Liverpool FC Forum

Emerald Red wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:Quite simple really.  Rafa has wasted money on players that he doesn't need and also players that aren't upto standard.------------------------Benitez is at best very average in the market. He's not signed complete duffers and he's not really lost alot of money and he's also gained a few pounds,

A tad contradicting there, don't you think? For any business person, to buy something and then sell goods that he finds to be damaged for the price he got it for or for a few quid more than he paid, isn't average. By any standard of any practice, that is brilliant business skills.And name these players he's "wasted" money on? To build a squad, you need to spend, no? And a squad is what we needed. How many world class players had we got before Benitez took over, in every area of the pitch? Right now, I'd count at least four (including Pepe) at the back, at least three in midfield, and certainly one up front. That's 8 world class players that can play in a 1st full strength team on any given day. We are missing two  world class wide men, and a world class back up for Torres. That's three short of a truly world class side IMO. Three short from true greatness.

Am not even getting into a Benitez bumming match with you, can't be bothered what so ever.

But for you to sit there and say LFC has 8 world class players is the biggest joke I've ever heard in my life.

Gerrard and Torres are. Mascherano, Alonso and Reina are good players, not world class. For you to even attempt to call any of the other players we have "world class" is beyond a joke.

Zidane was world class... don't sit there and say to me half the Liverpool squad is you complete joker.

So you're saying, starting at the back, that Carragher, Agger, Reina, Skrtel, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, and Torres are not world class players?

Do us a favor and get off that high horse and take your face for a sh*te. If you think these aren't world class, then you don't have a clue about football. End of.

And where did you get Zidane from? While we're at it, let's bring up Pele,  Maradona and Cruyff to compare.

If we have that many world class players then why don't we win everything?

You're talking . Only Gerrard and Torres in that side are world class.

To count players like Carragher, Alonso and Skrtel as world class is quite simply laughable.

There is probably only 10-15 genuine world class players around at the moment, infact, I struggle to think of that many. For you to sit there can call players of that standard world class means you're effectively calling half of the league world class. There are probably 5 or 6 centre halfs better than all of ours, there are probably 4 or 5 midfielders better than all of ours.

Gerrard and Torres are world class, Rooney, Tevez, Ferdinand and Ronaldo are world class, Essien's world class, Fabregas is world class...

To put Alonso, Carragher, Skrtel and some of the others in that catorgary is a complete and utter joke.

john craig wrote:There is also a lot of mention in this thread about Carragher's ability and whether he was a late bloomer or simply benefitted from playing with better players and organisation around him in later years.  It may be a combination, but let's not forget he only converted to centre back under Benitez, when he was around 26.

Wrong, he played there as an 18 year old under Evans when we had a defensive nightmare and it was clear then what a decent player he was. Had the rest around him had half of his ability we'd have had a decent side, they didn't.

We've seen what he's capable of players next to Reina, Hyypia, Finnan and Riise rather than Babb, Matteo, Kvarme and McAteer.

Is it really that hard to see? The others around him where a joke, he always held his own, always has, always will. Look at Hyypia when playing next to Traore, and other players in the past...

I find it laughable that anyone who has a good game is world class. WAKE UP! We're fourth in the league for a reason.

Fo Dne wrote:If we have that many world class players then why don't we win everything?

You're talking . Only Gerrard and Torres in that side are world class.

To count players like Carragher, Alonso and Skrtel as world class is quite simply laughable.

There is probably only 10-15 genuine world class players around at the moment, infact, I struggle to think of that many. For you to sit there can call players of that standard world class means you're effectively calling half of the league world class. There are probably 5 or 6 centre halfs better than all of ours, there are probably 4 or 5 midfielders better than all of ours.

Gerrard and Torres are world class, Rooney, Tevez, Ferdinand and Ronaldo are world class, Essien's world class, Fabregas is world class...

To put Alonso, Carragher, Skrtel and some of the others in that catorgary is a complete and utter joke.

Fo Dne wrote:

LFC2007 wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:And don't even sit there and say to me Lampards better than Barton.

Not even a contest. Bartons far superior in nearly every department with the exception of movement in the attacking third.

