Liverpool FC Forum

bigmick wrote:This is the thing which gets me. Who is right and wrong matters nowhere near as much as people think. I come on here to talk about football and I couldn't give a feck if someone is proven to be right or wrong six months down the track.

s@int wrote:

LOL I miss French and Saunders, am I doused now? 

bigmick wrote:Bob touched on something earlier which I think summed up the current problems with the forum. Discussions are increasingly more to do with people defending a position, and less to do with the actual subject matter itself, namely football.

I used to like coming on here for a bit of banter, to discuss football with knowledgeable people, but it's changed. People have developed the notion of having an opinion into some kind of seige mentality, defending their stance to the hilt regardless of what they see before their eyes. Course it's OK to diisagree with each other, that's what it's all about but there are two discussions going on at the moment in which common sense has gone out of the window. The most surprising thing of all is that rotatioin isn't even involved, I'm referring of course to the Kuyt and Alonso threads.

Let me explain where I think some people are in danger of losing it. Apologies in advance to those who I'm referring to, but I'm going to name names.


Firstly the Dirk Kuyt thread. How is it possible to have a sensible discussion about the merits of the player, when you get people comparing him as a footballer to Djimitar Berbatov, claiming that he "keeps on scoring important goals" when he's just scored his first league goal in 28 starts, and calling him Dirky Boy? I'm going to name a name here, this GFYS character or whatever else he calls himself has forever lost any credibility in my eyes with his posts on this matter. Utterly ridiculous. When people try and sensibly talk about the player and are happy to accept that he's our  best option for the right bar the captain, but then keep getting this nonsense about him being some kind of scapegoat, or told that he works hard it makes it ridiculous. Despite his claims to the contrary, I am far from convinced that the aforementioned poster is not a full time wind up merchant. I do know that there is more satisfaction discussing the game of association football with my missus than there is trying to do it on the kuyt thread when he is around. My appeal to this fella is this, at least try, just for a second to be objective about the subject.

On the same thread we have Peewee banging on about Kuyt being sh!te every game. I do think there is a slight difference in that Peewee is at least funny (deliberately so much of the time) and also he does it seems to me pick up plenty of flak these days almost regardless of what he post on any subject. Once more though a bit less dogma would be kind of good, although certainly the likes of Saint and Bam have been happy to praise Kuyt up for some of his better performances.

On the Alonso thread, we are beginning to get silly on there too. Now for two seasons many posters (myself included) have been of the opinion that Xabi hasn't played as well as he did in his first couple of seasons. Some of us even bored everybody senseless by advancing a couple of theories as to why. "Not so" said another faction, all an optical illusion by all accounts. He either didn't play quite as well as we thought he did in that first season, or he was actualy playing much better than we thought he was in his third season, or a combination of the two. Anyways, he was actually the "most important player at the club" according to Lando as the argument raged on.

Well just to confuse the issue even further, Rafa tries to flog him off to all and sundry and replace him with Gareth Barry. Then nobody is prepared to pay mid teens for him, but just to make the waters even muddier Xabi comes back and starts playing right back at the top of his game again. Lando claims Gerrard did nothing whatsoever in the first half against Everton, then says it was just sarcasm and he was only kidding and meanwhile the people who are big Xabi fans are trying to reconcile the fact that he is clearly playing better than he was last season, with their statements back then. It's all going to pot.


Here's an idea. Lets just admit we were wrong sometimes, or even not totally right. If you defended the extremes of Rafa style to the hilt, I've got news for you, you were wrong. Nothing to be embarrassed about, Rafa was wrong too. Most important thing is though, we've moved on and we've got the hang of it now. I was wrong about Robert Earnshaw, Albert Riera before we signed him (although I would like to see him PROPERLY prove it), Skyrtel is developing into a better defender than I thought he would as is Arbeloa, and Kuyt is doing better on the right of a 4-4-2 than I thought he was able. There, it really isn't anything to be ashamed about.


So, here's my charter for peace. When Lando said that Alonso was the most important player at the club, he was wrong. It is either Gerrard or Torres, with my personal opinion being that it's the former. Similarly, he called it wrong in the Everton game and Gerrard played well. GFYS's name is wrong because it's supposed to be an acronym of comething Andy Gray said, but infact isn't. He was also wrong to not dismiss the comparison between Kuyt and Berbatov as footballers instantly, because it's ridiculous. When people said last season that Alonso's form hadn't dipped, they were wrong. It had, and he's showing us right now exactly how much. When Stu says people don't improve as they get older, be it in "attributes" or whatever, he was wrong. Not in many cases, but I liked Emeralds example of Kevin Phillips. Occasionally they do, so to say they never do is wrong. That said, Emerald was wrong to use Thiery Henri as an example. He was wrong, because infact it's not a good example. Kevin Phillips is though, so we'll let him off.

Anyway, now I've p!ssed everyone off I'm gonna feck off again. I'll keep coming back to read though, and if it looks like it's good fun and a good discussion again, I'll be back sticking my oar in again. I'll get loads of stuff wrong no doubt, but I will try my best to admit it when it's so. 

i'm funny   

I win    (nice to see there are still people on here who appreciate real humour)

I do agree though mick, i kept out of the kuyt thread for a while as it was embarrassing the lengths people were going to trying to defend him. on another note though mick when kuyt has done something well i have credited him for it in the individual match threads ( you will have to look very hard to find it and obviously you wont find it in every match thread    )