Liverpool FC Forum

[Bad Bob]

Right Side
Pennant -- not good enough as a starter but still has his uses (keep as a squad player)
Benayoun -- lightweight and positionally poor in wide berths but still has his uses (keep as a squad player)
Gerrard -- clearly good enough but I prefer him where he is now or at CM (keep  )
Finnan -- good enough but getting on (keep but phase out)
Arbeloa -- good enough but not top drawer (keep and give him the chance to make the position his own next season)
Carragher -- must remain a CB!!! (keep  )

What about Kuyt? I think he can now be classed as a right midfielder/winger.

Kuyt has impressed me far more playing in this inside right position than he has as a supporting striker.  That said, I don't think he has enough attacking guile to be anything more than a stop-gap there.  He has put some decent balls into the box in recent weeks and his terrier-like closing down has its uses--he's like a second Mascherano at times, except without the pace and death-defying sliding tackles --but we'll need more out of that position against well-organized teams that look to stop us from playing.  I'd say not good enough but I'd be inclined to keep him as a squad player at this stage (unless the right offer came in or we had several quality strikers join up).

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Out of the 12, seven are signings of Benitez. So in four years Benitez hasn't signed a right/left winger/full back of any quality?

Not quite.  I rate both Aurelio and Arbeloa as good signings and Insua may yet prove to be as well, so Rafa's done alright with fullbacks.  As for Pennant, while I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a title-challenging side, he also hasn't been a terrible buy.  He filled a gaping hole when he arrived but we now need to take a step up in attacking quality and he's not got it in him to make that leap, IMO.  Turning to Babel, I think he may turn out to be a good buy but much will depend on his attitude.  He's got the raw talent to be a special player but I'm not convinced at all about his mentality yet.  I also don't think he has enough in his locker to nail down the LM berth.  He's far too predictable and good defenders will have him in their pocket.

If Rafa does have a glaring weakness in the transfer market, though, I'd say it is his eye for wide midfielders.  Hopefully he'll have the money to spend on someone quality out wide this summer and not a stop-gap or a potential diamond in the rough.

Swansea are walking away with League 1 and their player of the year is on loan midfielder Paul Anderson. An attacking right winger who's proving he has talent, even if it is two divisions lower than the Premiership. So if people are complaing about our wide right position, we have another talented youngster who'd save us a 15 million plus price tag.

Left wing, I've been impressed by Babel. A little inconsistent this season, but in two to three years he'll be as good as anything in the league. I'm not so sure about Babel up front. His pace is exceptional but centre halfs will kick him to kingdom come and I don't know if he's strong enough to keep getting back up and taking more kicks. On the left wing he doesn't put up with so much of the physical side of the game which would suit him better.

[Bad Bob]

Out of the 12, seven are signings of Benitez. So in four years Benitez hasn't signed a right/left winger/full back of any quality?

Not quite.  I rate both Aurelio and Arbeloa as good signings and Insua may yet prove to be as well, so Rafa's done alright with fullbacks.  As for Pennant, while I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a title-challenging side, he also hasn't been a terrible buy.  He filled a gaping hole when he arrived but we now need to take a step up in attacking quality and he's not got it in him to make that leap, IMO.  Turning to Babel, I think he may turn out to be a good buy but much will depend on his attitude.  He's got the raw talent to be a special player but I'm not convinced at all about his mentality yet.  I also don't think he has enough in his locker to nail down the LM berth.  He's far too predictable and good defenders will have him in their pocket.

If Rafa does have a glaring weakness in the transfer market, though, I'd say it is his eye for wide midfielders.  Hopefully he'll have the money to spend on someone quality out wide this summer and not a stop-gap or a potential diamond in the rough.

Swansea are walking away with League 1 and their player of the year is on loan midfielder Paul Anderson. An attacking right winger who's proving he has talent, even if it is two divisions lower than the Premiership. So if people are complaing about our wide right position, we have another talented youngster who'd save us a 15 million plus price tag.

