Liverpool FC Forum

by **kazza** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:47 am

PosTeam P W D L F A GD Pts

1 Chelsea 38 29 8 1 72 15 57 95
2 Arsenal 38 25 8 5 87 36 51 83
3 Manchester United 38 22 11 5 58 26 32 77
4 Everton 38 18 7 13 45 46 -1 61
5 Liverpool 38 17 7 14 52 41 11 58
6 Bolton Wanderers 38 16 10 12 49 44 5 58
7 Middlesbrough 38 14 13 11 53 46 7 55
Barclays Premiership Table -2005

Pos Team P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Chelsea 38 29 4 5 72 22 50 91
2 Manchester United 38 25 8 5 72 34 38 83
3 Liverpool 38 25 7 6 57 25 32 82
4 Arsenal 38 20 7 11 68 31 37 67
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 18 11 9 53 38 15 65
6 Blackburn Rovers 38 19 6 13 51 42 9 63
7 Newcastle United 38 17 7 14 47 42 5 58
Barclays Premiership Table -2006

Pos Team P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 38 28 5 5 83 27 56 89
2 Chelsea 38 24 11 3 64 24 40 83
3 Liverpool 38 20 8 10 57 27 30 68
4 Arsenal 38 19 11 8 63 35 28 68
5 Tottenham Hotspur 38 17 9 12 57 54 3 60
6 Everton 38 15 13 10 52 36 16 58
7 Bolton Wanderers 38 16 8 14 47 52 -5 56
Barclays Premiership Table -2007

P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 34 25 5 4 72 18 54 80
2 Chelsea 33 22 8 3 58 23 35 74
3 Arsenal 34 20 11 3 64 29 35 71
4 Liverpool 34 18 12 4 60 26 34 66
5 Everton 34 18 7 9 50 28 22 61
6 Portsmouth 34 16 9 9 47 33 14 57
As of today

**************************

The reason for this thread is I was looking at the league tables since Raffa came to us and it was interesting to see the progression we have made under him. From the team that he inherited that lost a whopping fourteen games and finished fifth (thank God we won the CL that year) to the team we have now. Last year we lost ten games and I remember hearing that we needed to convert those losses into draws which this year we have done. Now the thinking is we need to convert some of our draws (twelve so far this year) into wins. Even our goal difference has improved consistantly.

When you look at the fact that we have lost the same amount games as Utd (the probable winners this year) I do not feel we as far away as many seem to be claiming. I think Utd just know how to win, which is evident by the amout of times they should not have won but managed to sneak a goal at the end. This is a product of confidence. A couple of good players this summer and we will be right there rotation or not.

We are moving forward and Raffa must stay in charge and finish the job. I think he is building something special here and if we can win that first title we will have a dynasty and will be the team to beat as we have a fair few players yet to reach their prime.

On the rotation front, it is nice to see finally that even when the team's rotated now it does not seem to affect their performance. It is funny what a bit of confidence will do.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:19 pm

I think Utd just know how to win

Agreed, and thats what makes the difference between them and us.

I think this season we could of been amongst the mix more closely if it wasnt for our early season form/team selections and what not. We tinkered IMO to early and have missed out again.

Looking at the current team and personel picked, I just wonder how much if atall closer we'd of ran the other three if Rafa had discovered this formation earlier on in the campaign and of course stuck with it.

The debatable side of this is next season, for the life of me I just cannot see Rafa playing a sttled team at the begining of next season, especialy as he has the European championships to help his excuses of 'heavy rotation'.

Progress has been made ....Slightly as those tables show, but for the amount of money hes spent personally I would of liked to of seen that progress made be on doubt.

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:35 pm

Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

by **Judge** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:05 pm

lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

it took ferguson double that to win the league

by **tubby** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:07 pm

If it wasnt for out exploits in Europe he probabaly would be walking on ice right now if he hadnt already been sacked. We lack the ability take games by the scruff of the neck and get 3 points on a regular basis.

by **tubby** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:08 pm

Judge wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

it took ferguson double that to win the league

Whilst that may be true you cant say that these days. No club spending the sort of money it takes to challange for the premiership would give any manager 10 years any more. Times have changed.

