Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:27 pm

Now to actually sensibly comment on the game and the consequences of the result. To be honest it goes a bit deeper than the Mancs going to Tottenham and "only" drawing, or whatever Chelsea do tomorrow. Our home form is now looking like it's going to prove terminal to our title challenge and it's a crying shame. Ciggy posted up that we've drawn six at Home now (and no doubt she's right), and when people like Owz do an analysis on our season at the end, it will be this which is the reason for us not winning the title.

In looking at our league position so far, it's increasingly looking like it was hugely important that we beat both Man Utd and Chelsea, and in this respect we are beginning to look like we're in a false position (and please, I know I'll get swarmed all over here but do yourselves a favour for a second and fecking leave me alone). Had we have lost at Chelsea rather than won, a victory for them tomorrow would put them EIGHT points clear of us and I would venture we would already be out of it. We would have been already out of it simply because we are innefficient at beating lesser teams.

I've seen the goals from Hijawi's excellent clips, and both the goals we conceded were awful pieces of defending. "It's the players", yes I know. The first one, Riera and Dossena get themselves in a terrible muddle back post, positionally absolutely awful. Somebody (and I think it's Dossena) tries to get back right side at the last minute but doesn't, good header 1-0. second goal when he's trying to prevent the cross coming in, he looks like one of those veterans in the over-35's, scared he'll put his back out if he stretches too much. Defensively, this bloke is absolutely awful, terrible and if that wasn't his final appearance in a Liverpool shirt based on those two clips alone, then it ought to be. If Daniel Agger isn't capable of being a better left back than that, I'm fecking Dutch. And if Insua isn't already a better left-back that that, he should look for a new job. The signing of Dossena is the worst signing Rafa has ever made in my view, a truly terrible piece of business. On a sidenote I didn't think Reina did particularly well for either goal.

Our two goals are good finsihes by Gerrard (thank feck we've got him, I know "Rafa made him into the player he is" :laugh:

someone did say that a couple of weeks back) and I thought there was a suspicion of a foul for the first by Riera. The second is a good set up by Benayoun, but an excellent finish as he had to reach for it and had he tried to hit it too hard he'd have ballooned it.

Not bringing Keane or Babel on up top though when we needed the win, with say twenty minutes to go was and is criminal. A disgraceful decision in my opinion, and any flack which comes the way of the manager is fully deserved.

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:31 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:And by the same token, may we not have the over-reactionary wave of bullsh*t from the anti's, too?

Just a thought, like - I mean, none of this "two camps" b*llocks would exist were it not for the "Rafa is an idiot" propaganda of the window-licking minority.

You know - the same minority who obviously know best and have proved it over many years in top-flight football...

There's a difference though Lando, and it's a non too subtle one. People who are classed as "anti" in the main come on and talk about the game/the manager/the players/the tactics/the substitutions.

The "pro's" (not the right term but you know what I mean) then attack THE POSTER and not the football points raised. They attack the very right of the person to even hold such an opinion, they question his/her legitimacy as a fan etc and it just gets boring.

If people don't think Keane should have been brought on, or do think Kuyt is a lone striker, then say so. Simply implying somebody is a c... though for holding an opinion which is different to the manager without explaining why is boring. Like I said, this thread is quite clear what it's all about by the title of it.

by **destro** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:37 pm

So Keane has gone from being a waste of money, and a certain January sale player to become our saving grace, amazing how opinions can change. For the same reason Raffa has gone from deserving his contract extension to being stubborn by not giving the fans what they want to see which, from what I understand is a 20 million pound waste of money. Its all ifs and buts but some seem certain this waste of money would have got us a point in a game we should have won and won easily if we have any realistic chance of winning the League, had Keane come on and not scored Raffa would still be a fool to some for bringing him on and not Babel, or Ngogg or El Zhar. Do any of you really think that Raffa seriously dented our chances of winning the league because he is stubborn, seriously is that what some of you think. Only Raffa knows why he didn't bring on our bestest striker ever, but I would hazzard a guess it had nothing at all to do with stubbornness :no

by **metalhead** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:38 pm

Bam wrote:Did he refuse to bring Keane on because the crowd were telling him to do so ?