Left wing, I've been impressed by Babel. A little inconsistent this season, but in two to three years he'll be as good as anything in the league. I'm not so sure about Babel up front. His pace is exceptional but centre halfs will kick him to kingdom come and I don't know if he's strong enough to keep getting back up and taking more kicks. On the left wing he doesn't put up with so much of the physical side of the game which would suit him better.

It's a big, big, big step up from Swansea to starting RM at Liverpool.  Fair play to the kid if he gets his chance and takes it.  I somehow doubt we'll ever see him start a Premiership match for us, however, if he's being loaned to a First Division club.

It's a good point about Babel, though--can he handle being kicked all game?  Again, it goes back to my concerns about his bottle and his mentality.  I'm not sure he gets at that much easier on the flanks mind you, as fullbacks still try to kick him into touch.  He does seem to find more chances to pull out of 50/50 challenges out there, though.  Honestly, I don't want to be harsh and I truly hope he comes good and shows us the talent we know he has on a consistent basis but, in truth, I've seen enough this season to have considerable doubts about a part of his game that I just don't think you can train.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Out of the 12, seven are signings of Benitez. So in four years Benitez hasn't signed a right/left winger/full back of any quality?

Not quite.  I rate both Aurelio and Arbeloa as good signings and Insua may yet prove to be as well, so Rafa's done alright with fullbacks.  As for Pennant, while I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a title-challenging side, he also hasn't been a terrible buy.  He filled a gaping hole when he arrived but we now need to take a step up in attacking quality and he's not got it in him to make that leap, IMO.  Turning to Babel, I think he may turn out to be a good buy but much will depend on his attitude.  He's got the raw talent to be a special player but I'm not convinced at all about his mentality yet.  I also don't think he has enough in his locker to nail down the LM berth.  He's far too predictable and good defenders will have him in their pocket.

If Rafa does have a glaring weakness in the transfer market, though, I'd say it is his eye for wide midfielders.  Hopefully he'll have the money to spend on someone quality out wide this summer and not a stop-gap or a potential diamond in the rough.

Swansea are walking away with League 1 and their player of the year is on loan midfielder Paul Anderson. An attacking right winger who's proving he has talent, even if it is two divisions lower than the Premiership. So if people are complaing about our wide right position, we have another talented youngster who'd save us a 15 million plus price tag.

Left wing, I've been impressed by Babel. A little inconsistent this season, but in two to three years he'll be as good as anything in the league. I'm not so sure about Babel up front. His pace is exceptional but centre halfs will kick him to kingdom come and I don't know if he's strong enough to keep getting back up and taking more kicks. On the left wing he doesn't put up with so much of the physical side of the game which would suit him better.

It's a big, big, big step up from Swansea to starting RM at Liverpool.  Fair play to the kid if he gets his chance and takes it.  I somehow doubt we'll ever see him start a Premiership match for us, however, if he's being loaned to a First Division club.

It's a good point about Babel, though--can he handle being kicked all game?  Again, it goes back to my concerns about his bottle and his mentality.  I'm not sure he gets at that much easier on the flanks mind you, as fullbacks still try to kick him into touch.  He does seem to find more chances to pull out of 50/50 challenges out there, though.  Honestly, I don't want to be harsh and I truly hope he comes good and shows us the talent we know he has on a consistent basis but, in truth, I've seen enough this season to have considerable doubts about a part of his game that I just don't think you can train.

It may be a huge step up from Swansea to Liverpool, but my whole point on circumstances like this is the only way you know if a player can make is by giving them a go. I'm happy enough with Pennant (even if not many others are) but Anderson COULD be the answer and save us millions.

As for Babel, full backs like to kick you but there's a difference between being kicked by John Terry to being kicked by Belletti. He suits the left wing better than up front because it isn't as physical out there, especially considering there aren't many right wingers who's going to be throwing crunching tackles on Babel. So if his mentality isn't right and he isn't up for the physical side of the English game (yet) then it's better to leave him out wide than risk him up front.

