Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:54 am

It feels different, it looks different, it moves different, because it is different.

But not that different. All that difference doesn't prevent this league from being the league with most foreign players ratio in the world, and here players with pace like Torres make it, but also players like Alonso make it. Or Luis Garcia. Or Fellaini. Or Arteta. Or Ivan Campo. Or Drogba. Or any of the dozens of players who make it here because football is football and it's not that diferent.

In the managerial front, big clubs bar Manchester United have offered aswell the charge of Manager to Portuguese, Spanish, French, Israeli and now Italian managers. Because football is football.

English football is genuine yes, has it's own features yes, has a great rythm yes, great physicality yes, but like Boskov said, football is football.

by **Judge** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:36 pm

GYBS wrote:I think one of the main reasons Ancellotti been brought in is for his record in CL - that is where their priority is this season

on paper scolari was brought in as he had a good record in the WORLD CUP

by **taff** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:01 pm

GYBS wrote:I think one of the main reasons Ancellotti been brought in is for his record in CL - that is where their priority is this season

I hope that Chelsea dont go 3 up against anybody then

by **GYBS** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:11 pm

Judge wrote:
GYBS wrote:I think one of the main reasons Ancellotti been brought in is for his record in CL - that is where their priority is this season

on paper scolari was brought in as he had a good record in the WORLD CUP

and the relevance is what ? Big phil had experience on the national stage but lacked at club level and many people thought it would be his downfall where ancellotti is vastly experienced in the cl which was one of the reasons he was hired and he himself has stated as such and it will be their priority this season . Ancellotti is prob the most successful manager in the cl league currently about in the last 7 years or so - two wins , final appearance plus many semi finals appearances .the two managers are vastly different in terms of experience and capability

by **taff** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:41 pm

I think Chelseas should be a threat and probably will be but I have a nagging thought that things aint wot they seem at the Bridge and the pressure to play attractive football and win the CL just may be out of their remit.

I will mention Rugby now as an example so apologies to those who hate the game. England won a world cup playing their way. It is boring and the romantics prefer Wales but England won the WORLD cup. However, they are obsessed by playing an attractive game even though its not in their genetic make up and this is where they come unstuck, when they try to be something they are not.

Chelsea would be favourites for the league IMO if they became Mourinho Chelsea. They wont win the hearts of the neutrals just trophies. Surely Newcastle is a great example of this idiotic obsession with attractive football. Whats attractive about losing. The 4-3, great game, but ultimately cost them the league. So my point is that Chelsea have a bee in their bonnet and they cant relax and be themselves with this pressure hanging over their heads.

Man Utd have lost their talisman. I know we lost Alonso but according to everybody we have been a one or two man team anyway. Now we know alonso was more important than that but our go to players i.e. Torres and Gerrard are still here. Man Utd didnt lose Carrick, they lost their go to player and it just doesnt feel right for them.

we on the other hand are a totally different team to those two. But our albatross is the league as we are totally obsessed by winning it and stopping the Mancs overtaking us. That is a burden on the club but we are not burdened by losing one of the worlds best players or having to win the league playing beach football. Our burden is the anxiety and booing if we dont destroy Stoke etc etc. We have to find the balance between having Alonso and Mash where we wont lose the game but we might not win it either to still looking like we wont lose but creating and scoring more goals, so as much as I loved Alonso Im not devestated by him going, in fact as we have seen with Benny and Kuyt, I am happy to see fringe players becoming stronger in the squad and hope that we see the emergence of Lucas this year.

Rafa undoubtedly has to adapt but we have to realise the way the team is going at the same time. Our manager is a control freak that annoys some fans with a draw but then delights us when we hammer a team like Man Utd. For better or for worse is the saying. Rafa likes control and sees how the team should play, we have seen this as well but we chose to ignore this when it doesnt go our way, well it will never be perfect so we have to accept this or demand a manager who will never make mistakes and win everything.

So, Bigmicks point about OTHER is a pertinent one as a big obstacle to the league is other. It could be those two idiots with the money or a breakdown between what Rafa wants and what the players do on the pitch which will then be interpreted as Rafa styling, gazelle etc etc for one faction or if you have a differing point of view, the players did not execute the game plan, missed chances, we only lost twice etc etc.