Nah surely not.

I think so yes.

and its bloody unbelievable :no

by **zarababe** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:40 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
bigmick wrote:Can we not do the "I'm the best Liverpool supporter in the World" bit and "anyone who dares to voice an opinion that a draw at Home with Hull is not a fantastic result is a Manc" bit on the match thread? Must we always endure this same nonsense on every thread after a poor result, the posturing of "trusters" proving their "worthyness" by their undying faith?

We get it, we understand. No matter what happens, no matter what the circumstances, you will always believe and maintain that the manager wasn't at fault. it's Ok, we know. If we win anything or win anywhere, the managers a genius and "in Rafa we trust". If however it doesn't go according to plan, it's "the players" innit, "we wuz unlucky". You don't have to keep demonstrating how faithfully you believe, we know. We know you know the words to our song and act out the lyrics everyday, we're fully aware of it. We know that the title isn't won in December, and that we came back from three down in the Champions League final, we know.
We also know that you think there isn't another person on planet Earth who could manage Liverpool Football Club.

It's just that, well some of us despite knowing that think that paying 20 million quid for a striker then not playing him is a bit odd. Equally, paying 8 million quid for a fullback who is garbage is a bit strange (and we know that neither of those decisions is down to the manager, "it's the scouts innit?"). Some of us think that playing Kuyt up top on his own, and leaving him on for 90 minutes when by all accounts he wasn't really doing it is a tad unusual, but then again as you'll no doubt tell us, we weren't at Melwood all week so what do we know anyway.

The topic starter here has made it very clear what the thread is all about. Rather than attacking every poster for their disloyalty, knee-jerkery, cluelessness, Sam Allardyce fan club membership, Mancness etc etc etc why not just give it a rest. Grab yourself a copy of the Champions League final DVD and go watch that to cheer yourself up. Just leave off with all this "I'm a real fan and therefore I believe" b0ll0cks, it's starting to do my head in.

And by the same token, may we not have the over-reactionary wave of bullsh*t from the anti's, too?

Just a thought, like - I mean, none of this "two camps" b*llocks would exist were it not for the "Rafa is an idiot" propaganda of the window-licking minority.

You know - the same minority who obviously know best and have proved it over many years in top-flight football...

It's been a long day - aspirins all round

And yes BM I am the best Liverpool Supporter around :lookaround

Thanks for knowing what spurred my posts wise-one

Where's 'Dalglish' when ya need his wisdom :help

by **Simari** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:41 pm

Well, we're entering a very tricky period of the schedule all the way to early february.

The so-called easy (must win) games are behind us. Still only a point behind Chelsea assuming they do their bit tomorrow.

Perhaps, our season will be defined by our performances against the so-called not-easy teams who we have the pleasure of playing over the next month or so.

As much as I hate the fact that we have truely dropped 6 pts over the last 3 home games, the bright side is that Torres will be back soon. We are not out of the race by any means thanks in-part to the stuttering performances of our rivals.

There is still hope.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:47 pm

bavlondon wrote:Why becasue he is a good manager? Grow up ER.

Ok guys take a good look at the table becasue I dont know when we will next be top so enjoy it while is lasts.

No, because he is now our savior. The one who will lead us to the promised land, whereas not so long ago, he was an odious c*nt. So we all want him now, but all you have to do is chuck about 200 million in his direction, and give him an Armani coat.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:56 pm

Good post Mick. The only thing I would add is that Kuyt was abysmal today, I have never been too heavy in my criticism of him but today nothing went right for him. His touch was fkn awful and even his hard work didn't seem to be working well.

TBH I would have settled for a draw when we were 0-2 down, so I am perhaps not as upset as some, but we can't afford to keep missing opportunities like today. Maybe we should try going for broke once in a while and throwing on EXTRA strikers rather than just changing players? Especially in games like today when Hull looked as if they had settled for a point at half time.

I have a feeling that we will look back at the end of the season and sorely regret the daft points we have dropped, rather than be celebrating the points our rivals have dropped.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

He did have a hand in the 2 goals but his missed chances and other blunders overshadows that.

