Liverpool FC Forum

by **Effes** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:34 pm

Bamaga man wrote:If money is scarce, then why ishe looking at spending 8 million on a fullback from Italy. For me we're not crying out for a fullback in the same way we are a winger. Arbeloa, Riise and Aurelio are capable enough short term, while we have Yossi and Babel (who is played of of position n the left) on the wing. Wouldn that 8 million be better spent elsewhere if we haven really got the money ?

Completely agree.

by **taff** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:52 pm

s@int wrote:I think this arguement is easily solved - If Rafa is such a genius, why not just agree to this being his last season if we don't challenge for the title? Surely you are all confident that he will ? After all IT'S HIS FIFTH SEASON in charge. I am not saying he has to win it .........just be in with a reasonable shout come next May. I am certainly quite happy to say I would like him to stay if we make a challenge!

Now the excuses will come thick and fast

Cant really argue with that unless you or Bigmick go off on one if we dont win but are in it till the end, Im up for your compromise no excuses, I think we have to challenge.

On the money and fullback thing Im with Rafa as we have to improve our attacking options from here. The defence will be sorted especially with Agger returning, even if Finnan and Riise leave. Midfield wth Barry deffo sorted leaving us wthg the possibility of a nice surprise before the season starts

But in the spirit of agreement I will be gutted if we only sign two fullbacks and Barry although it is May and Im definitely not going to start going on about Rafas lack of ambition in the transfer market.

So we improve that attack and I am confident yes and am looking forward to the gloom and doom gang raving about his genius next May

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:56 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:You know full well that cup competitions are different to the league. You can't compare 38 games (probably 32 of which are against sh*thouse teams that try and stifle the life out of the game), and 12 against the cream of World football. You just can't.

Which is why I keep referring back to our league performances rather than the two CUPS which we have won mate.

No team wins every match - it's almost impossible to.

No one is expecting or asking him to win every match, I just want him to win enough matches to make us challenge or win the league (He can lose 10 games for me as long as we win the league)

As for Barnsley - they beat Chelsea, too, don't forget.

That still doesn't excuse us losing does it? We have been knocked out 2 out of 4 times now by lower league opposition.

As a further note, we lost 4 matches in the league last year - 1 less than the champions, and we also closed the gap considerably on the 2006-07 table.

But still finished with 6 less points than we achieved 2 seasons ago!

I know how strongly you feel about Rafa mate and I don't want to denigrate his achievements, I do think however that its now time he put up or shut up in the league. A title challenge with the players we have should be almost a given.

Can you honestly say that our team has played to its best level consistantly in ANY season under Rafa. We have proven we are good enough to have challenged with good runs in 2006 and towards the end of last season, what we need now is to maintain that form, not necessarily another £200million on new players.

by **taff** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:08 pm

Ok its put up or shut up but lets get some perspective here over some of the arguments against Rafa

1. We are top 4 in a very tough league and after his first season its never been in doubt even with the pessimists posting with three months to go in the midle of a bad run. Need to improve, of course

2. The Champions league, even with the argument about it being easy :laugh:

we are serious contenders lets repeat this serious contenders. This is an achievement not lucky because we are in the PL and its easy to get there, and if I went to this argument then it aplies to the league as well concerning the three teams above us. You cant have it both ways

3. Instead of SG who is unique we have strenghthened the squad considerably

But I do agree with you that we do have to CHALLENGE this season, we may win of course but challenge is a realistic objective

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:11 pm

taff wrote:
s@int wrote:I think this arguement is easily solved - If Rafa is such a genius, why not just agree to this being his last season if we don't challenge for the title? Surely you are all confident that he will ? After all IT'S HIS FIFTH SEASON in charge. I am not saying he has to win it .........just be in with a reasonable shout come next May. I am certainly quite happy to say I would like him to stay if we make a challenge!

Now the excuses will come thick and fast

Cant really argue with that unless you or Bigmick go off on one if we dont win but are in it till the end, Im up for your compromise no excuses, I think we have to challenge.

While I am happy you think its a fair challenge Taff, it wasn't aimed at just you mate. Hence the subtitle of the thread.......

I am even willing to throw in a proviso for you all, that if we win the CL/FA cup he can have another season "free of charge"

by **taff** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:42 pm

Very generous of you Saint but what about the league cup

Under the assumption that we get Barry the only thing I think we really need is a great player on the left as the right could be covered by Babel, Yossi etc. In fact the only regret I have with Bellamy going is he would have been better than Kuyt on the right hand side with the 4-2-3-1 formation. But with Kewell going we need to replace him. The fullback situation is IMO good as the attacking options have improved and we have been weak there, I rate Finnan more than Riise but I do think we have been weak there in the final third especially as we have Mash to cover the area when that attack is on and he is pretty good at doing this.

I wont get into fantasy football land by naming players but I would expect us to get one decent big money signing even with the crazy board antics.

Say we sell Crouch, Voronin, Finnan, Riise, Carson to fund Barry and that Italian left back.

we get at least 60 million so 30 million to the bank and 30 million to spend on a great player. I know its simplistic but kind of makes sense to me. We spend to get another quality guy like Torres and then yes we should definitely be challenging,

We should really spend 60 million but those Yanks are *******, Sunderland spent 60 million to stay up which is their PL money. Two players for 60 million and I would probably be demanding the league

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:42 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:Is there is anything more annoying than superficial posters, not having the intelligence to read the context of the post .
I will not explain in detail the intricate nature of the English language, but I did not indicate in any way shape or form Avram Grant led his team to victory. Will this placate your thirst to pinpoint the frailties of others how ever clueless your observations are ?
Notice how I wont even oblige by QUOTING your DROSS of a reply .
Maxi

up yours you swine

by **Owzat** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:46 pm

taff wrote:1. We are top 4 in a very tough league and after his first season its never been in doubt even with the pessimists posting with three months to go in the midle of a bad run. Need to improve, of course

