Liverpool FC Forum

by **Judge** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:35 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Judge wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

it took ferguson double that to win the league

sorry mate that dont wash with me.
This is new football now with new money.

dont make comparisons with chelsea, and blackburn some years back

you may not have mentioned them, but it is what makes you say what you said.

all things being equal it takes time to built a team capable of winning the league. once established then funding isnt the issue overall. Managers can buy carefully without the need to hurry and spend billions

Liverpool are like a deciduous tree in winter, all we need to do is make it evergreen. in other words put leaves on it, and what d'ya know - a winning combination.

that takes time.

i am right, you are wrong

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:50 pm

Judge wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Judge wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

it took ferguson double that to win the league

sorry mate that dont wash with me.
This is new football now with new money.

dont make comparisons with chelsea, and blackburn some years back

you may not have mentioned them, but it is what makes you say what you said.

all things being equal it takes time to built a team capable of winning the league. once established then funding isnt the issue overall. Managers can buy carefully without the need to hurry and spend billions

Liverpool are like a deciduous tree in winter, all we need to do is make it evergreen. in other words put leaves on it, and what d'ya know - a winning combination.

that takes time.

i am right, you are wrong

When GH was got rid of we was told that it was due to him saying that it would take a few more years to win the prem. Rafa was given the job as we needed to win the prem ASAP (TO STOP THE MANC FROM GETTING MORE THAT US).
Rafa has had the time he needs and the money and yet we are still not a top 2 power in the prem.

If the owners at the time could have seen he would not win the prem for 3 years i dont think he would have got the job.

Rafa is the best CL manager there is but his skills in the prem are poor and always will be.

by **dawson99** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:51 pm

as soon as rafa tries to win the league i'll be a happy man. we are not progressing at all whilst we are not getting any closer to the league. Id love to win the champs league again this year so we can forget it about it and go for what we all want, the premiership!!!

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:54 pm

dawson99 wrote:as soon as rafa tries to win the league i'll be a happy man. we are not progressing at all whilst we are not getting any closer to the league. Id love to win the champs league again this year so we can forget it about it and go for what we all want, the premiership!!!

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:01 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Still a few games to go, but heres where I see us at:

Three draws that could/should have been wins, (Wigan (h), Man City (a) and Birmingham (h) are three I would suggest where close enough) and a better reflection of the games against United and Chelsea at home (we outplayed both teams by a mile, would have beaten Chelse but for the ref and should have gotten a draw against United) would yeild us 9 points, whilst deducting one from Chelsea and two from United. The table would then look like this:

P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 34 24 6 4 72 18 53 78
2 Liverpool 34 22 13 3 60 26 34 75
3 Chelsea 33 22 7 4 58 23 35 73
4 Arsenal 34 20 11 3 64 29 35 71

These changes in results may well have been by not rotating, although an easier way would be the addition of two TOP QUALITY players would have seen us get those points.

Point being, not as far away as some might have us think.

"should have been wins"

football is not like that, you win or you dont.

I could say whe should have won the last two world cups but we did not.

Lewis Hamilton should have been F1 champ but he is not.

dont be silly we only have the points we have got and we must live with it.

god Darby could say they should have won 6 games this year but they did not.

you are trying to use this in defence for Rafa...all it shows is how he got it wrong.

Do you go the game ?

Do you watch the game ?

Do you listen to the game ?

Do you watch MOTD ?

If its just D, then fu.ck off as I will never be able to discuss the point with you, if its A, B or C then you will know what I mean by should have won. We totally and utterly bossed those games, and two players of the highest calibre in our team on those occasions would have seen a really big difference.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:02 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Judge wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Judge wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

it took ferguson double that to win the league

sorry mate that dont wash with me.
This is new football now with new money.

dont make comparisons with chelsea, and blackburn some years back

you may not have mentioned them, but it is what makes you say what you said.

all things being equal it takes time to built a team capable of winning the league. once established then funding isnt the issue overall. Managers can buy carefully without the need to hurry and spend billions

Liverpool are like a deciduous tree in winter, all we need to do is make it evergreen. in other words put leaves on it, and what d'ya know - a winning combination.

that takes time.

i am right, you are wrong

When GH was got rid of we was told that it was due to him saying that it would take a few more years to win the prem. Rafa was given the job as we needed to win the prem ASAP (TO STOP THE MANC FROM GETTING MORE THAT US).
Rafa has had the time he needs and the money and yet we are still not a top 2 power in the prem.

If the owners at the time could have seen he would not win the prem for 3 years i dont think he would have got the job.

Rafa is the best CL manager there is but his skills in the prem are poor and always will be.

Typical of the idiotic side of our support.

Do you really think that the board of this club made/makes/will make decisions simply to ensure MAnchester United do not overtake our league total ?

For Fuc.ks Sake

by **supersub** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:05 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

Dont apologise for making a point, instead apologise for your verbal dhiorrea.