Chelse, Arsenal and the Mancs I see as threats, but the other threat I see is not spurs, everton Man city etc its us. We could have won last season but did not and this mental barrier has to be broken, whether its Rafa changing or the players finally clicking in to the masterplan. It could also be lack of funds to buy the attacking player we all agree we need. Although who can we spend 20 million plus on to sit on our bench and be second fiddle to the Torres Gerrard love fest. We could get a not so good player but we have those on the bench anyway.

Optimism is a strange word as it can imply naivety. Or as I would prefer to argue its a gradual improvement that ultimately leads to a belief in your ability to get the job done. We have progressed and for the first time during our progression under Rafa the opposition havent moved forward with us or even moved further than us. This is not luck for us but a reward for our work and progress and this is why I think we will win the league

by **ConnO'var** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:51 pm

bigmick wrote:Chelsea for me have too many variables, too many influences which could potentially become destructive. Drogba for instance can be a monster of a player, but if he falls out with the coach can become a hugely disruptive influence on a group of players. They have Ballack who is similarly an ego which is prone to land at any minute, as well as a coach who although coming with a big reputation, will have his humility severely tested.

By humility I mean that a coach who comes in from outside Britain must be prepared to forget much of what he has known as gospel in the past. He must become a student of football which is played at a pace and an intensity unmatched in the World. He must be willing to embrace a style and a rhythm which is different to anything he has encountered previously. For an Italian there is little point in bringing his Catanacio mentality, little to be gained by an "avoid defeat at all costs" mantra. Possession of the football is not the holy grail which it is on the continent, because teams are allowed to compete aggressively in their attemtps to regain it when it is lost. Similarly, teams commit many more players into attack in England as top class defenders which are left behind are able to challenge for the ball without the risk of being accused of murder.

It feels different, it looks different, it moves different, because it is different. Some players who would be bit part operators in these overseas managers Home countries assume an importance way beyond their raw ability. The Carraghers and the Terry's become key players as their heart and appetite for the battle overcome their lack of finesse and technical skill. Finally as we know only too well, what is needed to win the leagues is often very different. Our own manager has often referred to his successes at Valencia despite drawing many matches, he now knows beyond any doubt that in England fate judges harshly teams which can't convert draws into wins. In both of the last two seasons we have lost less than Manchester United and yet won nothing. In each of our managers first four seasons we stuck to a mantra of styling and gazelling, and unless you have a strength and a depth of squad far superior to ours or indeed anyone elses in England the negatives massively outweigh the positives.

It's hard to come to England and get the hang of things instantly, in your first season. For most managers it takes time, for some it takes a lot of time. Only a select band though can arrive and win consistently enough to life titles from day one, only the most special ones do that, and doubts from my perspective as to whether Ancellotti is truly in that category lead me to believe it'll be the Mancs who we'll have to get past when push comes to shove.

That's an excellent post mate and for me the Ancelloti factor will determine how well they do too.

The thing is, he has to be smart and not try the strict disciplinary approach of Scolari. With a team of big names, the club does not need a brilliant tactician or a disciplinary master. What they need is someone who can manage all the big egos as well as a superb man manager while making it clear who the boss is. That skill is very hard to find. Oh.... and he better be able to communicate effectively and not let language become a barrier.

There are only 3 managers in recent times that I can think of who have done this well.... one of them is at Inter.... another is back at the helm of Russia and the last is the current Spanish National Team manager (his name escapes me now) who did a sterling job at Real Madrid but still got sacked..... what a joke of a club. If they had stuck with him, it would have heralded an age where the club would have been most successful in their entire history, IMO.

