Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:24 pm

I think once we see Voronin come back from his loan spell we'll see the real Voronin, until then we make do with Keane.

by **RedBen** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:39 pm

LFC2007 wrote:I think once we see Voronin come back from his loan spell we'll see the real Voronin, until then we make do with Keane.

I'm not completely sure, but anyway...

by **roberto green** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:57 pm

Voronin vs Keane....lol

Voronin looks more like a fat biker than a professional footballer,

Voronin was with us for a season, Keane has been with us for 3 months.

Voronin has done nothing in the EPL,Keane doesn't need to prove himself in the EPL.

Voronin is SH!T, Keane is class

Just wait and see!

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:13 pm

Was it just me or was there a bit of a "Cat's Meow" flavour to the thread opener?

by **GOAT_2.0** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:28 pm

bigmick wrote:Owz, Keane has started slowly. If what we are seeing now is the best he is capable of, we have been ripped off big style and have overpaid by about 12 million quid I reckon. I don't think though that when people kind of will him to do well (which they do) they are endulging in some kind of self-delusion, I just think that they recognise that the moeny we have paid for him represents a massive investment by the club and manager, and as such it'd be quite nice of it kind of paid off.

With the greatest of respect though, comparing Voronin to Keane in any sense other than length of hair is flying in the face of sensibility. Although I stated in my post on the keane thread that the Irishman and Torres were "by a distance" our best front two, it could sensibly be argued that our previous front one was more potent I guess (I wouldn't agree with the argument but it at least has some foundation). Equally, there is probably more than a poster or two on here who would argue that Kuyt and Torres are a better pairing than Keane and Torres. Once again I disagree, but this one is an interesting one and not one which can be dismissed lightly. Kuyt and Torres as a pairing doesn't really work for me, but it does for Torres (which is more important after all) in the sense that Kuyt stays well out of the way, unlike Keane on one or two embarassing occasions. Equally, Kuyt spends much of his time actively trying to make space for his strike partner (I actually think that when he plays up top this is by an absolute country mile his strong point), whereas Keane uses more mental energy thinking of ways in which he personally can influence the game. Also, based on very recent records Kuyts scoring record is superior even discounting the fact that he often hasn't started as a striker.

My memory is a bit longer though than a couple of weeks though, and I remember well the tortured expession on Dirks face when he ballooned chances over the bar, when he crossed rather than shot away to Blackburn with seconds left etc etc. His confidence has been a long time coming back, but it is back now. Far better in my eyes to leave him on the right where he can legitimately go three quarters of a season without scoring a goal but contribute in other directions. He is playing the very best football of his Liverpool career right now, leave him where he is and let Keane become the player we all know he can.

Anyhow in conclusion i think we can argue whether we should have stuck to the 4-5-1. We can argue whether we'd simply be better off with Kuyt up front instead of Keane. We won't though have an argument that Keane has been disappointing so far as we all know he has, nor however will there be much enthusiasm for comparing the Irishman to Voronin I shouldn't think. There simply is no football comparison.

overpayed by 12 million, I'd offer you about £4.80 for him

Nah he hasn't been that bad

by **andy_g** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:21 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Was it just me or was there a bit of a "Cat's Meow" flavour to the thread opener?

i don't know, i didn't read it

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:06 am

GOAT_2.0 wrote:
bigmick wrote:Owz, Keane has started slowly. If what we are seeing now is the best he is capable of, we have been ripped off big style and have overpaid by about 12 million quid I reckon.

overpayed by 12 million, I'd offer you about £4.80 for him

Nah he hasn't been that bad

Just in the itnersts of clarity so I don't get pulled up for it at a later date, I don't actually think we have paid 12 million over the odds for Keane. I said that if we are currently seeing the best he is capable of etc etc.

I don't think we are anywhere near seeing the best he is capable of though, and I've said a few times I think he'll turn out to be a very good signing, even if we did pay absolutely top dollar.

by **Jimmy the Weasel** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:17 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Was it just me or was there a bit of a "Cat's Meow" flavour to the thread opener?

Seemed to me that it was written mainly to that effect!

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:23 pm

On-loan Hertha Berlin striker Andriy Voronin has revealed he is keen to join the Bundesliga club on a permanent basis.

The 29-year-old Ukraine international joined Hertha from Liverpool on a season-long loan in the summer and has scored three goals in 13 league appearances so far.

Voronin struggled to make his mark during his single season in the Premier League, and has now confirmed he does not want to leave Hertha when his loan spell ends in June.

"I'm getting along fine at Hertha," he told Bild. "I've been well received by the players and there are no problems with the coaching staff and the manager.