Where you in on the board meeting that he was selected as the man in ? NO - so how on earth can you know how long he was given or the plan. Thats your opinion, and therfore its worth sh.it.

lakes10's opinion is always worth jacksh.it

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:31 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Still a few games to go, but heres where I see us at:

Three draws that could/should have been wins, (Wigan (h), Man City (a) and Birmingham (h) are three I would suggest where close enough) and a better reflection of the games against United and Chelsea at home (we outplayed both teams by a mile, would have beaten Chelse but for the ref and should have gotten a draw against United) would yeild us 9 points, whilst deducting one from Chelsea and two from United. The table would then look like this:

P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 34 24 6 4 72 18 53 78
2 Liverpool 34 22 13 3 60 26 34 75
3 Chelsea 33 22 7 4 58 23 35 73
4 Arsenal 34 20 11 3 64 29 35 71

These changes in results may well have been by not rotating, although an easier way would be the addition of two TOP QUALITY players would have seen us get those points.

Point being, not as far away as some might have us think.

"should have been wins"

football is not like that, you win or you dont.

I could say whe should have won the last two world cups but we did not.

Lewis Hamilton should have been F1 champ but he is not.

dont be silly we only have the points we have got and we must live with it.

god Darby could say they should have won 6 games this year but they did not.

you are trying to use this in defence for Rafa...all it shows is how he got it wrong.

Do you go the game ?

Do you watch the game ?

Do you listen to the game ?

Do you watch MOTD ?

If its just D, then fu.ck off as I will never be able to discuss the point with you, if its A, B or C then you will know what I mean by should have won. We totally and utterly bossed those games, and two players of the highest calibre in our team on those occasions would have seen a really big difference.

a b c
Look mate i know what you are trying to say but the fact is we did not get the points, i have often left a game and said we should have won that but deep down i still know if we did not win it when we could of should have then we did not play well enough to win.

we can be all over a team and not win but all that could mean is that we was great all over the field apart from in front of the goal.

if you dont take the points when they are there to be taken you can not say we should have them.......they dont give you the points because you look good.

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:32 pm

supersub wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

Dont apologise for making a point, instead apologise for your verbal dhiorrea.

Where you in on the board meeting that he was selected as the man in ? NO - so how on earth can you know how long he was given or the plan. Thats your opinion, and therfore its worth sh.it.

lakes10's opinion is always worth jacksh.it

lol thank you, and how much is jacksh.it worth today?

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:39 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Still a few games to go, but heres where I see us at:

Three draws that could/should have been wins, (Wigan (h), Man City (a) and Birmingham (h) are three I would suggest where close enough) and a better reflection of the games against United and Chelsea at home (we outplayed both teams by a mile, would have beaten Chelse but for the ref and should have gotten a draw against United) would yeild us 9 points, whilst deducting one from Chelsea and two from United. The table would then look like this:

P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 34 24 6 4 72 18 53 78
2 Liverpool 34 22 13 3 60 26 34 75
3 Chelsea 33 22 7 4 58 23 35 73
4 Arsenal 34 20 11 3 64 29 35 71

These changes in results may well have been by not rotating, although an easier way would be the addition of two TOP QUALITY players would have seen us get those points.

Point being, not as far away as some might have us think.

"should have been wins"

football is not like that, you win or you dont.

I could say whe should have won the last two world cups but we did not.

Lewis Hamilton should have been F1 champ but he is not.

dont be silly we only have the points we have got and we must live with it.

god Darby could say they should have won 6 games this year but they did not.

you are trying to use this in defence for Rafa...all it shows is how he got it wrong.

Do you go the game ?

Do you watch the game ?

Do you listen to the game ?

Do you watch MOTD ?

If its just D, then fu.ck off as I will never be able to discuss the point with you, if its A, B or C then you will know what I mean by should have won. We totally and utterly bossed those games, and two players of the highest calibre in our team on those occasions would have seen a really big difference.

a b c
Look mate i know what you are trying to say but the fact is we did not get the points, i have often left a game and said we should have won that but deep down i still know if we did not win it when we could of should have then we did not play well enough to win.

we can be all over a team and not win but all that could mean is that we was great all over the field apart from in front of the goal.

if you dont take the points when they are there to be taken you can not say we should have them.......they dont give you the points because you look good.

So two more TOP CLASS additions to the squad, played in those games would have helped, therfore we are not that far away.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:56 pm

I am disappointed with the progress we have made in the league this season. We spent around £20million on a new striker - who has turned out to be outstanding and worth probably double what we paid, £18million on one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and yet we have still struggled to make 4th in the league. £70million pounds on new players this season has seen us make little inroads against our rivals and still struggle against "little teams".

The backbone of the team is as strong as any in the premiership in my opinion, but the wide areas are probably as weak now as they were when Rafa came.

Babel has been inconsistant (being kind), Pennant , Benayoun and Riise have been certainly below the standard necessary for Title winning wide players while Kuyt has been a decent stopgap at best. Finnan, Arbeloa, Riise, Aurelio have been adequate defensively but hugely disappointing as any sort of attacking threat.

