Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:03 pm

Yes, I think it was Ciggy who brought the actual quotes to the rumour mill, I'd love you're right and it's just mind games mate, but I "sense" some bitterness in that words. Of course, if bitterness can be "sensed" at all from some words at all!

But it's a different speech the one he's wielding now, I felt a lot more determination in his sentences last summer, as if something was really to change, and this words seem to be resigned words.

by **bigmick** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:05 pm

Well I hope he doesn't walk away because it will set us back in time. If we had our time again and knowing what we know now etc etc etc, I firmly believe we have already wasted a couple of years at least in terms of getting on with the job of winning the league, but that's done now and we might as well stick with the direction we are finally going in.

It would have been nice if Rafa had learnt the lessons which Dalglish spoke of in his excellent earlier posts before the end of his fourth year, but there you go. If we assume he has finally learnt them lets move on from here. What lessons? Well the styling obviously which has held us back season after season after season, the fact that you need to go all out for the win in just about every single game in which you aren't playing one of the big four, the fact that if you disrespect teams they will kick your erse in this league, the fact that players can actually play a couple of games in a week and not instantly collapse in need of oxygen, the folly of resting players after four games so they'll be "fresh for the run-in" when in actual fact your run-in is meaningless, the fact that Dirk Kuyt isn't actually good enough to play up front for us etc etc. All those things have held us back, and the biggest tradgedy of all is that a combination of those factors has undermined the excellence of the job Rafa has done in many other areas.

He has bought very well albeit at a cost, the team is unquestionably significantly stronger than he arrived. He has by all accounts revamped the youth set-up although we are yet to see any benefit in the first team. He has in the main although not always conducted himself with dignity under difficult circumstances, and he is obviously a shrewd tactician in Europe. In each of the four seasons he has achieved the miniumum standard for the manager of one of the big four which is qualification and then progression from the group. In three out of four seasons he has sone better than that, which is a good record. As I've said many times he will get us to at the very least the quarters again next season I should think, where we'll most likely face one of the other three English teams again.

So I hope he sticks around. I hope he sticks around and puts into practice the lessons he has learnt since he came here. Despite what many think, and despite what some desperately cling to, I think he has seen the error of his ways and I do think we'll see a proper challenge next season. I certainly hope so or it will indeed be five wasted years.

As an add on, I note that Sabes you think I'm being too pessimistic saying we cannot possibly win the Prem form so far back. Well we are about 7/1 with Betfair, which I must say I think is an absolutely ridiculous price. We are going to probably need to gain another fifteen or sixteen points to win it next season (Man Utd won't give everyone a head start again) and from where we are it is beyond us I would think. I do though think that a serious and credible challenge is certainly within our capability, as indeed it has been in the last two seasons despite the fact that we finished 21 points behind, and 11 points behind respectively.

As a further add on, I note that someone else referred to Rafa being a "genius". It's an interesting a point of view.

by **Penguins** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:08 pm

Me thinks you are grasping for straws my friend....

I agree with this as more should do:

"Still, walk on, as Dalglish says. With or without Rafa, 1st second, or 6th, we must support this marvelous club."

Getting sick of the "We are Liverpool so we must win"

Even if Torres and Gerrard left tommorow and Manure and Chelski spent another 100 million each the supporters still would demand the the title and the managers head on a plate
if that objective is not accieved.
It's one thing to be a supporter and another to be igonorant and stupid.

Let us support the team no matter what and hope for a better future. DON'T DEMAND IT LIKE IT IS OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT!
If Liverpool gets relegated? So what?
I'll still love the club. If Manure overtakes us? So what?
I will still believe we will get back if that happens and overtake them.

I still remember the days when barnes, Rush, Beardsley played for us and those were great days. But that was 20 years ago
and the reality is we aren't the top dog anymore.

[B]

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:08 pm

According to my sources, after failing to buy Torres, Chelsea have offered Liverpool 40M for Rafa Benitez.

Peter Kenyon stated that Rafa will slot into an attacking midfield role, probably behind Kalou.

by **Sabre** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:09 pm

According to Spanish press Abramovich has raised the bid to 50 M, so says Marca.

Bigmick, fair enough, I also think he has done mistakes and learn from those... For instance, I hope he doesn't give weight to unproven newbies when the league starts, and we don't have situations like Gonzalez playing Manchester United away with 2 games in the pocket (mistake) or relying on Voronin.

I'd like to see a well known team by us next season, with hopefully one or two quality signings that are proven quality. No more experiments at the start of season.

