Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:46 am

LFC2007 wrote:The old 'trademark on common sense'

Your as transparent as glass. I would add a smiley but its neither clever or funny.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:51 am

We need wingers...............

My take on the Keane-Torres problem is a little different, I think that Keane is trying too hard to be something he is not particularly suited for... a creator.

His running off the ball is very direct instead of angled and this makes it very difficult for a team playing without wingers and playing so narrow to find him with a pass. When he comes deeper for the ball, he has to stop and turn (usually into a defender) rather than taking it on the move which he could do if he angled his runs like Torres and Kuyt. Similarly when he goes forward he runs like a winger.... straight up the pitch..... giving the passer little or no angle to make the pass.

Presumably he has played most of his career with wingers crossing the ball, so has never needed to do more than get to the box by the shortest route, but without wingers and many crosses, he needs to do a little more.

by **112-1077774096** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:57 am

i feel sorry for keane, any more games without scoring he will be shifted out to the right wing to try an justify his fee

by **LFC2007** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:27 am

s@int wrote:His running off the ball is very direct instead of angled and this makes it very difficult for a team playing without wingers and playing so narrow to find him with a pass. When he comes deeper for the ball, he has to stop and turn (usually into a defender) rather than taking it on the move which he could do if he angled his runs like Torres and Kuyt. Similarly when he goes forward he runs like a winger.... straight up the pitch..... giving the passer little or no angle to make the pass.

Presumably he has played most of his career with wingers crossing the ball, so has never needed to do more than get to the box by the shortest route, but without wingers and many crosses, he needs to do a little more.

I think you have a very valid point here (but I wouldn't call it opinion theft just yet). He's more of a main striker (one that likes to nip in) than a creative forward, and if you compare his movement to Arshavin's (for example) - who definitely is a creative forward, then that's quite clear. He lingers in pockets angling his runs, looking to link the play and play cute balls through. He's more subtle than Keane, has a better touch and his vision is much better too, but he isn't as good an all round finisher. In spite of that, I still think Keane has enough to work alongside Torres if we can manage to stretch teams, and the glimpses were there against Boro - the darting run to the edge of the box and the pass for Torres just inside the box being the main example. Arshavin can operate in smaller spaces more effectively (and was the better option anyway IMO), but I'm optimistic about Keane because he has that nippy dribbling ability which is needed in and around the box.

by **GYBS** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:54 am

The reason we are playing :censored:

is because we are playing 442 to shoe horn in a new striker . 20 mil on a striker is a luxury we couldnt afford when we had bigger priorities ie a left attacker - the last 4 games are evident of that .

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:02 am

OK ... I missed much of last nights game as I was delayed at the airport traveling home from a business trip.

But ... it sounds like the same old problem as we've had in other games this season - lacked width and creativity.

Also ... Stevie G is injured for the next 10 days so we need to shuffle the pack a bit this weekend

Therefore ... my suggestion for this weekend (without Gerrard) is to resort back to the 4-2-3-1 formation this weekend. Only change at the back would be Dossena for Aurelio. Mascha comes back into CM to partner Xabi. We then have a choice of Babel, Kuyt, Yossi, Lucas and Keane to form the 3 advanced MF/Forward positions and Torres as the focal point striker. We 'might' also have Reira to throw in there as another option. That formation worked so well for us last season. Personally I would go with Babel, Kuyt and Keane in the Gerrard role in the 4-5-3-1 formation

by **GYBS** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:04 am

HacksawJimDuggin wrote:OK ... I missed much of last nights game as I was delayed at the airport traveling home from a business trip.

But ... it sounds like the same old problem as we've had in other games this season - lacked width and creativity.

Also ... Stevie G is injured for the next 10 days so we need to shuffle the pack a bit this weekend

Therefore ... my suggestion for this weekend (without Gerrard) is to resort back to the 4-2-3-1 formation this weekend. Only change at the back would be Dossena for Aurelio. Mascha comes back into CM to partner Xabi. We then have a choice of Babel, Kuyt, Yossi, Lucas and Keane to form the 3 advanced MF/Forward positions and Torres as the focal point striker. We 'might' also have Reira to throw in there. That formation worked so well for us last season. Personally I would go with Babel, Kuyt and Keane in the Gerrard role in the 4-5-3-1 formation

Yep would agree with you 100 per cent - i might even have keane on the left side and babel in the hole or if we have reira put him left babel in the hole and keane on the bench .

by **bunglemark2** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:22 am

HacksawJimDuggin wrote:OK ... I missed much of last nights game as I was delayed at the airport traveling home from a business trip.

But ... it sounds like the same old problem as we've had in other games this season - lacked width and creativity.

