Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:52 pm

I think Quireoiz may replace Ferguson if Fergie goes in the short to medium term: Quireoiz obviously has his eye on the job and the UTD hierachy may see him as an obvious choice to maintain continuity and his relationship with the new generation of UTD players such as Ronaldo, Anderson, Nani etc. This would be interesting because while Quireoiz is undoubtedly a good training ground coach and a good number two, he's no Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho or Benitez and I think UTD might lose a lot of their ruthlessness and dogged winning mentality when Ferguson goes. Of the top managers out there who might potentially take charge I can only real think of Mourinho as being a guy who could maintain the very high levels of success that Ferguson did: Lippi's record is brilliant but he isn't a young man, cannot speak English and has never managed in England.

Unfortunately any return to our dominance of the 1970s and 1980s must coincide with a downturn in UTD's fortunes and for that to happen there will have to be a mistake made by the UTD board when they come to pick Ferguson's succesor.

It won't be easy for Ferguson's successor and there has been talk for years at UTD of Fergie being moved upstairs when he eventually retires. His constant presence about the place certainly won't make it any easier for his successor.

Maybe this is wishful thinking but if UTD do the double this season surely the thought of resigning at the absolute pinacle of his success will cross Ferguson's mind? Wasn't one of the main reasons he stayed on after 2002 was because he thought his great team of 99 was dropping in standards and he wanted to build a new team to have a crack at the Champions League?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:15 pm

JBG wrote:I think Quireoiz may replace Ferguson if Fergie goes in the short to medium term: Quireoiz obviously has his eye on the job and the UTD hierachy may see him as an obvious choice to maintain continuity and his relationship with the new generation of UTD players such as Ronaldo, Anderson, Nani etc. This would be interesting because while Quireoiz is undoubtedly a good training ground coach and a good number two, he's no Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho or Benitez and I think UTD might lose a lot of their ruthlessness and dogged winning mentality when Ferguson goes. Of the top managers out there who might potentially take charge I can only real think of Mourinho as being a guy who could maintain the very high levels of success that Ferguson did: Lippi's record is brilliant but he isn't a young man, cannot speak English and has never managed in England.

Unfortunately any return to our dominance of the 1970s and 1980s must coincide with a downturn in UTD's fortunes and for that to happen there will have to be a mistake made by the UTD board when they come to pick Ferguson's succesor.

It won't be easy for Ferguson's successor and there has been talk for years at UTD of Fergie being moved upstairs when he eventually retires. His constant presence about the place certainly won't make it any easier for his successor.

Maybe this is wishful thinking but if UTD do the double this season surely the thought of resigning at the absolute pinacle of his success will cross Ferguson's mind? Wasn't one of the main reasons he stayed on after 2002 was because he thought his great team of 99 was dropping in standards and he wanted to build a new team to have a crack at the Champions League?

I think he wants the CL but ALSO I think he is determined to "knock Liverpool off their perch". ie more titles as well.

I think if Quireoiz (sp) doesn't get the job when he goes, it will go to an ex-player - Hughes, Keane etc.

by **LFC2007** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:18 pm

It's of absolute relevance IMO, given the similarities, and when you consider he's one of the most successful managers of all time. Because of this he's the standout example that shows patience can breed success, massive success. That's not to say that it will in our situation, but it shows it can and is a real possibility, accepting you are in the first category and not the second;

If you have faith in Rafa, view him as a top manager, accept the clear similarities between the two situations and aren't an avid Doom and Gloom merchant, it's a valid and relevant point.

If you think Rafa's average, or completely hopeless, FFS it's quite obvious that you're going to dismiss the comparison.

The Manc's hadn't won much prior to Ferguson's arrival in '86, they also hadn't won the league for almost 20 years. Their league positions in the immediate preceding couple of seasons were very similar to ours in 02/03 -03/04. In terms of starting positions - not a great deal of difference in relative terms. Both received a fair degree of backing in the transfer market - but Ferguson perhaps even more so, relatively speaking.

Many wanted him sacked as many thought they were going backwards, and there was growing doubt as to whether he would be able to turn them into genuine title challengers.

They stuck with him and won the league, and perhaps he got a bit lucky in that his success co-incided with the beginning of our decline, but that isn't to say that Rafa should also require the club of the day to suddenly decline in order to achieve success in the league.

No, I and others, rate him higher than that.

Nothing complicated.....

by **maguskwt** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:21 pm

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bottom line is that it comes down to faith. Do you have faith that Rafa will "do a Fergie" and make us a title-winning force again? I do, as it happens, and that's why I advocate giving him more time to get it right. But there are limits. I won't put a date on it, such as seven years--that's not the point of the Fergie comparisons anyway--but there will be a point in time where it is appropriate to get shut if Rafa hasn't gotten us any closer to the title. For me, that point hasn't yet been reached and the Fergie comparison is merely a way of reminding people that successful managers don't always get it right straight away. At minimum, I'd like to see Rafa given another year--a year completely free of the back room turmoil we've experienced this season. If that happens and we still don't mount a challenge, I'd probably say it's time to ask some hard questions about his future with the club.