When I was flipping out after the Stoke result everyone was saying 'its only 1 result dont worry we are still in a good position'. Well Utd drew today but Chelsea may well not tomorrow and we have a tough match next week away at Arsenal who always play well when playing the other top 4 sides.

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

s@int wrote:I have a feeling that we will look back at the end of the season and sorely regret the daft points we have dropped, rather than be celebrating the points our rivals have dropped.

Exactly what I've been thinking as well.

by **tubby** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:14 pm

So who still thinks we are going to win the league?

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:19 pm

bavlondon wrote:So who still thinks we are going to win the league?

I think we are still in with a chance Bav. We just seem to be going about it in a very strange way. Dropping seemingly easy points at home while winning difficult games away. If we hadn't beaten the Mancs and Chelsea this season would already be over imo, but we did and its not over yet mate.

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:25 pm

s@int wrote:
bavlondon wrote:So who still thinks we are going to win the league?

I think we are still in with a chance Bav. We just seem to be going about it in a very strange way. Dropping seemingly easy points at home while winning difficult games away. If we hadn't beaten the Mancs and Chelsea this season would already be over imo, but we did and its not over yet mate.

Yep those two good performances are the reason we are right up there. That said, it's not how it's how many so whichever way you look at it, we're in the race.

It is starting to remind me a little bit though of last season where "we are unbeaten" was the rallying cry of the believers, despite the fact we were dropping points left right and centre and the leaders disappeared over the horizon. Comparing our result today with that of the Mancs for instance is silly (and I just know someone will come on and say "but Hull are above Tottenham"). For one thing, the Mancs were away (again against a decent team) and for another, Spurs are buzzing.

Hull surprised a couple of teams earlier in the season but they shouldn't be surprising us now, just like they didn't surprise Chelsea a few weeks back. Todays was an absolutely awful result, which hasn't put us out of the title race but has made it miore difficult for us to win it.

Most worrying of all will be the feeling creeping into the players minds now that we aren't actually up to it. We've had three or four chances over the last few weeks to put the Mancs as good as out of it and haven't taken them. We will regret that at the end of the season IMHO.

by **neil** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:31 pm

lets take out carraghers own goals and see what the points tally would have been.

:Oo:

did I just have a pop at carra?! string me up.

by **Rush Job** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:35 pm

bigmick wrote:Can we not do the "I'm the best Liverpool supporter in the World" bit and "anyone who dares to voice an opinion that a draw at Home with Hull is not a fantastic result is a Manc" bit on the match thread? Must we always endure this same nonsense on every thread after a poor result, the posturing of "trusters" proving their "worthyness" by their undying faith?

We get it, we understand. No matter what happens, no matter what the circumstances, you will always believe and maintain that the manager wasn't at fault. it's Ok, we know. If we win anything or win anywhere, the managers a genius and "in Rafa we trust". If however it doesn't go according to plan, it's "the players" innit, "we wuz unlucky". You don't have to keep demonstrating how faithfully you believe, we know. We know you know the words to our song and act out the lyrics everyday, we're fully aware of it. We know that the title isn't won in December, and that we came back from three down in the Champions League final, we know.
We also know that you think there isn't another person on planet Earth who could manage Liverpool Football Club.

It's just that, well some of us despite knowing that think that paying 20 million quid for a striker then not playing him is a bit odd. Equally, paying 8 million quid for a fullback who is garbage is a bit strange (and we know that neither of those decisions is down to the manager, "it's the scouts innit?"). Some of us think that playing Kuyt up top on his own, and leaving him on for 90 minutes when by all accounts he wasn't really doing it is a tad unusual, but then again as you'll no doubt tell us, we weren't at Melwood all week so what do we know anyway.

The topic starter here has made it very clear what the thread is all about. Rather than attacking every poster for their disloyalty, knee-jerkery, cluelessness, Sam Allardyce fan club membership, Mancness etc etc etc why not just give it a rest. Grab yourself a copy of the Champions League final DVD and go watch that to cheer yourself up. Just leave off with all this "I'm a real fan and therefore I believe" b0ll0cks, it's starting to do my head in.

Mate what you on about no body has said anythink like that, the only poster saying he's a better fan was someone say people who think rafa is a good manager are bad fans.
That said I realise the thread has moved on so real need for a reply.

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