[LFC2007]

Out of the 12, seven are signings of Benitez. So in four years Benitez hasn't signed a right/left winger/full back of any quality?

Not quite.  I rate both Aurelio and Arbeloa as good signings and Insua may yet prove to be as well, so Rafa's done alright with fullbacks.  As for Pennant, while I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a title-challenging side, he also hasn't been a terrible buy.  He filled a gaping hole when he arrived but we now need to take a step up in attacking quality and he's not got it in him to make that leap, IMO.  Turning to Babel, I think he may turn out to be a good buy but much will depend on his attitude.  He's got the raw talent to be a special player but I'm not convinced at all about his mentality yet.  I also don't think he has enough in his locker to nail down the LM berth.  He's far too predictable and good defenders will have him in their pocket.

If Rafa does have a glaring weakness in the transfer market, though, I'd say it is his eye for wide midfielders.  Hopefully he'll have the money to spend on someone quality out wide this summer and not a stop-gap or a potential diamond in the rough.

Swansea are walking away with League 1 and their player of the year is on loan midfielder Paul Anderson. An attacking right winger who's proving he has talent, even if it is two divisions lower than the Premiership. So if people are complaing about our wide right position, we have another talented youngster who'd save us a 15 million plus price tag.

Left wing, I've been impressed by Babel. A little inconsistent this season, but in two to three years he'll be as good as anything in the league. I'm not so sure about Babel up front. His pace is exceptional but centre halfs will kick him to kingdom come and I don't know if he's strong enough to keep getting back up and taking more kicks. On the left wing he doesn't put up with so much of the physical side of the game which would suit him better.

It's a big, big, big step up from Swansea to starting RM at Liverpool.  Fair play to the kid if he gets his chance and takes it.  I somehow doubt we'll ever see him start a Premiership match for us, however, if he's being loaned to a First Division club.

It's a good point about Babel, though--can he handle being kicked all game?  Again, it goes back to my concerns about his bottle and his mentality.  I'm not sure he gets at that much easier on the flanks mind you, as fullbacks still try to kick him into touch.  He does seem to find more chances to pull out of 50/50 challenges out there, though.  Honestly, I don't want to be harsh and I truly hope he comes good and shows us the talent we know he has on a consistent basis but, in truth, I've seen enough this season to have considerable doubts about a part of his game that I just don't think you can train.

It may be a huge step up from Swansea to Liverpool, but my whole point on circumstances like this is the only way you know if a player can make is by giving them a go. I'm happy enough with Pennant (even if not many others are) but Anderson COULD be the answer and save us millions.

I COULD learn to fly.

[maguskwt]

Out of the 12, seven are signings of Benitez. So in four years Benitez hasn't signed a right/left winger/full back of any quality?

Not quite.  I rate both Aurelio and Arbeloa as good signings and Insua may yet prove to be as well, so Rafa's done alright with fullbacks.  As for Pennant, while I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a title-challenging side, he also hasn't been a terrible buy.  He filled a gaping hole when he arrived but we now need to take a step up in attacking quality and he's not got it in him to make that leap, IMO.  Turning to Babel, I think he may turn out to be a good buy but much will depend on his attitude.  He's got the raw talent to be a special player but I'm not convinced at all about his mentality yet.  I also don't think he has enough in his locker to nail down the LM berth.  He's far too predictable and good defenders will have him in their pocket.

If Rafa does have a glaring weakness in the transfer market, though, I'd say it is his eye for wide midfielders.  Hopefully he'll have the money to spend on someone quality out wide this summer and not a stop-gap or a potential diamond in the rough.

Swansea are walking away with League 1 and their player of the year is on loan midfielder Paul Anderson. An attacking right winger who's proving he has talent, even if it is two divisions lower than the Premiership. So if people are complaing about our wide right position, we have another talented youngster who'd save us a 15 million plus price tag.

