Liverpool FC Forum

by **Greavesie** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:33 pm

the CCTV shows little to feck all mate

by **lakes10** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:35 pm

Greavesie wrote:the CCTV shows little to feck all mate

i show what he is saying is not the way it happend.

the other clips of cctv that can not be used might have backed him up, its strange that they some in and booted other stuff out.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:24 pm

lakes10 wrote:looks like we got the cctv wrong, Stevie has just said in court that he was the frist to punch?

"It was very difficult at the time to explain to police why I did throw that first punch.

"We were arguing and I told the police I felt that Marcus came towards me and that's why I raised my arms.

"I firmly believed Marcus came towards me to hit me."

the cctv dont show it that way

I think you've read it wrong mate, he means the first punch he threw in anticipation of the perceived threat from McGee. He wasn't the guy who came in with the elbow (the bloke who made the first move) - that was Doran.

The Times:

Asked how he felt now, the footballer added: “I am certainly mistaken in thinking he was coming towards me to throw punches at me. Now I know, obviously, he had been struck, reacted and thought the strike was by me and he came into me and that’s when I reacted.

“I am sorry about the whole incident.”

----------------------------------------------------------

It's plausible enough all things considered, more than enough to instill doubt in the minds of the jurors. If you look at the tape, when Stevie goes up to him, McGee gets off his stool and squares up to him - evidence of his aggressive demeanour - and a possible precursor to his reaction to Doran moments later. Stevie attested to this today, 'Very quickly he came off the bar stool and was in my face right by me'.

by **lakes10** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:07 pm

FACTS ARE FACTS,

Stevie could have walked away and forgot about the CD stuff, instead he was the one to carry it on later, he was the one to walk up to the guy again.

In the eyes of most courts the blame wil come down to Stevie.

by **metalhead** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:18 pm

lakes10 wrote:FACTS ARE FACTS,

Stevie could have walked away and forgot about the CD stuff, instead he was the one to carry it on later, he was the one to walk up to the guy again.

In the eyes of most courts the blame wil come down to Stevie.

Hence, he is fecked

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:36 pm

I don't think stevie's lawyers would be dumb enough to risk being found guilty if they didn't know he could get off. either that or for some reason they felt there was little to no benefit to pleading guilty, which I would find odd.

by **Salty Sock** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:41 pm

Greavesie wrote:
s@int wrote:I don't really see how you can use the "I believed he was about to hit me" as a defence or surely everyone involved in a dust up would use it.

Maybe I could try that defence on the Mods? I believed he was about to post an abusive post so I posted one in self defence

yeh but is it right to have to wait for a potential attacker to have to spark you before you can do anything to prevent the attack (that will have already started)?

it all hinges on reasonable conduct in the circumstances given. Personally I think it would be ridiculous to have to wait to be attacked before attacking back. Even then its still a 'my word against yours' scenario

for example if someones shouting and threatening me with a brick in his hand its perfectly reasonable for me to anticipate this attack or be put under a sufficient threat to believe an attack is imminent (even though he might have no intention of hitting me). I should rightly be able to diffuse the situation by hitting him first. only the amount of force reasonable necessary tho. such as decking him and then walking away, not decking him, tying him up hitting him a few more

I love criminal law so I could literally go on and on but I'll leave it there

There is such thing as 'just cause' for such a circumstance, and further where there is foreseeable danger one may act in self-preservation of one's health and embodiment. It is all categorized under self-defence; the prevalent obstacle in Stevie's way is that he pleaded not guilty initially, and now has a backdraft story of inconsistencies. That will most inevitably be the thorn in his side that discredits his word and testimony in court.

Eitherway, we must understand that being a millionaire, Stevie will have some pretty decent lawyers as compared to Mr DJ, and believing to be sure me, we can have it that Stevie can almost buy his way out of this one guilty or not.

Good input guys, we need to rally support in the desertifying times~

by **dawson99** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:42 pm

Salty Sock speaks sense people

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:43 pm

GOBSHITES ARE GOBSHITES,

That isn't the point of law, Lakes, that's just your own appraisal of events and why you think he's blameworthy. FWIW, I agree that he shouldn't have taken the issue any further, left it and walked away, but that's besides the point (he may have been a bit narked off, but that's different from approaching the guy with intent to commit an affray --hence why the defence QC raised the point about past encounters with bitters/Manc's during which he's recieved insults and where he has normally tried to smooth things over, rather than going in hell bent on knocking them down - precedent favours his case). The point at stake here though is whether or not he feared being hit by McGee - who had just been hit by Doran - and that sounds plausible enough from what we can gather from the tape and witness statements. Ultimately, it's irrelevent as to whether you think he should have done this or that, he has to justify his interpretation of Mcgee's demeanour (that he feared he was about to be hit in that very moment and in light of the preceding tiff) and whether his response to that perceived threat was reasonable i.e. whether his actions were excessive, or whether he merely did enough to destabilise the threat as it were. My reading of the latter point is that it was all over very quickly and only one punch connected, which doesn't seem to indicate excessive force.

