Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:06 am

Rafa's come out and blamed our failings on Torres' injury. It's RAFA's fault there's no plan B, no adequate cover. It's the price you pay for being heavily reliant on one or two key players.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7919729.stm

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez says his side would be closer to Manchester United in the title race were it not for injuries to Fernando Torres.

The Spanish striker will be missing again with an ankle injury when Liverpool host Sunderland on Tuesday.

"The worst thing has been the injuries to Torres," said Benitez. "He has been our main striker and scored a lot of goals for us last season.

"And this season could have been totally different with him."

Torres has been sidelined with hamstring and ankle problems and has played just 15 league games this season, scoring eight goals.

Liverpool have taken just 10 points from seven games in 2009 and fell seven points behind Manchester United, having played a game more, with a 2-0 defeat at Middlesbrough on Saturday.

They remain a potent force in Europe, however, and are on course for the last eight of the Champions League after a superb 1-0 win at Real Madrid last week.

"The title was difficult before, it is more difficult now," said Benitez. "What we have to do is take our chances, and that is something that has been the same problem the whole season.

"Maybe if Torres had not been injured so much things would be different, but we cannot change the situation now. Everybody has players who get injured.

"Since the Champions League win in Madrid we have had some problems, several players have been injured, among other things."

Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard has only just returned after a hamstring injury and Benitez admits his squad lacks the depth of some rivals.

The Reds started the match against Boro with young striker Nabil El Zhar up front, but he was replaced in the second half by French teenager David Ngog after failing to make an impact.

"At this stage of the season when every point is important, having your best players available is the most important thing because they have the experience," he said.

"It is not fair to expect young players to come in and change games, that is when you need your more important players to bring something more to the side.

"We must keep going in the title race, to try to win each game as it comes along.

"Now we have the opportunity against Sunderland to do things right, to be able to approach the Real Madrid second leg next week with confidence. We have to remain positive.

"We have learned we must be more clinical, to finish games when you have chances.

"But we played with anxiety at Middlesbrough, we gave the ball away too easily with simple passes. These are things we have to improve if we are going to fight for the title."

And Benitez insists that his side are improving overall, despite seeing their early lead in the title race overturned.

"We must not forget that our league performance is better than last season," said the Spaniard.

"Still we have to improve. Yes, we have had key players injured and maybe that could have cost us four or five points.

"In this title race that would be a massive difference. We are in a good position but we could be in a much better position.

"We are now rated in the Uefa rankings as the best team in Europe over the last five years - that underlines how we have done in those seasons.

"But we must go forward for the rest of the season, and in the future. The squad is good, but there are too many games when things go wrong and that makes a massive difference."

We were fine until January, funny how Torres missing the whole of December (and most of October) wasn't key then.

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:12 am

Yep, you can't at the same time admit Torres' and Gerrard's influence are huge, and then saying their absences have nothing to do with our problems.

It's ridiculous to suggest that you won't miss your world class players. But there are patterns of posting that won't give a break to the manager.

Liverpool are not a one man team, but you have world class players for a reason, the reason is that they give you points where others do not.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:22 am

Liverpool Scoring With/Without Torres

With Torres : 127 goals in 72 games (1.76 goals/game)
Without Torres : 55 goals in 28 games (1.96 goals/game)

With Torres (Premiership) : 82 goals in 48 games (1.71 goals/game)
Without Torres (Premiership) : 28 goals in 17 games (1.65 goals/game)

Premiership Goals - By Game 27

07/08

Liverpool : 46 goals in 27 games (1.70 goals/game)
Torres : 15 goals in 24 appearances (0.625 goals/app)

08/09

Liverpool : 43 goals in 27 games (1.59 goals/game)
Torres : 8 goals in 15 appearances (0.533 goals/app)

Torres has played six of Liverpool's nine Champions League games so far this season. Despite our reliance on Torres, we're only three goals worse off in the Premiership than last season despite Torres scoring seven less goals. Maybe not so heavily reliant on him as we all think/thought, but the lack of adequate reserves has found us out - in terms of making the step up for a title challenge. I don't think there was any way we'd win the league with one decent striker, I don't believe any side has even if more goals come from one (van noodleboy, Henry, Drogba etc) . Keane may not have been ideal but he chipped in five league goals, Kuyt has also chipped in from the right. It's all very well Rafa blaming an injury, all sides have injuries, it's the ones that cope better with them that come good.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:28 am

Sabre wrote:Yep, you can't at the same time admit Torres' and Gerrard's influence are huge, and then saying their absences have nothing to do with our problems.

It's ridiculous to suggest that you won't miss your world class players. But there are patterns of posting that won't give a break to the manager.