Left wing, I've been impressed by Babel. A little inconsistent this season, but in two to three years he'll be as good as anything in the league. I'm not so sure about Babel up front. His pace is exceptional but centre halfs will kick him to kingdom come and I don't know if he's strong enough to keep getting back up and taking more kicks. On the left wing he doesn't put up with so much of the physical side of the game which would suit him better.

It's a big, big, big step up from Swansea to starting RM at Liverpool.  Fair play to the kid if he gets his chance and takes it.  I somehow doubt we'll ever see him start a Premiership match for us, however, if he's being loaned to a First Division club.

It's a good point about Babel, though--can he handle being kicked all game?  Again, it goes back to my concerns about his bottle and his mentality.  I'm not sure he gets at that much easier on the flanks mind you, as fullbacks still try to kick him into touch.  He does seem to find more chances to pull out of 50/50 challenges out there, though.  Honestly, I don't want to be harsh and I truly hope he comes good and shows us the talent we know he has on a consistent basis but, in truth, I've seen enough this season to have considerable doubts about a part of his game that I just don't think you can train.

It may be a huge step up from Swansea to Liverpool, but my whole point on circumstances like this is the only way you know if a player can make is by giving them a go. I'm happy enough with Pennant (even if not many others are) but Anderson COULD be the answer and save us millions.

I COULD learn to fly.

...seriously though scouring the lower leagues and academies for local talent MIGHT be a good idea if we're cash strapped...

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Out of the 12, seven are signings of Benitez. So in four years Benitez hasn't signed a right/left winger/full back of any quality?

Not quite.  I rate both Aurelio and Arbeloa as good signings and Insua may yet prove to be as well, so Rafa's done alright with fullbacks.  As for Pennant, while I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a title-challenging side, he also hasn't been a terrible buy.  He filled a gaping hole when he arrived but we now need to take a step up in attacking quality and he's not got it in him to make that leap, IMO.  Turning to Babel, I think he may turn out to be a good buy but much will depend on his attitude.  He's got the raw talent to be a special player but I'm not convinced at all about his mentality yet.  I also don't think he has enough in his locker to nail down the LM berth.  He's far too predictable and good defenders will have him in their pocket.

If Rafa does have a glaring weakness in the transfer market, though, I'd say it is his eye for wide midfielders.  Hopefully he'll have the money to spend on someone quality out wide this summer and not a stop-gap or a potential diamond in the rough.

Swansea are walking away with League 1 and their player of the year is on loan midfielder Paul Anderson. An attacking right winger who's proving he has talent, even if it is two divisions lower than the Premiership. So if people are complaing about our wide right position, we have another talented youngster who'd save us a 15 million plus price tag.

Left wing, I've been impressed by Babel. A little inconsistent this season, but in two to three years he'll be as good as anything in the league. I'm not so sure about Babel up front. His pace is exceptional but centre halfs will kick him to kingdom come and I don't know if he's strong enough to keep getting back up and taking more kicks. On the left wing he doesn't put up with so much of the physical side of the game which would suit him better.

It's a big, big, big step up from Swansea to starting RM at Liverpool.  Fair play to the kid if he gets his chance and takes it.  I somehow doubt we'll ever see him start a Premiership match for us, however, if he's being loaned to a First Division club.

It's a good point about Babel, though--can he handle being kicked all game?  Again, it goes back to my concerns about his bottle and his mentality.  I'm not sure he gets at that much easier on the flanks mind you, as fullbacks still try to kick him into touch.  He does seem to find more chances to pull out of 50/50 challenges out there, though.  Honestly, I don't want to be harsh and I truly hope he comes good and shows us the talent we know he has on a consistent basis but, in truth, I've seen enough this season to have considerable doubts about a part of his game that I just don't think you can train.

It may be a huge step up from Swansea to Liverpool, but my whole point on circumstances like this is the only way you know if a player can make is by giving them a go. I'm happy enough with Pennant (even if not many others are) but Anderson COULD be the answer and save us millions.

I COULD learn to fly.