by **lakes10** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:51 pm

LFC2007 wrote:GOBSHITES ARE GOBSHITES,

That isn't the point of law, Lakes, that's just your own appraisal of events and why you think he's blameworthy. FWIW, I agree that he shouldn't have taken the issue any further, left it and walked away, but that's besides the point (he may have been a bit narked off, but that's different from approaching the guy with intent to commit an affray --hence why the defence QC raised the point about past encounters with bitters/Manc's during which he's recieved insults and where he normally tries to smooth things over, rather than going in hell bent on knocking him down - precedent favours his case). The point at stake here though is whether or not he feared being hit by McGee - who had just been hit by Doran - and that sounds plausible enough from what we can gather from the tape and witness statements. Ultimately, it's irrelevent as to whether you think he should have done this or that, he has to justify his interpretation of Mcgee's demeanour (that he feared he was about to be hit in that very moment and in light of the preceding tiff) and whether his response to that perceived threat was reasonable i.e. whether his actions were excessive, or whether he did enough to destabilise the threat as it were. My reading of the latter point is that it was all over very quickly and only one punch connected, which doesn't seem to indicate excessive force.

as you know in my job i get loads sent to me by the court for Anger Managment. a lot of them have done the same thing as he has done, it still dont make it right. The CPS would not have put this case to a court if they did not feel he had done something wrong.

my own view

He was in the wrong.
He knows who he is and what he means to loads of fans and a Team, he should always be as clean as clean can be, yes it not nice living a life like that but when you get the money for being that way you need to be seen fit for the job.

by **Salty Sock** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:52 pm

lakes10 wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:GOBSHITES ARE GOBSHITES,

That isn't the point of law, Lakes, that's just your own appraisal of events and why you think he's blameworthy. FWIW, I agree that he shouldn't have taken the issue any further, left it and walked away, but that's besides the point (he may have been a bit narked off, but that's different from approaching the guy with intent to commit an affray --hence why the defence QC raised the point about past encounters with bitters/Manc's during which he's recieved insults and where he normally tries to smooth things over, rather than going in hell bent on knocking him down - precedent favours his case). The point at stake here though is whether or not he feared being hit by McGee - who had just been hit by Doran - and that sounds plausible enough from what we can gather from the tape and witness statements. Ultimately, it's irrelevent as to whether you think he should have done this or that, he has to justify his interpretation of Mcgee's demeanour (that he feared he was about to be hit in that very moment and in light of the preceding tiff) and whether his response to that perceived threat was reasonable i.e. whether his actions were excessive, or whether he did enough to destabilise the threat as it were. My reading of the latter point is that it was all over very quickly and only one punch connected, which doesn't seem to indicate excessive force.

as you know in my job i get loads sent to me by the court for Anger Managment. a lot of them have done the same thing as he has done, it still dont make it right. The CPS would not have put this case to a court if they did not feel he had done something wrong.

my own view

He was in the wrong.
He knows who he is and what he means to loads of fans and a Team, he should always be as clean as clean can be, yes it not nice living a life like that but when you get the money for being that way you need to be seen fit for the job.

This is true, he has a responsibility of upholding his image to the public and staying true to his fans that idolize him. With great power comes great responsibility, so if he is in the wrong it is definitely a sad day and he has let not only himself down, but the fans and those who looking up to him.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:56 pm

The truth is only he knows whether he acted in self-defence, the rest of us - Jury included - are left to form our own judgments. The only difference is the Jury are supposed to draw on points of law over merely (or predominantly) their own intuition.

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:58 pm

Drama queens , the lot of yer . The simple fact is that the lad is a manc and so derserves a good hiding for that aloan . Twas a scuffle in an ale house that happens 100's of times a week up and down the country . Handbags is all it was , stevie will get a slap on the wrists.

by **we all dream...** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:10 pm

To me it looks like his mate smashed the guy with a very cowerdly forearm / elbow smash to the face followed by a couple of upper cuts from Gerrard as he's on his way down. Doesn't look good but like you say Igor it is a pub scrap, fight, handbags and for anyone else it wouldn't go anywhere. I've been involved in worse ON a rugby field ans seen similar on a professional Rugby Field.

by **Salty Sock** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:13 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:Drama queens , the lot of yer . The simple fact is that the lad is a manc and so derserves a good hiding for that aloan . Twas a scuffle in an ale house that happens 100's of times a week up and down the country . Handbags is all it was , stevie will get a slap on the wrists.

This is the attitude that needs to change. It's counter-productive to our spirit and the honour we serve. The guy is another human being, irrespective of what team he chooses to support. Like any pool fanatic, I despise Man Utd as our bitter rivals, but I maintain my belief that so what you thinking, without Man utd you would choose to hate another team? I love to hate them in a friendly competitive way. Your attitude breeds violence and spreads a disgusting loathing for other human beings that love the SAME SPORT AS YOU. It's football, I'm a fan of this sport like you all, and more so of pool. It's this kind of talk that riles me up and nothing riles me up easily I'll have you badgering well know Queen Mister. Drop the hate and give something positive to the world, I have no room for violence in my heart, despite what some of ye's having it at me for.
Go to bed and think about it

Liverpool FC Forum

Stevies trial - found not guilty of affray

Who is online