Liverpool are not a one man team, but you have world class players for a reason, the reason is that they give you points where others do not.

Our problems are that we are heavily reliant on Torres and Gerrard and that's down to the squad which BENITEZ assembled. To think a one man team will win the title is naive, without Ronaldo the mancs aren't the same, but they have an immense support cast of Vidic, Tevez, Berbatov etc

I don't expect us to have quite such an array of stars, but it's Rafa's fault that our supporting cast of strikers is so youthful, inexperienced and not up to it. And was it not Rafa who decided not to replace Keane claiming the players he's now saying

"It is not fair to expect young players to come in and change games, that is when you need your more important players to bring something more to the side."

Make your mind up Rafa, you claimed we didn't need to replace Keane and now you're fessing up that we did. The manager has had his "breaks", five seasons to build a title challenging squad, £40m in the summer squandered and excuses pouring from him and his faithful crew. Will those who defend Rafa unrelentingly please f off with him when he goes to Real Madrid

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:35 am

Yes, IMHO, Rafa could have done a better job than replacing the likes of Crouch with Ngog. That's not a stronger upfront, I'll give you that. I also admit Keane's management has been a failure.

But it's undeniable that the *several* injuries of Torres and the last one of Gerrard have a price to be paid. Undeniable in my book, they're players that decide matches.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:46 am

Sabre wrote:But it's undeniable that the *several* injuries of Torres and the last one of Gerrard have a price to be paid. Undeniable in my book, they're players that decide matches.

You're persisting in missing or ignoring the point, the fact that we only have two players and they are key is down to RAFAEL BENITEZ. Does he seriously expect neither of them to ever get injured?

Put all your eggs in one basket and this is what happens, Torres and Gerrard played 98 games last season between them (out of 59 games so 83% of the games they could have played), so even then they missed games. We finished fourth, eleven points behind the champions. This season they've played 60 games between them out of 41 (73%) and funnily enough we're better off in the league but still not in the race.

We're not scoring enough goals, we weren't even with Torres playing a lot last season. We don't have enough "players that decide matches", you'll maybe argue that's lack of funding, I'll say it's down to poor management and chopping and changing strikers with the ones signed no better than the ones signed and/or sold.

You should be Rafa's PA, you've plenty of excuses for him you could almost be his mouthpiece

by **bigmick** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:02 am

I think you're both right, or both wrong if you fancy a barney

Obviously, Torres and Gerrard being injured this season hasn't helped, and in that sense Rafa is statign the glaringly obvious. Equally, any team in the World, no matter how good they were would miss those two.

That said, although he's curiously been attacking me recently I generally do agree with Owzats posts, at least the ones I can understand. The fact we are sooo reliant on either Gerrard or Torres to score a goal is the result of two things. Firstly signing too may average players, and secondly not playing with anywhere near enough fluency and attacking verve. Both of those things are Rafa's fault, pure and simple.

Also, it is absolutely on the money to keep banging on about the decision to sell Keane without a replacement. It looked like an absolutely ridiculous decision at the time, and it does even more now. In fairness to Sabre, he called it so there and then, as he equally quickly came out on the side of common sense with regards playing Skyrtel at right back.

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:04 am

Owzat wrote:
Sabre wrote:
You should be Rafa's PA, you've plenty of excuses for him you could almost be his mouthpiece

You're too boring to start a fight with. If at least it was some fun like when I discussed with Bam...

So ok, you're right.

by **zarababe** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:56 pm

Torres may be out for the Real 2nd leg too !

by **Greavesie** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:33 pm

zarababe wrote:Torres may be out for the Real 2nd leg too !

please be lying

by **Madmax** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:39 pm

Greavesie wrote:
zarababe wrote:Torres may be out for the Real 2nd leg too !

please be lying

could be but i feel rafa will make it his priority to try and get the fella ready for real.. champions league is our main hope for glory this season so i would want a fit torres ready against real.

by **zarababe** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:03 pm

Greavesie wrote:
zarababe wrote:Torres may be out for the Real 2nd leg too !

please be lying

I think 'be praying' he is fit, is the order of the day

by **Raffmaker** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:22 am

dont worry too much.

we need Carra sharp at the back. all defense needs to be razor sharp. if we dont concede we dont lose.! simple as!

by **europian-kings** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:25 am

Raffmaker wrote:dont worry too much.

we need Carra sharp at the back. all defense needs to be razor sharp. if we dont concede we dont lose.! simple as!

This is true.

Although Real Madrid will be coming at us trying to get the goals which will open it up for us to catch them on the break.

Torres and his speed is ideal for that to try and nick a goal or two.

by **Ciggy** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:26 am

Is a major doubt again...............

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