For me this season we have added two players to the "first team" in Mascherano and Torres and 2 potential first teamers in Babel and Lucas. Unfortunately. that may be enough to keep pace with our rivals, but not enough to make up the difference in quality. Skrtel has been OK but certainly no better than what we had (Agger and Hyypia) but was a necessary buy rather than an attempt at immediate improvement.

So £70million spent, Two buys unquestioned successes, 3 players reasonably successful (4 if you include Benayoun) and we have still not made a title challenge. What worries me is if spending £70million ( successfully) has only allowed us to maintain our top 4 position, how much do we need to spend to catch and overtake our rivals?

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:57 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Still a few games to go, but heres where I see us at:

Three draws that could/should have been wins, (Wigan (h), Man City (a) and Birmingham (h) are three I would suggest where close enough) and a better reflection of the games against United and Chelsea at home (we outplayed both teams by a mile, would have beaten Chelse but for the ref and should have gotten a draw against United) would yeild us 9 points, whilst deducting one from Chelsea and two from United. The table would then look like this:

P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 34 24 6 4 72 18 53 78
2 Liverpool 34 22 13 3 60 26 34 75
3 Chelsea 33 22 7 4 58 23 35 73
4 Arsenal 34 20 11 3 64 29 35 71

These changes in results may well have been by not rotating, although an easier way would be the addition of two TOP QUALITY players would have seen us get those points.

Point being, not as far away as some might have us think.

"should have been wins"

football is not like that, you win or you dont.

I could say whe should have won the last two world cups but we did not.

Lewis Hamilton should have been F1 champ but he is not.

dont be silly we only have the points we have got and we must live with it.

god Darby could say they should have won 6 games this year but they did not.

you are trying to use this in defence for Rafa...all it shows is how he got it wrong.

Do you go the game ?

Do you watch the game ?

Do you listen to the game ?

Do you watch MOTD ?

If its just D, then fu.ck off as I will never be able to discuss the point with you, if its A, B or C then you will know what I mean by should have won. We totally and utterly bossed those games, and two players of the highest calibre in our team on those occasions would have seen a really big difference.

a b c
Look mate i know what you are trying to say but the fact is we did not get the points, i have often left a game and said we should have won that but deep down i still know if we did not win it when we could of should have then we did not play well enough to win.

we can be all over a team and not win but all that could mean is that we was great all over the field apart from in front of the goal.

if you dont take the points when they are there to be taken you can not say we should have them.......they dont give you the points because you look good.

So two more TOP CLASS additions to the squad, played in those games would have helped, therfore we are not that far away.

my point being that we did not so we did not get the points.

more to the point was that Rafa did not know where is head was during that time.

I still feel that we have the team right now that could win the prem if used right, Rafa has got the team right this year but yet again his focus is on the CL.

We can not keep saying If, Could have, Should have. Rafa needs to be judged on what he has DONE this year, THE GOOD AND THE BAD.

For me he has got the right players but not used them right, he won us games but has lost us more.

he has spent some good money but wasted some aswell.

he has said some good thing and yet sometime he should have shut up.

overall on Rafa's progression , needs to learn more about the prem and English football.

by **cpc4eva** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:05 pm

FFS

having only lost 4 games all season so far the same as manure is progression

cl semi final once again - 3 in 4 years is progression

not being 21 points behind the overall leaders is progression

rafa being able to keep us in a cl spot for next season while he gets openly back stabbed is progression

rafa knows we are lacking in defence and im sure he will rectify this properly

skertel has been solid so far and now hypia staying on with carra our defence is becoming feared as it should be...

weve got a good list of players coming through the reserves and u18s so that is progression aswell

rafa stopping his every game rotation is progression

rafa acting ahead of the transfer window starting is progression - im dying to know who the 3 players he has already signed up will be

not getting thumped by arsenal like this happened below is progression

2006/11/12 Arsenal 3 - 0 Liverpool
2006/12/19 Liverpool 0 - 0 Arsenal
2007/01/06 Liverpool 1 - 3 Arsenal
2007/01/09 Liverpool 3 - 6 Arsenal

our worst defeat this year 3-0 by manure and it was so shonky just like gay ronaldos penalty given over arsenal at the weekend...

being able to do this with a 30million interest repayment hanging over the club - thanks for the debt and bad memories hicks and gillett

being able to do this with no 80,000 plus stadium and no 20,000 plus kop stand being built is progression

being able to do this without the 100s of millions chelsea have spent for back to back premerships but no cl success is progression

We must keep rafa

We must get rid of hicks, gillett, parry, moores

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:12 pm

lakes10 wrote:more to the point was that Rafa did not know where is head was during that time.

Fuc.king Hell, what the fu.ck, how could you do that.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:22 pm

Havent we got feckin enough goin on with the owners at the moment to be moaning and picking on Rafa after the feckin back stabbing shananigans that have taken place.

Those of you wanting Rafa out probably wont have to wait much longer and Ill love the topics this time next year when the like of Big Sam is the manager.

Losing Rafa now will set us back about 10 years.

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