Liverpool FC Forum

RedBen wrote:

Ace Ventura wrote:And what happens if Torres gets injured ?

This:

Instead of this:

Fo Dne wrote:Jesus christ almighty! Give me strength.



Rediculous. Bentley better than Gerrard...

I've heard it all now. Really have.

Scottbot wrote:

GYBS wrote:It might take the manager a bit of time to get to it but a 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard and Babel running rampant on the outside and Keane playing in the hole is the way forward.

so  moving gerrard from a position he was outstanding at last season and formed a lethal partnership with torres just so keane can fit in ?

GYBS wrote:

Scottbot wrote:

GYBS wrote:It might take the manager a bit of time to get to it but a 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard and Babel running rampant on the outside and Keane playing in the hole is the way forward.

so  moving gerrard from a position he was outstanding at last season and formed a lethal partnership with torres just so keane can fit in ?

So moving Gerrard to play in a position he was ALSO outstanding (and arguably better) in 3 seasons ago just to fit in Keane is such as bad thing aswell?

GYBS wrote:

Toffeehater wrote:

GYBS wrote:

Toffeehater wrote:

GYBS wrote:

Ace Ventura wrote:I agree with some of what you are saying, it is clear that we need better quality wide attacking players. But maybe there arent any that were available or affordable.


What i disagree on is whether we needed Keane, i think we definately did. Not only is he a great player to bring in if Torres is not fit or (cough) rotated 
But he is also a clever enough player to play alongside Torres or just behind. We were very short in that department despite all the names you listed.
Only Torres out of all of them is proven.
What we have now is another top player who once he has settled in will score and create goals, cant see how Rafa can be criticised for that one mate.

i just think with our budget spending 20 mil on a striker was a luxury we really couldnt afford mate - yeah we did need someone else up front but not at that price and at the expense of bigger priority . like i say i like keane a lot and hope he does work out but i can see him being played and shoe horned into the team to the detrement of the team - seen it in the last couple of games . hopefully he can adapt to a different role within a 4-2-3-1 (which is think is our best formation) maybe on the left or right or in gerrrard role but then why is rafa after barry ?

Last season we were complaining about torres and gerrard were the only 2 goal scorers who could win matches for us and what happens when they got marked out of the game or were having a bad game? We needed a second striker to ease the load of either of them and we got keane , so i think we should give keane a chance to prove himself instead of just jumping on his back after 2 competitive games. You want quality , you pay for quality if not you may get another voronin

not jumping on his back personally mate - just think for us to play with a second striker we go 442 and we dont have the personell to play 442 - no width either side and gerrard sits deeper- in a 4-2-3-1 we do with babel and kuyt but would prefer a more creative player .

last season i wasnt complaining about goals from up front it was goals from other areas - ie the midfield esp in the wide areas.

if gerrard is marked out of the game who supplies the two strikers we have got ? with a more creative left sided player that gives us much more options and flexability . while we play 442 all our play will be narrow and easy to defend against so wont matter playing two up front as they wont get the ball .

I would like the 4-2-3-1 with keane playing as a 2nd striker in the hole as gerrad was . Its clear that torres plays better upfront when he does not haev to worry about his other strike partner or where to pass . SO maybe rafa should play keane a little deeper and i suspect he will revert to that formation when the monster returns .

and have gerrard next to masher ?

Yes or maybe even on the right if xabi has improved and we have not brought in any winger , gerrard will play any where for LFC and yesterday for england cappello played him on the left    , a position that he should have clearly played barry in .


Reina

Carragher            Agger          Skrtel          Dossena


                         Masch         Gerrard/Alonso
Gerrard/kuyt/Yossi                                      Babel

                                     Keane

                                     Torres

LegBarnes wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

RedBlood wrote:Puff?....................i guess you would know stu

hes also THE best left footed crosser of a ball in the prem, we wouldnt need 2 break the bank 4 him & he would get better with better player around him

and yes as a right-sided winger Bentley is better then gerrard becoz unlike gerrard he actually stays on the right wing

Yeah totally, because we've got loads of players that are brilliant at attacking crosses. I can totally see the logic in signing two, at best, good wingers.

Downing is a bag who pulls out of every tackle.

As for saying Bentley's better than Gerrard... pffffttt

Fo dne reason he pulls out of tackles is because he is a winger not a center half.

Does ronaldo tackle much ....

I give you a week to think about that one.

Lets get the nit and grit of things. What are a wingers main skills ?

Lets see pace , yes he has that.
Crossing errr yes he got that.
Able to beat a man or 2 , errr yes that too.
Flair yes not best in league but he got some.
Tricks well this his weak area or mabye his strength i for one don't like over the top wingers with to many tricks.

Lets see nope didn't think so don't see tackle there.

If I was you FO DNE i go and learn football coaching badge then come back and talk about it when you stop talking out of you ar.se.

As for players who attack crosses keane scores from crosses torres is very good in air and gerrard remember CL final plus diving header he scored.

I think it unfair to point out also our lack of players to attack crosses as  we haven't had a good winger in errr about 17 years.

Also a point to note a wingers job isn't just to get crosses in they are there to stretch the play open gaps in defences and go over the top behind the back 4.

Also you find in tight top 4 games 2 wingers will pin down the op's full backs which in turn gives more space to your center midfielders in attacking postions and that advantage can win games.

off lad.