(to mention a few of the mistakes he has done and every manager does).

by **Effes** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:18 pm

Sabre wrote:According to Spanish press Abramovich has raised the bid to 50 M, so says Marca.

Is that Euros or £ ?

by **Sabre** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:30 pm

Effes wrote:
Sabre wrote:According to Spanish press Abramovich has raised the bid to 50 M, so says Marca.

Is that Euros or £ ?

50 M pounds, 62M €

Headline

by **Effes** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:33 pm

Sabre wrote:
Effes wrote:
Sabre wrote:According to Spanish press Abramovich has raised the bid to 50 M, so says Marca.

Is that Euros or £ ?

50 M pounds, 62M €

Headline

Sabre, in the 3rd headline down, is that Rafa getting an honourary degree?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:43 pm

Effes wrote:
s@int wrote:Up to now we have never been a selling club, we don't sell good players.

Keegan, Souness, Rush?

Im not trying to suss you out there S@int, but we couldn't keep those players.

I cant say I strongly disagree with the posts on here.

All I can say is this, it's more than likely that we will never compete with the spending power of Chelsea or Man U unless DIC step in.

But we shouldn't let this be an excuse for Rafa.

The main failure with Rafa has been his league campaigns.
A few posters seem to think Rafa has "learnt"
certain things about his campaigns - but Im not sure he has.

If I see an identical approach as the previous seasons i.e. not playing our best striker at home to kak
like Birmingham, and dropping key players in the first half of the season but then having great form when
it's too late - then I think we need to change the manger.

Up to now we have never been a selling club, we don't sell good players. Maybe things will change this season, but up to now we have only sold players when we thought we had better, or they wanted to go.

I think I had Keegan, Souness and Rush covered with my "saver" at the end mate

I agree I am not so sure Rafa has "changed", "learned his lesson", "finally seen the light" or whatever. I have the feeling he still thinks he his right about rotation, resting players, tactical changes and altering formations depending on the opponents.

I hope I am wrong but I think we may see just as many changes next season as this one, my hope is that maybe the quality coming in may be nearer the quality being rested this time.

I just can't see him changing something so fundamental to his beliefs as a manager.

by **Effes** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:47 pm

s@int wrote:I just can't see him changing something so fundamental to his beliefs as a manager.

Ditto here.

I stand corrected with your "saver".

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:16 am

Sacked Grant dubbed a 'loser' by Mourinho
Duncan Castles The Observer, Sunday May 25 2008 Article history
Jose Mourinho remains in close contact with Roman Abramovich.

Avram Grant has been sacked by Chelsea, on the day José Mourinho broke his long silence on his successor at Stamford Bridge by criticising the Israeli's failure to win a single trophy. The Portuguese went on to suggest that the football philosophy of his successor is that of 'a loser'.

Mourinho's exclusive interview with The Observer comes as it is revealed that Roman Abramovich made the Portuguese manager the extraordinary gift of a limited edition Ferrari worth more than £2million , in the immediate aftermath of Grant's debilitating Carling Cup final loss to Tottenham.

February's defeat was one of three final-day failures, culminating in Wednesday's Champions League Final loss to Manchester United. The Israeli coach had his contract terminated last night.

Asked if Chelsea's campaign had been the good one Grant depicted it as, Mourinho said: 'That depends on your philosophy of leadership. In my philosophy it was a very bad one because in football "almost" means defeat and Chelsea almost won the Carling Cup, almost won the Champions League, and almost won the Premier League. Almost is nothing.
'After two titles per season for the last three years there were zero titles this season, which in my philosophy means a really bad season. Maybe in the philosophy of a loser this was a great season, which I respect.'

Mourinho was in regular contact with Abramovich and several of his former players ahead of the Champions League final and was quick to commiserate with them after their defeat on penalties in Moscow. He told the Russian billionaire that Chelsea would not continue to suffer the misfortune that also cost them two previous European Cup semi-finals to Liverpool.

'The best team lost the Champions League final, like last season the best team lost the Champions League semi-final,' Mourinho said. 'That is football. I have always said that details make the difference at this level - and luck is a really big detail.

'I am very sad about what happened. In the last two years this team lost a Champions League final and a Champions League semi-final on penalties. The supporters deserve more, Roman and the board deserve more, top people like [Frank] Lampard, [Michael] Essien, [Claude] Makelele, Ashley [Cole], Didier [Drogba], [Ricardo] Carvalho, [and coaches] Steve Clarke, Mick McGiven and some others deserve happiness. I still think of them as my boys.