I don't know enough of this Ancelloti bloke's methods but it certainly is going to be interesting to see how it all pans out for them. I hope that they self destruct but then again, I suspect, so would most of us.

by **stmichael** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:51 pm

Man U's midfield is looking like a police line-up these days. You've got the ageing Scholes who is more of a liability than an asset these days. Giggs, despite his bigging-up last season is a declining force, though still has a good head on him. Nani's out for a bit with a bung shoulder and flatters to decieve. Anderson is no Roy Keane, for which we should be grateful. Hargreaves is perenially injured. Valencia may do well, but cannot replace Ronaldo. Fletcher is a useful utility player, but nothing more. Carrick is a good player. Park Ji-Sung is a tryer, and chips in with a few, and one of the few players of theirs that I can tolerate.

by **lakes10** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:38 pm

heimdall wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Chelsea but if man city fire up there will be no stopping them.

I think you forgot the smiley
Man City??? under Hughes they will never win anything, when Maureen takes over for next season then they might have a chance.

its no joke mate, if they get things right it would not matter if mr bean was the manager they would still be a big danger.

by **Madmax** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:51 pm

stmichael wrote:Man U's midfield is looking like a police line-up these days. You've got the ageing Scholes who is more of a liability than an asset these days. Giggs, despite his bigging-up last season is a declining force, though still has a good head on him. Nani's out for a bit with a bung shoulder and flatters to decieve. Anderson is no Roy Keane, for which we should be grateful. Hargreaves is perenially injured. Valencia may do well, but cannot replace Ronaldo. Fletcher is a useful utility player, but nothing more. Carrick is a good player. Park Ji-Sung is a tryer, and chips in with a few, and one of the few players of theirs that I can tolerate.

And if they still win the premiership than i really don't know what we have to do in order to remove them off their perch.
Last season was the best chance to win the league but i feel this season is a better one.

by **aCe'** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:13 pm

To me, any success ManUtd could potentially have this season depends on Wayne Rooney and how early or late it takes him to hit top form... One of the best players in the world to me and if they can get things going through him they'll be hard to stop yet again.. Despite all the weakening theyve done by selling ronaldo and to a much lesser extent Tevez, they still have what it takes in terms of personnel to go out and put up a challenge and perhaps win it...

They still have the best back 4 in the league, arguably the best goalkeeper in the league last year (injured for the start of the season and so is his backup so that could be a plus for sides lining up against them early on), they have a set of midfielders who offer different options going forward, they have an excellent forward line, and most important of all is that -despite losing their main one- they still have a bunch of match winners in that squad... will be interesting to see how the likes of Nani, Berbatov and especially Rooney go about this season....

by **Sabre** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:16 pm

*sigh*

by **aCe'** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:19 pm

Sabre wrote:*sigh*

whats on your mind Pablo ?

by **Sabre** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:23 pm

How on earth if they had the best keeper, players like Carrick that offer more than our negative midfielders, the great Shrek III of England, did they get only 4 points more than us?

Especially considering how many things wrong you did find in our team last season.

Look Ace' denying that Manchester United have great CB is denying the obvious. But considering Van Der Saar better than Reina, or anything they have in the middle better than our last year midfield triangle, is denying merits to our team.

Quite simply, if there are many things wrong in our team, and so many positive things in our archrivals, their difference of points should have been higher.

So, where are you wrong, Manolo? Are we better than you give us credit for, or perhaps Manchester United aren't as fantastic as you like?

Or maybe, there's such difference between the two squads, but Rafa is a genius? tell me Manolo, tell me.

by **The Good Yank** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:29 pm

I voted Chelsea, and I say that thinking that they will win the Prem this season. I have a terrible feeling that we will find a struggle to finish fourth. Yes Glen Johnson was a good signing, if it were paired with a couple of other top notch signings. Instead it was followed by what I feel are departures that will be too great to overcome. No depth at the back, No depth in the middle, No depth on the wings, No depth up front. It's going to be a long season.

by **heimdall** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:32 pm

lakes10 wrote:
heimdall wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Chelsea but if man city fire up there will be no stopping them.

I think you forgot the smiley
Man City??? under Hughes they will never win anything, when Maureen takes over for next season then they might have a chance.

its no joke mate, if they get things right it would not matter if mr bean was the manager they would still be a big danger.

Yes but without a good manager a team can't be right, if it was that simple then it wouldn't matter who the manager was as long as you had expensive players and a team like pompey would have carried on playing well after Arry left and Adams took over.

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