So basically the "Fergie followers" are saying once Fergie has retired it will only take Rafa a few years to win the title (depending of course on the mancs following the Liverpool approach when Dalglish resigned by appointing a poor manager. ) If we follow the Fergie comparison to Liverpool that should be sometime in the next 6 or 7 years as Fergie has said he intends staying another 3 seasons, we should be expecting a title sometime after the year 2014 - yippeee

I don't know why sometimes ppl try to make things complicated... Bad Bob's post was as clear as crystal... there was no mention about "Fergie followers" and I didnt' see any mention about us having to wait until fergie retires to win the league...

I was combining my reply to the Fergie followers and to Bob. The Fergie followers are saying IT TOOK FERGIE 7 YEARS. It also took the resignation of Dalglish and the appointment of a poor manager in Souness.

So logically we would also have to wait till Fergie retires and the mancs appoint a poor manager.

Nothing complicated ....... at least for anyone who's not a moron.

In my honest opinion no one is saying or suggesting that we need to wait until fergie retires... at least not anyone that's not a moron... if you read the posts carefully and keep a clear head you will understand without any trouble...

and who the f@ck are "fergie followers"? no one is f@cking following fergie...

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:30 pm

Maybe we should just appoint a player manager like we did with Dalglish and forget about the wait? We had just lost a CL final and won nothing that season as well.

Patience can lead to success, it can also lead to a long frustrating wait with no success too. Look at Newcastle under Harvey 12 years.

There arn't too many examples of patience bringing success - this may be due to most managers getting the sack if the results don't improve, or it may mean that most successful managers usually produce the goods in a reasonable time period. The problem being what is a reasonable time period ? Houllier thought 5 years was long enough, certainly the players (and manager) expected more from this season than fighting for 4th place.

Gerrard and Carra have already said that they can't keep saying "next season," so how long can we ?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:36 pm

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bottom line is that it comes down to faith. Do you have faith that Rafa will "do a Fergie" and make us a title-winning force again? I do, as it happens, and that's why I advocate giving him more time to get it right. But there are limits. I won't put a date on it, such as seven years--that's not the point of the Fergie comparisons anyway--but there will be a point in time where it is appropriate to get shut if Rafa hasn't gotten us any closer to the title. For me, that point hasn't yet been reached and the Fergie comparison is merely a way of reminding people that successful managers don't always get it right straight away. At minimum, I'd like to see Rafa given another year--a year completely free of the back room turmoil we've experienced this season. If that happens and we still don't mount a challenge, I'd probably say it's time to ask some hard questions about his future with the club.

So basically the "Fergie followers" are saying once Fergie has retired it will only take Rafa a few years to win the title (depending of course on the mancs following the Liverpool approach when Dalglish resigned by appointing a poor manager. ) If we follow the Fergie comparison to Liverpool that should be sometime in the next 6 or 7 years as Fergie has said he intends staying another 3 seasons, we should be expecting a title sometime after the year 2014 - yippeee

I don't know why sometimes ppl try to make things complicated... Bad Bob's post was as clear as crystal... there was no mention about "Fergie followers" and I didnt' see any mention about us having to wait until fergie retires to win the league...

I was combining my reply to the Fergie followers and to Bob. The Fergie followers are saying IT TOOK FERGIE 7 YEARS. It also took the resignation of Dalglish and the appointment of a poor manager in Souness.

So logically we would also have to wait till Fergie retires and the mancs appoint a poor manager.

Nothing complicated ....... at least for anyone who's not a moron.

In my honest opinion no one is saying or suggesting that we need to wait until fergie retires... at least not anyone that's not a moron... if you read the posts carefully and keep a clear head you will understand without any trouble...

and who the f@ck are "fergie followers"? no one is f@cking following fergie...

The Fergie followers are the ones that seem to think we should follow Fergie in allowing Rafa 7 years to win the title.
Its not that difficult to understand .... for anyone with more than half a brain anyway.

If you have trouble understanding posts maybe you should avoid commenting or maybe just try taking your head out of your a$$ now and then.

by **maguskwt** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:43 pm

s@int wrote:There arn't too many examples of patience bringing success - this may be due to most managers getting the sack if the results don't improve, or it may mean that most successful managers usually produce the goods in a reasonable time period. The problem being what is a reasonable time period ? Houllier thought 5 years was long enough, certainly the players (and manager) expected more from this season than fighting for 4th place.