'Yes, I was sad. Yes, I felt deeply that it was not fair. But I believe that after an empty season new success will come to Chelsea. And I will always be a Chelsea supporter.'

The chances of Mourinho returning as Chelsea manager have increased significantly in recent weeks. Mourinho was astounded when Chelsea director
Eugene Tenenbaum called in February to inform him that Abramovich had purchased a rare Ferrari for the man he had removed from Stamford Bridge five months previously.

Customised specially for Mourinho, the 612 Scaglietti was one of just 60 produced to commemorate Ferrari's 60th anniversary. While still at Chelsea, Mourinho had told Abramovich that if he could have his choice of cars, the four-seat Scaglietti would be it. The list price is around £250,000, but such is its rarity the secondary-market value is as much as eight times that amount.

Abramovich's gift was made at a time at which he had begun to consider replacing Grant as manager, with Mourinho's name raised as a potential appointment. While such a move appears more feasible now that Grant has gone, sources close to the Portuguese coach say that he is too close to taking a position in Italy for it to happen this close season, although they do not rule it out in the future.

Mourinho is likely to take over from Roberto Mancini at Internazionale and may sign a contract with the Serie A club this week. He has already drawn up plans for next season and is likely to take striker Didier Drogba with him to Italy.

Grant has agreed a £5.2m pay-off from Chelsea. Although bookies were offering odds on as many as 10 different managers to be the Israeli's successor, the favourites are former Barçelona coach Frank Rijkaard, Guus Hiddink and Sven-Goran Eriksson.

Chelsea have been involved in secret conversations with Hiddink, whose position as Russia's national coach is not as secure as has been presented. The Dutchman has a provisional contract to coach Russia until the 2010 World Cup, but that will not be ratified until after Euro 2008 and senior figures in the Russian Football Union are unimpressed by the team's qualification campaign. Vitaly Mutko, newly appointed sports minister and head of the Russian Football Union, said: 'We will evaluate his work after the European Championship.' Although his salary is funded by the Chelsea owner, Hiddink has previously resisted invitations to manage the club for personal reasons.

Eriksson, who was approached about the Stamford Bridge post before Mourinho replaced Claudio Ranieri in 2004, is due to meet Chelsea officials next week after he is formally dismissed by Manchester City. The Swede had been linked with a return to his former club Benfica, but the Lisbon side have appointed Quique Sánchez Flores. The Spaniard was sacked by Valencia last October.
----------------------------------------------

Mourinho - First class c*nt but a winner

by **Ciggy** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:23 am

bigmick wrote:Well I hope he doesn't walk away because it will set us back in time.

I hope he does and I hope the yanks sell off Torres, Alonso, Gerrard, Mascherano, etc Reina will also walk and we end up a midtable team, then get relegated.

If this is the only way to get rid of the yanks then so be it.

You know I dont mean any of this but I can see this as our future unfortunatley with these pair of tw@ts owning us.

by **bigmick** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:29 am

I remember saying before the Champions League semi Lynds that if you offered me defeat to Chelsea then the owners leaving I'd have it in a flash. In that sense, I totally agree with your statement. I suppose you could almost say the same for them flogging off Torres for 100 mill', taking the profit and fecking off. Though it would be the bitterest pill, long-term we would be better off I'm sure of it. As it is, having them around feels like the club has been diagnosed with terminal cancer.

by **Ciggy** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:31 am

I am very close to packing it all in, Ive always had faith in Liverpool always, my club is part of my family, but it is not my family anymore, and if next season is like the last one, well Im afraid its just not worth it.

I spent many sleepless nights a few months ago through two men who had no clue about the club ripping up its founations like a 100 year old tree and now my roots are dying.

I just dont feel the same way anymore, maybe someone will come along and give us some great fertiliser but I already feel like we are dying.

by **Emerald Red** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:35 am

Ciggy wrote:I am very close to packing it all in, Ive always had faith in Liverpool always, my club is part of my family, but it is not my family anymore, and if next season is like the last one, well Im afraid its just not worth it.

I spent many sleepless nights a few months ago through two men who had no clue about the club ripping up its founations like a 100 year old tree and now my roots are dying.

I just dont feel the same way anymore, maybe someone will come along and give us some great fertiliser but I already feel like we are dying.

That's bollox, Ciggy, and you know it. You'll always support the team and club no matter what. The Yanks could end up f*cking us, but not without a fight. If the sh*t hits the fans, those two c*nts will know about it.

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