"He pulls out of tackles because he's a winger". Thats the most rediculous excuse I've heard in my entire life. I don't expect a winger to be like Gerrard, Mascherano or Alonso in a 50-50, but i'd expect them to challenge for it and at least make some sort of attempt to win the ball. Downing NEVER does, ask the Middlesborough fans.

As for Ronaldo, he doesn't tackle much no, but he doesn't out either and is more than willing to push people about and use his upper body strength, something Downing doesn't do.

Smicer has more aggression in his game... look how frustrated the fans got with him.

You then go on about Wingers main skills? What utter . Footballers are footballers and it completely depends completely on the system as to what skills a "winger"/wide player needs.

Kevin Kilbane's a very average winger who's made a career out of being able to beat full backs arially on diagnal long balls from right backs and hard work and helping stop sides playing.

Gareth Barry's been a box to box left sided midfielder for years giving defensive solidity, ball retention and drive to the left hand side at Villa.

You mention his "pace". Downings not what you'd call a quick player. He's not slow but pace isn't his main attribute what so ever. His best attributes are all technical, his crossing, body shape, passing, shooting, set peices and even his vision. You also bang on about his crossing... Again, I'll say to you, whats the point? We have no players who thrive of this kind of service what so ever. Keane is awful in the air and doesn't attack crosses and Torres, while he can, and probably will try its not and never will be his game. If we had Fowler, I'd see your arguement, but we dont.

I'll say it once more in capitals for you....

WE HAVE NO PLAYERS WHO THRIVE OFF THAT TYPE OF SERVICE. Its not even as if we have a right winger who'd make the most of over hit crosses...

As for saying a winger needs "tricks"... hell... how old are you? Giggs, Robben and McManaman hardly had a trick between them and all could beat players for fun with there eyes closed.

To say we have a team who thrive of crosses is simply . We don't, its wrong to say we do. Gerrard's one goal here and there and Torres one goal here and there doesn't mean we do. The amount of quality balls Pennant whips in theres never anyone to convert them is a joke, no-one bothers there to get into the box and attack the things.

I'm not even arguing with you no more lad, you're chatting complete and utter rubbish. You keep living in your fantasy world were we have a good enough defence, Bentley is better than Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso and the signing of two decent players will win us the league and leave us even more open at the back for teams to expose our weaknesses.

Well done...

bigmick wrote:I'm not really sure why people keep going on about "wingers" and "getting crosses in" myself either if I'm honest. We've already got a right "winger" who hugs the touchline and gets more crosses in than any other player in the Premiership. Some of them are quite good crosses too, but as a few people have pointed out we simply don't have anybody who thrives on that type of service. Had Pennant begun his Arsenal career ten years earlier we would never have been able to buy him, as he would like as not have been credited with around twenty assists every season for Alan Smith headers.

I've been saying for sometime now that I don't hold with the idea in modern football that just because a bloke plays right midfield he should be in posession of a Stanley Mathews style ability to beat a man, or a Jimmy Johnstone box of tricks. What wide midfielders need these days is engine, ability, talent and goalscoring threat. Players such as Hleb and a latter day Ljundberg are the modern day wide midfielder.

Rierra isn't the answer either I fear. Hopefully he'll be anbother wide man who we'll fail to get. I remember very recently been involved in trying to sign the likes of Norberto Solano and Stelios Giannikopilos or whatever the feck his name is. Sometimes a manager is defined by the good fortune he is afforded in not actually getting some of his targets. Rierra isn't the answer in any way shape of form for me, a footballing waster.

On the question of David Bentley, he maybe able to beat Steven Gerrard at snooker, darts or something similar, but in anything connected with the game of Association Football there is absolutely no comparison. as a right midfielder, a right winger, a goalkeeper or a linesman, Gerrard is vastly superior to Bentley in every respect. If the Spurs man continues to improve at his current rapid pace, and the inevitable ageing process takes its toll on our man, in five years time there may be a comparison worthy of consideration. Today though, there isn't.

Bentley has a better touch, better skill and more composed on the ball like...

Gerrard just wipes the floor with him in every other department.

bigmick wrote:On the question of David Bentley, he maybe able to beat Steven Gerrard at snooker, darts or something similar

   

Bamaga man wrote:Torres does look equally as good uptop on his own than he does with a partner. I'm not saying the Keane/Torres partnership wont work, as I believe given time it will. But I think I'd like to see Torres uptop alone and with the team playing two DM's Alonso, Mascha or Plessis then the three AM ahead of them, Keane IMO could easily play in behind Torres and side by side with Babel and Gerrard.

I think I'd like to see that simply as for me it gets our best player playing in there best positions, and TBH I cannot remember now a decent performance put in by LFC in recent months (last season including) when we played exceptionally well in a 4-4-2 formation, its kind of died on its @rse IMO since we dont have the personel.

bigmick wrote:On the question of David Bentley, he maybe able to beat Steven Gerrard at snooker, darts or something similar, but in anything connected with the game of Association Football there is absolutely no comparison. as a right midfielder, a right winger, a goalkeeper or a linesman, Gerrard is vastly superior to Bentley in every respect. If the Spurs man continues to improve at his current rapid pace, and the inevitable ageing process takes its toll on our man, in five years time there may be a comparison worthy of consideration. Today though, there isn't.

, spot on . Enough said ,Bentley can't match Gerrard in any department well maybe except his new hairstyle