Manchester United - patience in the beginning + money later on
Arsenal - patience
Chelsea - money

those are the clubs that shared premier league titles... blackburn seems to be somewhat an exception but they still paid good money for shearer and sutton...

so if we don't have money and if we dont' have patience then what do we have?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:46 pm

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:There arn't too many examples of patience bringing success - this may be due to most managers getting the sack if the results don't improve, or it may mean that most successful managers usually produce the goods in a reasonable time period. The problem being what is a reasonable time period ? Houllier thought 5 years was long enough, certainly the players (and manager) expected more from this season than fighting for 4th place.

Manchester United - patience in the beginning + money later on
Arsenal - patience
Chelsea - money

those are the clubs that shared premier league titles... blackburn seems to be somewhat an exception but they still paid good money for shearer and sutton...

so if we don't have money and if we dont' have patience then what do we have?

Arsenal patience :laugh:

Wenger did the double in his first full season :laugh:

So apart from Arsenal who did the double in his first full season - Chelsea who also won the league in his first season :laugh:

we are back to Fergie.

by **Seano Kop** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:48 pm

After these few years with the man, I think Rafa has finally got it right. Maybe one or two more decent signings but I think next year the team will realise 2nd, 3rd and 4th place is :censored:

and a failure. I think half the boys realised this 20 games into the season when our title hopes were shot.

Next season though, hopefully we won't be saying "next season though....."

Look at our defence: Carra, Skrtl, Hyypia, Agger, Riise, Arbeloa, Aurelio and Finnan - all quality players

Look at our midfield: Gerrard, Mash, Alonso, Lucas, Babel (?), Kuyt (?), Kewell, Benayoun - all quality again

Look at our attack: Torres, Kuyt (?), Crouch, Voronin, Babel (?) - maybe not as good, but who cares who the second striker is when you've got Torres on the park!

Our depth is great, our starting XI is great, and when we rest key players, our fill-in's should be good enough to do the job against your Portsmouths, Man City's, Middlesbrough's and Wigan's.

That's my 2 cents anyway - Bravo to Rafa, I think he may be on to something here!!

by **maguskwt** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:51 pm

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bottom line is that it comes down to faith. Do you have faith that Rafa will "do a Fergie" and make us a title-winning force again? I do, as it happens, and that's why I advocate giving him more time to get it right. But there are limits. I won't put a date on it, such as seven years--that's not the point of the Fergie comparisons anyway--but there will be a point in time where it is appropriate to get shut if Rafa hasn't gotten us any closer to the title. For me, that point hasn't yet been reached and the Fergie comparison is merely a way of reminding people that successful managers don't always get it right straight away. At minimum, I'd like to see Rafa given another year--a year completely free of the back room turmoil we've experienced this season. If that happens and we still don't mount a challenge, I'd probably say it's time to ask some hard questions about his future with the club.

So basically the "Fergie followers" are saying once Fergie has retired it will only take Rafa a few years to win the title (depending of course on the mancs following the Liverpool approach when Dalglish resigned by appointing a poor manager. ) If we follow the Fergie comparison to Liverpool that should be sometime in the next 6 or 7 years as Fergie has said he intends staying another 3 seasons, we should be expecting a title sometime after the year 2014 - yippeee

I don't know why sometimes ppl try to make things complicated... Bad Bob's post was as clear as crystal... there was no mention about "Fergie followers" and I didnt' see any mention about us having to wait until fergie retires to win the league...

I was combining my reply to the Fergie followers and to Bob. The Fergie followers are saying IT TOOK FERGIE 7 YEARS. It also took the resignation of Dalglish and the appointment of a poor manager in Souness.

So logically we would also have to wait till Fergie retires and the mancs appoint a poor manager.

Nothing complicated ....... at least for anyone who's not a moron.

In my honest opinion no one is saying or suggesting that we need to wait until fergie retires... at least not anyone that's not a moron... if you read the posts carefully and keep a clear head you will understand without any trouble...

and who the f@ck are "fergie followers"? no one is f@cking following fergie...

The Fergie followers are the ones that seem to think we should follow Fergie in allowing Rafa 7 years to win the title.
Its not that difficult to understand .... for anyone with more than half a brain anyway.

If you have trouble understanding posts maybe you should avoid commenting or maybe just try taking your head out of your a$$ now and then.

look it's clear that you think too much of yourself :laugh:

... I'll let you have that... but don't put words into other ppl's mouths... did Bad Bob or LFC2007 or whoever said we need to give benitez 7 years the SAME as fergie? did anyone say we need to wait till fergie retires? if anyone suggested it... it was you... now go on... and don't be bitter... :laugh:

by **maguskwt** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:53 pm

Arsenal patience Wenger did the double in his first full season

So apart from Arsenal who did the double in his first full season - Chelsea who also won the league in his first season we are back to Fergie.

errrrr... who has won more league titles than wenger and mourinho combined??? :laugh:

stop making me laugh already... what a joke... :laugh:

... your post is a joke... "not many examples of patience bringing success" by ignoring the most successful manager in one and a half decade... :laugh:

... you should rename your nick to "joker"...