Also ... Stevie G is injured for the next 10 days so we need to shuffle the pack a bit this weekend

Therefore ... my suggestion for this weekend (without Gerrard) is to resort back to the 4-2-3-1 formation this weekend. Only change at the back would be Dossena for Aurelio. Mascha comes back into CM to partner Xabi. We then have a choice of Babel, Kuyt, Yossi, Lucas and Keane to form the 3 advanced MF/Forward positions and Torres as the focal point striker. We 'might' also have Reira to throw in there as another option. That formation worked so well for us last season. Personally I would go with Babel, Kuyt and Keane in the Gerrard role in the 4-5-3-1 formation

1. Don't think it would be a good idea to throw a new lad in (Riera) against Villa.
He hasn't trained with the squad, doesn't know any of them, where they will "be" if and when Riera gets the ball out on the wong.
Riera is not the option for this game anyway.
2. Babel:
A really, really, really good slap required here. I, along with thousands of others, incl. Rafa, screamed at the box last night every single time he tried to "ghost" past a player yet left the ball behind because he couldn't put it past, around or through the legs of a defender. Cop on, lad, and sort yourself out.
3. Yossi:
Just go away, please. Anywhere....
4. Agger:
Where the fark are you, mate ?
5. Kuyt
You get a bloody unfair amount of bashing here, and I've always been a fan of your workrate - keep it up - but please, please, please make sure you have a right AND a left boot when you get on the pitch....

by **GYBS** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:26 am

Think agger hasnt played in the last couple games due to the physical nature of the opponents strikers and skittles is more suited to that than agger.

by **tubby** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:26 am

I thought Babel was :censored:

last night. Ok aside from the cross for the goal how many times did he just run into players and give the ball away. We dont have any quality wingers at all, we are far to one dimensional and whats worse we are not even that creative when attacking through the centre. Not sure what this Riera lad is going to be like but we need to sort our act out.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:28 am

HacksawJimDuggin wrote:OK ... I missed much of last nights game as I was delayed at the airport traveling home from a business trip.

But ... it sounds like the same old problem as we've had in other games this season - lacked width and creativity.

Also ... Stevie G is injured for the next 10 days so we need to shuffle the pack a bit this weekend

Therefore ... my suggestion for this weekend (without Gerrard) is to resort back to the 4-2-3-1 formation this weekend. Only change at the back would be Dossena for Aurelio. Mascha comes back into CM to partner Xabi. We then have a choice of Babel, Kuyt, Yossi, Lucas and Keane to form the 3 advanced MF/Forward positions and Torres as the focal point striker. We 'might' also have Reira to throw in there as another option. That formation worked so well for us last season. Personally I would go with Babel, Kuyt and Keane in the Gerrard role in the 4-5-3-1 formation

i dont think we will be allowed on the pitch with that formation

by **tubby** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:36 am

What happens when our current run of luck runs out. Seriously if we play like we have been against Utd in a few weeks we will get slaughtered. Then lets see how many people are still smiling at our league position. With or without Ronaldo they still have the capability to give us a hiding at home. They do it every year and thats when we are close to taking points from them. Now we are plain playing :censored:

, god knows whats going to happen.

by **7_Kewell** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:38 am

john craig wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:over the last 4 matches we've lacked creativity and ideas…why? It’s down to our wing play! Every time Kuyt, Babel, Batfink or anyone else on the wing gets the ball they attempt to run into the penalty area….today was of no exception. Each time, they attempted to do it and each time they ran into defenders. For most of today’s game we’ve been playing with 4 players in the opposition penalty box and it’s hardly surprising to see us struggle.

Then, Babel runs to the by line and puts a cross in…probably the ONLY cross we played from the by line…and we score. FFS Rafa, If I can see it why the f**king hell can’t you guys on the bench….forget Barry for 18 million…just buy us ONE CLASS WINGER….thats all I ask!

Someone's been listening to Andy Townsend...

What a fu.cking pointless topic. Any fu.cking 5 year old can see it's the wide positions that let us down.

Think of how we can actually address it and put some thought into it, and then it's worth a topic, instead of regurgitating the usual sh.it spewed by anti-Liverpool commentators and pundits.

why post if you arn't interested? :laugh:

anyway, my view of Babel stems from last season...he rarely beat his man and would always work his way inside. Bottom line is he's not a good winger....in fact he makes Garcia look like Pele.

by **andy_g** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:40 am

a few ideas off the top of my hungover head. not too well thought out for now... i'll try and do that later.

we really aren't anywhere near as good as we keep trying to tell ourselves that we are. we have a couple of very good players and 2 or 3 half decent players and the rest who aren't really that good at all - and the better players we have don't seem able to peform consistently. we have a manager who seems to be too stubborn to admit that things aren't working and who refuses to or is incapable of finding the solution. we don't play well as a team and are often too impatient to get the ball on the ground and play football. gerrard tries far too often to do it all himself and fails. we have no width and little creative quality in the final third. the famous anfield '12th man' is over exaggerated and nowhere near as effective as romantic and mistaken football pundits like to believe and bang on about. no single team anywhere is afraid of us any more.

of course there are also a few positives but we are currently a team who are as far away from winning the league as just about anyone bar the top two. something has to change drastically before we can begin to dream again and i think some very hard decisions need to be taken.

ok, krap post over.

by **tubby** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:41 am

He is ok but I just put that down to always coming on late in the game so he can run a few people around. Whoever said he is the next Henry needs a slap. I didn't see him beat one player last night and he doesnt look to have improved at all. Im probably being harsh seeing as its only his 1st game since last season but still. For 12Mil he better :censored:

perform this season.

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