I'm sitting here saying Lampard's a better player than Barton 

Well then you clearly don't know what you're talking about and its a waste of time discussing football with you.

I bow to your omniscience 

Effes wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:If we have that many world class players then why don't we win everything?

You're talking . Only Gerrard and Torres in that side are world class.

To count players like Carragher, Alonso and Skrtel as world class is quite simply laughable.

There is probably only 10-15 genuine world class players around at the moment, infact, I struggle to think of that many. For you to sit there can call players of that standard world class means you're effectively calling half of the league world class. There are probably 5 or 6 centre halfs better than all of ours, there are probably 4 or 5 midfielders better than all of ours.

Gerrard and Torres are world class, Rooney, Tevez, Ferdinand and Ronaldo are world class, Essien's world class, Fabregas is world class...

To put Alonso, Carragher, Skrtel and some of the others in that catorgary is a complete and utter joke.

You've not mentioned Mascherano - a few of us agree he is world class.

Essien is a beast, I think he's the best at what he does.

Sabre wrote:I have tons of respect towards Stu's opinions on players.

But in the case of Barton, who I don't know well enough, I'm not so sure. I know a mate that plays in lower leagues and once played against the current Real Sociedad keeper. My mate is a striker, and that day he saw how the keeper made 5 incredible stops. Since that day he always praises the keeper, even when he has horrible games

So it's just possible, that since Stu played against Barton in some game in the past (I think) he might be under the same awe to the player. I call it the "I've played against a primera player" syndrom 

So in that context, there's no need to start insulting each other because we disagree on Ashton, Barton, Gerrard, or any of Stu's favourites. We all know who his favs are, there's no need to bring them into the discussion  Otherwise we might lose Stu's opinions on other players, which is more interesting (because at this newkit point I've read more posts about Barton rather than Finnan).

Effes wrote:I sense another "World Class" debate is looming here.

Fo Dne wrote:

Sabre wrote:I have tons of respect towards Stu's opinions on players.

But in the case of Barton, who I don't know well enough, I'm not so sure. I know a mate that plays in lower leagues and once played against the current Real Sociedad keeper. My mate is a striker, and that day he saw how the keeper made 5 incredible stops. Since that day he always praises the keeper, even when he has horrible games

So it's just possible, that since Stu played against Barton in some game in the past (I think) he might be under the same awe to the player. I call it the "I've played against a primera player" syndrom 

So in that context, there's no need to start insulting each other because we disagree on Ashton, Barton, Gerrard, or any of Stu's favourites. We all know who his favs are, there's no need to bring them into the discussion  Otherwise we might lose Stu's opinions on other players, which is more interesting (because at this newkit point I've read more posts about Barton rather than Finnan).

Sabre, ask anyone who was assoctiated with Whiston Juniors FC mate who was the better player as a kid, Barton or Gerrard. Every single one of them will tell you Barton. You can see it when they play why if you actually watch and analyse both players.

You can also see how and why Gerrard is now the better player.

Its got very little to do with actually playing with the player (although when you do and you understand the game you can actually see the decisions they make in the flesh).

NANNY RED wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

Sabre wrote:I have tons of respect towards Stu's opinions on players.

But in the case of Barton, who I don't know well enough, I'm not so sure. I know a mate that plays in lower leagues and once played against the current Real Sociedad keeper. My mate is a striker, and that day he saw how the keeper made 5 incredible stops. Since that day he always praises the keeper, even when he has horrible games

So it's just possible, that since Stu played against Barton in some game in the past (I think) he might be under the same awe to the player. I call it the "I've played against a primera player" syndrom 

So in that context, there's no need to start insulting each other because we disagree on Ashton, Barton, Gerrard, or any of Stu's favourites. We all know who his favs are, there's no need to bring them into the discussion  Otherwise we might lose Stu's opinions on other players, which is more interesting (because at this newkit point I've read more posts about Barton rather than Finnan).

Sabre, ask anyone who was assoctiated with Whiston Juniors FC mate who was the better player as a kid, Barton or Gerrard. Every single one of them will tell you Barton. You can see it when they play why if you actually watch and analyse both players.

You can also see how and why Gerrard is now the better player.