"Things are also going well with the football.

"The most important thing is what Hertha want. If the club really are interested in me staying, I'm sure we'll be able to find a way."

by **sgs** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:58 am

Never thought I would say this, but dude looked very sharp throughout. Just goes to show how football can be such a situational thing..

===============
Arminia 1-1 Hertha: Voronin strike not enough

Hertha Berlin missed the chance to go top of the Bundesliga table as they were held to a draw away to Arminia Bielefeld tonight.
Andrei Voronin put the visitors in the lead with a powerful shot from a tight angle in the 13th minute before Artur Wichniarek netted his 12th goal of the season to snatch a point for Arminia.

Hertha remain in the second place, one point behind leaders Hoffenheim.

The visitors could not have asked for a better start when Voronin caught the entire Bielefeld defence napping early on.

A long goal-kick from Jaroslav Drobny landed directly at the feet of the Ukrainian, who took the ball deep in to the area before firing home an angled shot from the right.

The ball bounced before beating Arminia stopper Dennis Eilhoff, who was slow to react.

Voronin almost doubled the lead six minutes later after Markus Schuler had lost possession. A long pass sent the man on loan from Liverpool clear, but his attempted lob came back off the bar.

The hosts created few chances of their own, Schuler and Thorben Marx trying their luck after a neat build-up but failing to get the better of Drobny.

Arminia drew level five minutes before the break, though, when Radim Kucera sent over a long cross towards Wichniarek, who, having shaken off his marker, nodded the ball home from close range.

The home side were the better team in the second half and Chris Katongo headed a fine cross from Rudiger Kauf directly into Drobny4s arms before shooting wide after being played in by Jonas Kamper.

Hertha looked content to hold on for the draw, but missed two great chances to regain the lead.

A flick from Voronin put Maximilian Nicu in the clear, but Eilhoff got to the ball in the nick of time.

Then, a minute before the end, Nicu delivered a cross from deep inside the area on the right which deflected off the foot of a Arminia defender and looked to be heading in, but Eilhoff managed to claw the ball away to keep the scores level.

My" target="_blank">http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?....Webpage

by **Owzat** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:49 am

Bad Bob wrote:Was it just me or was there a bit of a "Cat's Meow" flavour to the thread opener?

Pointing out that, with all the BS floating around when Keane was struggling and the "give him time, he'll come good" or "he's not being treated fairly" BS, that I'd remind people how little of those kind words were offered to Voronin. In fact people are rather kneejerk in their view of Voronin, dismissing him as a poor player when he played LESS minutes than Keane did for Liverpool.

Keane £20.3m - 7 goals in 1801 mins (257 mins/goal)
Voronin £00.0m - 6 goals in 1586 mins (264 mins/goal)

Not great granted, but since he was injured smack in the middle of his time here and scored two goals in his last five appearances (and ironically 264 mins), I'd say he deserved more time - especially as we've been light a striker all season, we're now light by two.

I'm guessing not much has changed and people will still slate Voronin, and say "get rid", even though he's no worse than Keane was and cost nothing.

Did we make a £12m loss on Keane? He was worth maybe £8m-£12m on a good season, so we sold him for maybe what we should have paid. It's good to know that minimising our losses is more important than maximising our chances of winning the league (by having enough strikers in the squad) You have to wonder if Keane had been used as a sub in some of these draws in January, whether we mightn't have got a goal or two to convert to wins.

by **heimdall** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:18 pm

Can't believe I'm saying this but why don't we get him back, just as cover? Is it possible or is he loaned out till the end of the season?

by **tubby** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:22 pm

Hell no! We should be looking to give some of the younger players a chance not bringing someone like him back from loan. How else are we ever going to blood kids into the team.

by **Leonmc0708** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:08 pm

this loss on KEane thing - lets get it straight.

We agreed to pay Tottenham £17m rising to £20.8m dependent on appearences/success etc that now cant be hit.

We got £12m for selling him back, rising to £16m dependent on appearences (that will be hit).

Down payment £10m from us to spurs. They have now waived further costs and will pay the rest as and when.

Nett loss £1m

by **kazza** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:39 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:this loss on KEane thing - lets get it straight.

We agreed to pay Tottenham £17m rising to £20.8m dependent on appearences/success etc that now cant be hit.

We got £12m for selling him back, rising to £16m dependent on appearences (that will be hit).

Down payment £10m from us to spurs. They have now waived further costs and will pay the rest as and when.

Nett loss £1m

Exactly but it is easier to critisize Raffa as a failure. I respect that he acted instantly when he saw a problem. When you are commander you must command and that is what he did. Since we sold him, we have won two in a row in the prem.

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