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:06 pm

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
Bottom line is that it comes down to faith. Do you have faith that Rafa will "do a Fergie" and make us a title-winning force again? I do, as it happens, and that's why I advocate giving him more time to get it right. But there are limits. I won't put a date on it, such as seven years--that's not the point of the Fergie comparisons anyway--but there will be a point in time where it is appropriate to get shut if Rafa hasn't gotten us any closer to the title. For me, that point hasn't yet been reached and the Fergie comparison is merely a way of reminding people that successful managers don't always get it right straight away. At minimum, I'd like to see Rafa given another year--a year completely free of the back room turmoil we've experienced this season. If that happens and we still don't mount a challenge, I'd probably say it's time to ask some hard questions about his future with the club.

So basically the "Fergie followers" are saying once Fergie has retired it will only take Rafa a few years to win the title (depending of course on the mancs following the Liverpool approach when Dalglish resigned by appointing a poor manager. ) If we follow the Fergie comparison to Liverpool that should be sometime in the next 6 or 7 years as Fergie has said he intends staying another 3 seasons, we should be expecting a title sometime after the year 2014 - yippeee

I don't know why sometimes ppl try to make things complicated... Bad Bob's post was as clear as crystal... there was no mention about "Fergie followers" and I didnt' see any mention about us having to wait until fergie retires to win the league...

I was combining my reply to the Fergie followers and to Bob. The Fergie followers are saying IT TOOK FERGIE 7 YEARS. It also took the resignation of Dalglish and the appointment of a poor manager in Souness.

So logically we would also have to wait till Fergie retires and the mancs appoint a poor manager.

Nothing complicated ....... at least for anyone who's not a moron.

In my honest opinion no one is saying or suggesting that we need to wait until fergie retires... at least not anyone that's not a moron... if you read the posts carefully and keep a clear head you will understand without any trouble...

and who the f@ck are "fergie followers"? no one is f@cking following fergie...

The Fergie followers are the ones that seem to think we should follow Fergie in allowing Rafa 7 years to win the title.
Its not that difficult to understand .... for anyone with more than half a brain anyway.

If you have trouble understanding posts maybe you should avoid commenting or maybe just try taking your head out of your a$$ now and then.

look it's clear that you think too much of yourself ... I'll let you have that... but don't put words into other ppl's mouths... did Bad Bob or LFC2007 or whoever said we need to give benitez 7 years the SAME as fergie? did anyone say we need to wait till fergie retires? if anyone suggested it... it was you... now go on... and don't be bitter...

Its seems pretty clear to me that you are a moron who can't seem to understand plain English maybe you were dropped as a child?

Try reading JBG'S post (or maybe just understanding), LFC'S -There isn't really an argument to be made against the fact that it took Ferguson 7 seasons to win the league. etc etc

If you continue to struggle to understand posts, PM me and I will explain in detail. Meanwhile try taking your head out of your a$$ and you might see more clearly.

Your not bitter, just a moron

by **maguskwt** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:20 pm

s@int wrote:Its seems pretty clear to me that you are a moron who can't seem to understand plain English maybe you were dropped as a child?

Try reading JBG'S post (or maybe just understanding), LFC'S -There isn't really an argument to be made against the fact that it took Ferguson 7 seasons to win the league. etc etc

If you continue to struggle to understand posts, PM me and I will explain in detail. Meanwhile try taking your head out of your a$$ and you might see more clearly.

Your not bitter, just a moron

so you selectively look at one line in someone's post and assume the post is all about what you think it is... :laugh:

... that only shows what you think about yourself...

never seen anyone as narrow minded as that...

I understand you must be abit embarrassed about your previous post by claiming intelligently "not many cases of patience bringing success" and as a result hit out unnecessarily at other ppl and calling them moron... :laugh:

because I've known from experience that you get red-faced easily and over-react unnecessarily... :laugh:

but hey I forgive you... because you coined the term "fergie followers" very intelligently... that's a good one :laugh:

by **maguskwt** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:32 pm

go ahead throw another one of your silly tantrums :laugh:

... i'm out...

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:38 pm

I don't seem to see the list you produced of patience being rewarded, as being a very successful or long one. :laugh:

Arsenal - who had to wait till he had completed one full season
Chelsea - who had to wait one full season
:laugh:

As I said if you can't understand a post its better not to comment. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

You appear to be the only person that fails to understand the point I was making. I would think hard about that (or as hard as you are able)

You shouldn't get to too upset about your lack of intelligence, many people go on to achieve a happy life despite their disabilities.

Don't forgive me - try forgiving yourself first, its an important first step.

As a Wum your not even second rate. You need more practise or maybe a few more brain cells

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