We are one of the bigger spenders and finish accordingly. It's tough..........................................for those who don't have the same financial whack, however the three relegated sides managed the fewest points combined ever in the Premiership (38 games)

We spent more than Arsenal and finished behind them, however we've made little improvement in terms of the league in four seasons and even dropped a position. We've also inexplicably dropped points at home against sides we should have easily beaten. We're not ruthless, the mancs not only didn't lose many games but won most of their home games. Few expected anything other than a manc win on the final day of the season, when they lose to the type of sides we all too frequently lose to, it is truly a shock. When we draw it isn't, when we lose it isn't. I've almost become numbed to these results

taff wrote:2. The Champions league, even with the argument about it being easy we are serious contenders lets repeat this serious contenders. This is an achievement not lucky because we are in the PL and its easy to get there, and if I went to this argument then it aplies to the league as well concerning the three teams above us. You cant have it both ways

It isn't easy, however it's not the main objective and more of a distraction. A Premiership side has been in every final for the past four seasons, that hardly promotes much of a challenge considering three of the four finals have featured two sides (Liverpool and Arsenal) who haven't been champions in that same period. Cup success isn't what we want and it's easier than the league which requires consistency. That's how Pompey won the FA Cup and finished nowhere near the top four, even in two legged ties the best side doesn't necessarily go through. The side that gets a debatable goal or wins on penalties can reach the final. Did the best team win it this time around.......................?

taff wrote:But I do agree with you that we do have to CHALLENGE this season, we may win of course but challenge is a realistic objective

We should have already challenged, maybe Chelsea and the mancs have more money, but that doesn't mean we can't challenge. 34 games a season are played against the rest of the Premiership, only FOUR are played against Chelsea and the mancs so any argument about spending power doesn't explain how we drew at home to brum and Wigan or lost away to Reading. It doesn't explain a lot of results, the results that cost us a title challenge.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:48 pm

s@int wrote:I think this arguement is easily solved - If Rafa is such a genius, why not just agree to this being his last season if we don't challenge for the title? Surely you are all confident that he will ? After all IT'S HIS FIFTH SEASON in charge. I am not saying he has to win it .........just be in with a reasonable shout come next May. I am certainly quite happy to say I would like him to stay if we make a challenge!

Now the excuses will come thick and fast

No excuses, mate, just a clarification question. I assume that part of the fun with this thread will be to dredge it up a year from now and see who's stuck to their guns.

That being the case, do we need to in any way define what counts as a title challenge now? Are there time constraints and/or points targets that factor in? For instance, if we 'do an Arsenal' and challenge most of the year, only to fade away in April, have we challenged? Or, if we slide 12 points off the pace in December only to claw the lead back to 4 points come the last day of the season (but without really causing the leaders to sweat), have we challenged? Personally, like porn, I think most of us will know a title challenge when we see it but it may be worth setting out the parameters now so that we don't get into too much hair-splitting later.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:09 pm

I think being within 6 points with 3 or 4 games to go is good enough for me mate. Even if we then lose all our remaining games and finish 15/18 points behind I would still accept that as a challenge. I would prefer a SUSTAINED challenge, where we are there or there abouts from April, but I will settle for 6 points with 3 or 4 games to go.

I suppose my idea of a challenge is being close enough that we could actually win the thing with only a few games to go. Running away with the league till Christmas only to fade away badly isn't really my idea of a challenge, although its better than we have achieved so far.

by **Effes** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:13 pm

Bad Bob wrote: Personally, like porn, I think most of us will know a title challenge when we see it but it may be worth setting out the parameters now so that we don't get into too much hair-splitting later.

I dont see the porn link there Bob.

It's all subjective, but if it has to be quantified -
I consider a title challenge if we are within 4 points of the leaders with 10 games left.

I would forfeit any Champs League run for that.

by **taff** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:15 pm

Ok Owzat what is your opinion rather than highlighting mine. stay or go with Rafa

by **Effes** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:17 pm

s@int wrote:I think being within 6 points with 3 or 4 games to go is good enough for me mate.

But S@int, I couldn't see us gaining 6 points on say Chelsea or Man U
with just 9 or 12 poimts up for grabs.

Unfortunatley, the dross in the league wouldn't be able to do us any favours.
Of course, it depends who they have left to play.
But knowing the bookies, if we were 6 points behind Man U with 3 games left we
would be about 9-1 outsiders.

by **LFC2007** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:17 pm

Bamaga man wrote:If money is scarce, then why ishe looking at spending 8 million on a fullback from Italy. For me we're not crying out for a fullback in the same way we are a winger. Arbeloa, Riise and Aurelio are capable enough short term, while we have Yossi and Babel (who is played of of position n the left) on the wing. Wouldn that 8 million be better spent elsewhere if we haven really got the money ?

For me, we are crying out for a full back. You can just about get away with having one average/decent one in the team, but if you want to challenge you need at least one who's quality. I've no problem with us signing this Italian chap so long as he's quality.

Well it did take fergie seven years, be patient !

The genius who took 7 years to win the league.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:22 pm

Effes wrote:
s@int wrote:I think being within 6 points with 3 or 4 games to go is good enough for me mate.

But S@int, I couldn't see us gaining 6 points on say Chelsea or Man U
with just 9 or 12 poimts up for grabs.

Unfortunatley, the dross in the league wouldn't be able to do us any favours.
Of course, it depends who they have left to play.
But knowing the bookies, if we were 6 points behind Man U with 3 games left we
would be about 9-1 outsiders.

I would still be wishing, hoping and dreaming mate, and thats all I ask for next season, just to still be in with a chance at the run in.

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