Kuyt is getting away with a fairly ordinary performance, but then was it as bad as others?

How much do people give the manager? Not much on the bench, didn't change much early enough as his first sub was ...................... 67th minute as f in usual. Voronin may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he put himself in the right areas and did more in his brief time on the pitch than most of the rest. What can he do in a dozen or so minutes? Benayoun came on and was arguably our best player bar Reina, but what can he do in 23 minutes when we'd been so ordinary for most of the preceding 67?

That is why my reply to who stands in the way of our title challenge was "Rafa".

by **sixbuster** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:53 pm

Outside of Reina(brilliant), Johnson(good) and Benayoun(very good) the rest were poor, they lacked something,seemed uninterested with no drive, a distinct lack of passion(which in my book is unforgiveable) I don't know what it was but there was definitely something badly wrong and was evident in pre-season as well.
Rafa must also ask questions of himself,how in the name of :censored:

did he pick Babel ahead of Benayoun?
We urgently need cover up front, compare the benches yesterday.
:help

by **Dazzer** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:05 pm

I am not going to give ratings as you all done pretty good job.I would like to add tho babel better pull his finger out no doubt he has some tallent but really tallent at this level on its own gets you no where.I would like to see him on the right more one as he don't have a left foot to speak of very poor on that side.

As for lucus he is poor.I say drop gerrard back and play Voronin up front he played ok when he came on and we looked alot better.Gerrard in this striker role isn't working for me , attacking midfielder behind 2 forwards is ok but he really is lost up there.More so with lack of support he was getting.

This is early season I know but I remember us being 2 times better then this start last year.We need a Striker so bad one we can count on baging us some goals.I know we have Torres but he looks so tired atm and out of idea's he needs a partner to take the stress of him.

by **Octsky** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:18 pm

i think u boys treated Babel too harshly.
I agreed he was rubbish in that game, but so was Torres, beside Babel has the quality to become great, he is fast and can dribble.
We saw a glimpse of him, when we trashed RM at home.
I have high hopes for him, i hope he dont disappoint us anymore.

by **metalhead** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:25 pm

Octsky wrote:i think u boys treated Babel too harshly.
I agreed he was rubbish in that game, but so was Torres, beside Babel has the quality to become great, he is fast and can dribble.
We saw a glimpse of him, when we trashed RM at home.
I have high hopes for him, i hope he dont disappoint us anymore.

At least Torres tried, he did some fantastic runs into the box, one in the first half when he skiped past 2 defenders and won some headers.

what did Babel do? everytime he got the ball he just lost it! he :censored:

off at every tackle, didn't even bother winning the ball in the air, just not up to it.

by **Tim LFC** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:40 pm

heimdall wrote:
Tim LFC wrote:I'll say it again! Lucas seems to be better further up the pitch! Maybe Lucas should play behind Torres with Gerrard in CM? Idk but Lucas seems more comfortable up field.

No I just don't rate Lucas at all, sorry. I do agree with your point about dropping Stevie into midfield but I would Benni in Stevies position, I really think that could work, then I'd maybe put Lucas out on the right if he has to play, just until Riera is fit again. But also how about playing soem of the kids Rafa, they cannot be worse than Babel ffs!!

This i agree with! I really want to see just some youngsters given a go for once! Seriously it can't hurt to try can it? Who knows we might find some genuine talent that can keep up with the PL standards. :eyebrow

by **Tim LFC** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:42 pm

Now that i think Babel couldn't do much but make mistakes. He was always surrounded by 2 or 3 Spurs players at a time FFS! So many he wasn't able to perform to the best of his ability because of the amount of Spurs players around him.

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:50 pm

Talking of player ratings, what happened to Kuyt against Tottenham? If it was a match up of the best two right midfielders in the Premiership, it seemed to me that theirs offered a wee bit more than ours

He's hardly been mentioned in dispatches, but he was taken off by Rafa which is saying something. Very strange.

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