Liverpool FC Forum

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:27 am

LFC2007 wrote:The example you give was over a decade ago and was only one example anyway, if you can name a few recent examples of top class players please do.

Agbonglahor went out on loan to both Sheff Wed and Watford. Now Villa are seeing the best of the young midlands lad.

Scott Carson, Chris Kirkland and Ben Foster have all be loaned out by a top club and have all gone onto represent their country.

Curtis Davies has been loaned from WBA to Villa this season and was called up for England under Capello.

John Terry was loaned out to Notts Forest, he's went on to captain club and country.

David Bentley spent years on loan at Norwhich and Blackburn, now he's being tipped as England's number one right winger.

Enough examples for you mate, or shall I go on? Bentner (with Birmingham) Djourou (with Birmingham) Steven Taylor was on loan at Wycombe in his early days, now he's captaining the England U-21s. David Wheater was on loan from Boro, now he's been able to replace Jonathon Woodgate at the heart of the Boro defense. Stewart Downing was on loan from Boro to Sunderland, now he's part of every England squad. I'll leave it at those, for you to chew it over.

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:30 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:The example you give was over a decade ago and was only one example anyway, if you can name a few recent examples of top class players please do.

Agbonglahor went out on loan to both Sheff Wed and Watford. Now Villa are seeing the best of the young midlands lad.

Scott Carson, Chris Kirkland and Ben Foster have all be loaned out by a top club and have all gone onto represent their country.

Curtis Davies has been loaned from WBA to Villa this season and was called up for England under Capello.

John Terry was loaned out to Notts Forest, he's went on to captain club and country.

David Bentley spent years on loan at Norwhich and Blackburn, now he's being tipped as England's number one right winger.

Enough examples for you mate, or shall I go on? Bentner (with Birmingham) Djourou (with Birmingham) Steven Taylor was on loan at Wycombe in his early days, now he's captaining the England U-21s. David Wheater was on loan from Boro, now he's been able to replace Jonathon Woodgate at the heart of the Boro defense. Stewart Downing was on loan from Boro to Sunderland, now he's part of every England squad. I'll leave it at those, for you to chew it over.

Top class players

Unfortunately, most of those players fail to meet the criteria.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:31 am

Terry is top class. Bentley IMO and many others is top class. The majority others have the POTENTIONAL to be top class (just like Anderson)

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:32 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Loaning a youngster out obviously means there not good enough? Correct me if I'm wrong but former England captain and a man who has 99 caps to his name David Beckham was loaned out to Preston when they were in the same division as Swansea are now. What a bad decision it is to loan players out.

I follow the football leagues in England very closely and I've seen Paul Anderson along with the rest of the Swansea side perform to a level that could cope in the Prem. Obviously they would struggle, but at the moment Swansea play better football than andDerby, Fulham, Reading, Wigan, Bolton Birmingham. Anderson has been at the hub of everything good Swansea have done this season. He's gaining vital first team football and at the start of next season (if he's at Liverpool) he'll take this year's form on and could make the right wing his own if he had the desire to.

i think if Derby, Fulham, Reading, Wigan, Bolton and birmingham were playing in the same league as swansea and not the prem the standard of football they play would improve ten fold because they would be playing inferior opposition so i cant aree we that statement but i do think anderson is a promising talent and atleast deserves a chance in the first team

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:38 am

Terry, granted.

Agbonlahor isn't top class but I'd take him because has a lot of ability, potential (to be top class) and a great attitude.

Bentley isn't top class, but I'd probably take him for the right wing.

Other than that the rest aren't top class and don't have the potential to be top class (IMO). Only so many players, a select few, can be considered 'top class'. You need so many top class players in your team to be successful, particularly in attacking areas.

Very few top class players (I mean TOP class players - title winning class) are loaned out when they're young nowadays, because if they're that good they'll get noticed by the manager.

I don't think Anderson has the POTENTIONAL (

) , but we'll see.

by **redtrader74** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:51 am

With everyone foaming at the mouth for the League, RAfa cannot afford to take a chance in the next transfer window on an unproven lower league player, he HAS to buy proven quality only who will need a minimal bedding in period, some LFC fans are not willing to wait anymore.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:37 am

Well what's proven then? A gamble from abroad or a lad who knows the premiership inside out?

I'd be happy to see Anderson given a go next year. He's looked a real quality player in League 1 this season, fair enough it's a huge step up from that divison to the the top flight, but he's looked head and shoulders above anything else in League 1 which means he's far to good for that division, and with the likes of Gerrard and Torres helping him bed into the first side he could easily save us that 15 million plus price tag that we'd have to spend on "top class winger"

by **RedBlood** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:11 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Well what's proven then? A gamble from abroad or a lad who knows the premiership inside out?

I'd be happy to see Anderson given a go next year. He's looked a real quality player in League 1 this season, fair enough it's a huge step up from that divison to the the top flight, but he's looked head and shoulders above anything else in League 1 which means he's far to good for that division, and with the likes of Gerrard and Torres helping him bed into the first side he could easily save us that 15 million plus price tag that we'd have to spend on "top class winger"

im not saying he isnt head and shoulders above everyone esle in the league because i rate the lad and he could well be...but to say that you would hae to have seen every team and player in the league a few times....... have you?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:55 pm

RedBlood wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Well what's proven then? A gamble from abroad or a lad who knows the premiership inside out?