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:10 pm

Judge wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

it took ferguson double that to win the league

sorry mate that dont wash with me.
This is new football now with new money.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:45 pm

Is it just coincidental that our best points haul under Rafa was the season we exited the CL early (to Benfica March 8th) ? .

by **stmichael** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:49 pm

i think we've progressed. we've scored goals for fun this season. our main problem this season has been that we haven't defended anywhere near as well as we have in recent seasons. some of our defending at home against villa, wigan and tottenham was nothing short of farcical.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:53 pm

lakes10 wrote:Sorry but our progression in the Prem under raffa has been negligible. what makes it negligible is that we can still not get into the top 2 and he has not won it( he got the job to win it in 3 or 4 years).

Dont apologise for making a point, instead apologise for your verbal dhiorrea.

Where you in on the board meeting that he was selected as the man in ? NO - so how on earth can you know how long he was given or the plan. Thats your opinion, and therfore its worth sh.it.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:01 pm

Still a few games to go, but heres where I see us at:

Three draws that could/should have been wins, (Wigan (h), Man City (a) and Birmingham (h) are three I would suggest where close enough) and a better reflection of the games against United and Chelsea at home (we outplayed both teams by a :censored:

mile, would have beaten Chelse but for the ref and should have gotten a draw against United) would yeild us 9 points, whilst deducting one from Chelsea and two from United. The table would then look like this:

P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 34 24 6 4 72 18 53 78
2 Liverpool 34 22 13 3 60 26 34 75
3 Chelsea 33 22 7 4 58 23 35 73
4 Arsenal 34 20 11 3 64 29 35 71

These changes in results may well have been by not rotating, although an easier way would be the addition of two TOP QUALITY players would have seen us get those points.

Point being, not as far away as some might have us think.

by **stmichael** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:07 pm

yeah we essentially lost it in a five game period around the turn of the new year for me. we were well in the mix but then dropped too many points:

man city (a) drew 0-0
wigan (h) drew 1-1
middlesbrough (a) drew 1-1
aston villa (h) drew 2-2
west ham (a) lost 1-0

we battered man city and should have won, conceded a daft goal to wigan, played poorly at boro, battered villa and somehow contrived to concede two daft goals and were poor at west ham.

too many draws which should have been wins due to some poor defending. in past seasons it's been the attack which has let us down but this season it's been the other way around.

by **lakes10** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:09 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:Still a few games to go, but heres where I see us at:

Three draws that could/should have been wins, (Wigan (h), Man City (a) and Birmingham (h) are three I would suggest where close enough) and a better reflection of the games against United and Chelsea at home (we outplayed both teams by a mile, would have beaten Chelse but for the ref and should have gotten a draw against United) would yeild us 9 points, whilst deducting one from Chelsea and two from United. The table would then look like this:

P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Manchester United 34 24 6 4 72 18 53 78
2 Liverpool 34 22 13 3 60 26 34 75
3 Chelsea 33 22 7 4 58 23 35 73
4 Arsenal 34 20 11 3 64 29 35 71

These changes in results may well have been by not rotating, although an easier way would be the addition of two TOP QUALITY players would have seen us get those points.

Point being, not as far away as some might have us think.

"should have been wins"

football is not like that, you win or you dont.

I could say whe should have won the last two world cups but we did not.

Lewis Hamilton should have been F1 champ but he is not.

dont be silly we only have the points we have got and we must live with it.

god Darby could say they should have won 6 games this year but they did not.

you are trying to use this in defence for Rafa...all it shows is how he got it wrong.

by **Big Niall** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:16 pm

If Rafa starts next season with his best team and sticks to it - no resting Torres two games into the season then we have a chance.

If he rotates from the start- then he/we don't.

He shouldn't be resting the big players before CL games as the back up players are not good enough to win premiership games consistently.

by **MR C** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:18 pm

lets face it rafa and the premiership don't get on.i can't see him dominating the prem.
for now lets just enjoy all the champions league he could win us,then when that stops we give him the boot....for the great martin oneil who has done....not much.

this is only liverpools 6th champions league season since the new name given to it....haven't we done well unlike manure-nited who has been in since the new name in 92/93 season. we need to keep reminding them of this,they hate it.

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