Its got very little to do with actually playing with the player (although when you do and you understand the game you can actually see the decisions they make in the flesh).

Some good players came out of Whiston boys.
Nugent and Trunle i think

Over the years theve been involved in some good footie games with a club me dad helped run

Not Whiston Boys, Whiston Juniors Get it right Nanny

Steven Gerrard, Joey Barton, Josh Wilson (Northwhich Currently, Joey's cousin), Lee Trundle, David Nugent to name a few of the more recent and better players.

Its quite a learning experience for people to be involved with a club like that, yet the likes of "Emerald red" and quite alot of other arm chair know it alls think they understand and know everything there is to know coming from all corners of the earth. Its not untill you speak to people who've run these clubs for years and watch players come through from 8 years old and you speak to coaches who really know what they are talking about you realise no matter what "badges" and "qualifications" some of us have that we know all in comparrison.

Its quite funny really, I'm a UEFA B qualified coach and I learnt more in two weeks at Whiston than I did paying over a thousand pounds doing some courses with a bunch of wannabe know it alls who are failed footballers (like myself ).

When you listen to people like Harry Warburton who runs WJFC and has done for years it helps you understand the grass roots. Which is something ALOT of people don't have the foggiest clue about, yet think they know absoloutely everything. It helps you see certain things, watching games with them, realising what they are saying and trying to say. They can tell you things and show you things you never even knew existed and point out certain things about how similar or different players are. They can help you understand about a players development...

But what would they know?

NANNY RED wrote:Actualy same as my lad he paid loads for his coaching badges and yet learnt more from me dad who was involved with Netherley Wood Lane Football club, who never even had a coaching badge but could spot talent with one eye closed.

Its always the way to be fair. Its not a bad course the UEFA and FA badge, but could be so much better. Its to easy to pass and you're given to much info.

They seem to think tactical knowledge is 100% a substitute for ability, when it just isn't. You put the best 11 players in the world (with the right mix) with a basic tactic and they'll anyone, simple as that.

They over complicate EVERYTHING and seem to think these drills actually improve players immensely.

Will never forget goin to Holland years ago with the Whiston kids on a trip to play PSV, all the PSV lads doing all these drills perfectly and technically sublime, our lads had a go and looked a complete shambles. To cut a long story short, when it come down to the match our lads won 8-3 and absoloutely dicked them all over the show with easily the best performance I've seen from a kids team, the sixth goal had 24 (we think) passes in in from the goalkeeper to the finish.

Fo Dne wrote:

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

redtrader74 wrote:IMO Gerrard is wasted and not good enough to play the 2nd striker role, he doesn't have the vision or quick feet required. he should play in the middle where he IS one of the best players in the world. I'd rather he played wide right than as 2nd striker.

Do you have a short memory span or something?  I remember Manchester ripping us a new one at Anfield, when he was in midfield.  Gerrard rarely turns up against big sides no matter where he plays and thats a fact.  Also his partnership with Mascherano was a complete disaster for most of last season, we played some really disgusting football with those two in the middle.  There was just no balance at all, the passing was horrendous most of the time and on top of that, we were dominated by crappy teams.  Gerrard should stay where he is, because he's by far most effective playing just behind Torres.

What complete and utter rubbish you are chatting. Gerrard's only good games against good sides come from when he plays in central midfield or on the right. Nearly everytime we play United at Anfield he's the best player on the pitch and the same with Chelsea when he's played in position.To be quite honest, people like you aren't even worth replying to.

I'm sorry but you're the one talking rubbish.  Gerrard was good against Chelsea because he played along side Alonso in that game, and I remember that the move for Torres's goal was started by Alonso.  Also I don't remember him doing anything great againts the mancs last season, Anderson was causing him a sh*t load of problems.  I don't have a problem with Gerrard in the middle, but I think that his partnership with Mascherano was not working at all.  I'd actually like to see Gerrard play in midfield with Barry, if we signed him, but for me Mascherano has to really improve the creative part of his game if he is to play alongside Gerrard in the middle.

Gerrard didn't play well last season against the Mancs. First time for everything. As for Alonso starting the move, watch the move again. Gerrard played a one-two with Alonso so get ya facts right.

Try watching the games lad then come back.