I'd be happy to see Anderson given a go next year. He's looked a real quality player in League 1 this season, fair enough it's a huge step up from that divison to the the top flight, but he's looked head and shoulders above anything else in League 1 which means he's far to good for that division, and with the likes of Gerrard and Torres helping him bed into the first side he could easily save us that 15 million plus price tag that we'd have to spend on "top class winger"

im not saying he isnt head and shoulders above everyone esle in the league because i rate the lad and he could well be...but to say that you would hae to have seen every team and player in the league a few times....... have you?

I watch the big weekend on sky which shows all the lower league goals and highlights.

I think from those short clips (obviously not a fair assessment) Anderson has looked the best player in that division, maybe with Jermaine Beckford from Leeds.

I'm surprised people who are questioning it haven't used Stephen Warnock as an example. He went on loan to Coventry and shone at Highfield Road (old Coventry ground) but when he made the step up many people felt he wasn't good enough. I again always liked Warnock, thought if he could stay clear of injuries, he could of made left back his own, Mr Benitez had other ideas and finally shipped him off to Blackburn, where he's going about his buisness quitely but doing an invaluable job.

by **LFC2007** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:50 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I'm surprised people who are questioning it haven't used Stephen Warnock as an example. He went on loan to Coventry and shone at Highfield Road (old Coventry ground) but when he made the step up many people felt he wasn't good enough. I again always liked Warnock, thought if he could stay clear of injuries, he could of made left back his own, Mr Benitez had other ideas and finally shipped him off to Blackburn, where he's going about his buisness quitely but doing an invaluable job.

I suppose had Mr Benitez stuck with him and played him regularly he'd be the world's best left-back by now.

Well what's proven then? A gamble from abroad or a lad who knows the premiership inside out?

It doesn't matter where they're from, players who ply their trade in the EPL are no more or less of a gamble than those who ply their trade abroad. It's all about the quality of the player, and their attitude.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:31 pm

for me Warnock was our best left back. certainly the bravest we've seen since joey jones.

As for a where a player comes from then we agree. It's just as much of a gamble to sign a english based player as it is to sign one from abroad, my question was however, what's classed as proven? A lad who has shown he can score goals in Spain and France (Morientes/Cisse) or a lad who's shown he can score goals in England? It's a gamble either way but until we sign someone it's irrelevant discussing where they come from.

by **liado** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:02 pm

ruskiy playmaker wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Insua-Silva?

Alves-Mancini (in my dreams) (well not really in my dreams:D ) ?

I don't know about Silva, the more I watch him at Valencia the more I think he's not going to make it in EPL. He's way to soft and too short but I could be wrong. I also have doubts about Insua because he's also pretty short and he'd have to be really good in all of his game to make up for it. If we choose to improve in wide areas, I hope we go for players like Abidal, players who have a lot of pace and power.

I am agree with you only in part. There is still on chance for short guys in modern fooball, That´s it: Being the best.In my opinion is very difficult to play not being strong/tall enough in modern football but at the same time in my opinion only very,very few (the short and soft ones) can be/became the best.At the end of the day it may be a taste on what you wanna see or expect from a football player.However, my asthetical taste comes from "short" players
For me , one can keep with Ronaldo´s pace, strenght, and his no sense bicycle kicks,goals etc...that I don care....I Would never change him for Messi for instance (1m 65 cm by the way) in a million years

I was there.....(unfortunatelly I think I will never see something like that from Ronaldo, again...football taste)
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGud9vKGapA

2) This guy it is not very tall (sorry for posting this :blush:

)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jICx9Z6N3sc

3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrao0ROwpAM&feature=related

4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2p_-9ri7qA
you can quote me on this a)Silva´s goal is still to come..
b)there is not a defense in PL who silva can not fool.

And On 1,2,3,4 there was nothing played for the gallery.

by **Raoul** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:40 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Bamaga man wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:all central, funny enough it's the wide players who come in for stick.

Because they're not good enough. Sort out our wide positions and we're there or there abouts.

our wide players, don't get the same chances to build up that relationship with one another. It's one week Aurellio and Babel down the left. Then Aurellio and Kewell. Then Riise and Kewell. Then Aurellio and Riise.

It doesn't matter if they're not good enough.

So your saying the likes of Aurelio and Babel who Rafa paid 11 million for are not good enough ....... GREAT.

Correct, for the left wing they are not good enough.

So does that mean Rafa has not only wasted 11 million on Babel, but he plays him out of position ....... GREAT.

No, he may well be useful in the future as a forward.

But what about the LW position, hasnt Rafa failed to address this position then if Aurelio, Riise, Kewell and the stop gap of 11 million are not good enough to play this role.

Yes.

Well, to be fair to Mr Benetiz, I think many on this board were expecting (well, hoping with a little expectation) to finally see the real Kewell - after some good performances before Babel arrived, the Aussie's demise is more complete than I'd guess many would have expected. It may be that Rafa has been forced to rely much more on Babel out left than he anticipated...

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