If you do then make sure you don't have any wings and just crash 

[LFC2007]

Out of the 12, seven are signings of Benitez. So in four years Benitez hasn't signed a right/left winger/full back of any quality?

Not quite.  I rate both Aurelio and Arbeloa as good signings and Insua may yet prove to be as well, so Rafa's done alright with fullbacks.  As for Pennant, while I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a title-challenging side, he also hasn't been a terrible buy.  He filled a gaping hole when he arrived but we now need to take a step up in attacking quality and he's not got it in him to make that leap, IMO.  Turning to Babel, I think he may turn out to be a good buy but much will depend on his attitude.  He's got the raw talent to be a special player but I'm not convinced at all about his mentality yet.  I also don't think he has enough in his locker to nail down the LM berth.  He's far too predictable and good defenders will have him in their pocket.

If Rafa does have a glaring weakness in the transfer market, though, I'd say it is his eye for wide midfielders.  Hopefully he'll have the money to spend on someone quality out wide this summer and not a stop-gap or a potential diamond in the rough.

Swansea are walking away with League 1 and their player of the year is on loan midfielder Paul Anderson. An attacking right winger who's proving he has talent, even if it is two divisions lower than the Premiership. So if people are complaing about our wide right position, we have another talented youngster who'd save us a 15 million plus price tag.

Left wing, I've been impressed by Babel. A little inconsistent this season, but in two to three years he'll be as good as anything in the league. I'm not so sure about Babel up front. His pace is exceptional but centre halfs will kick him to kingdom come and I don't know if he's strong enough to keep getting back up and taking more kicks. On the left wing he doesn't put up with so much of the physical side of the game which would suit him better.

It's a big, big, big step up from Swansea to starting RM at Liverpool.  Fair play to the kid if he gets his chance and takes it.  I somehow doubt we'll ever see him start a Premiership match for us, however, if he's being loaned to a First Division club.

It's a good point about Babel, though--can he handle being kicked all game?  Again, it goes back to my concerns about his bottle and his mentality.  I'm not sure he gets at that much easier on the flanks mind you, as fullbacks still try to kick him into touch.  He does seem to find more chances to pull out of 50/50 challenges out there, though.  Honestly, I don't want to be harsh and I truly hope he comes good and shows us the talent we know he has on a consistent basis but, in truth, I've seen enough this season to have considerable doubts about a part of his game that I just don't think you can train.

It may be a huge step up from Swansea to Liverpool, but my whole point on circumstances like this is the only way you know if a player can make is by giving them a go. I'm happy enough with Pennant (even if not many others are) but Anderson COULD be the answer and save us millions.

I COULD learn to fly.

...seriously though scouring the lower leagues and academies for local talent MIGHT be a good idea if we're cash strapped...

Of course it's a consideration, but if there were any players of the Cristiano Ronaldo calibre in the lower leagues I suspect we'd know about them. There aren't any that I'm aware of, and it's very unlikely we'll find that 'top class' left winger, or indeed right winger, in the lower leagues. Those who are in academies aren't ready to play first team football and we need solutions for the present.

If Paul Anderson was top class, I suspect he wouldn't be on loan at Swansea City. No amount of playing time in the first team will make up for a fundamental lack of ability.

[woof woof !]

...seriously though scouring the lower leagues and academies for local talent MIGHT be a good idea if we're cash strapped...

If Paul Anderson was top class, I suspect he wouldn't be on loan at Swansea City. No amount of playing time in the first team will make up for a fundamental lack of ability.

Interesting discussion. Looking back to when we used to pluck players like Keegan, Rush and Neil from the lower leagues
and turn them into European Champions.

Won't go so far as to say it doesn't happen anymore but with the importation of foreign players home grown potential seems to be given less and less of a chance.

[NANNY RED]

...seriously though scouring the lower leagues and academies for local talent MIGHT be a good idea if we're cash strapped...

If Paul Anderson was top class, I suspect he wouldn't be on loan at Swansea City. No amount of playing time in the first team will make up for a fundamental lack of ability.

Interesting discussion. Looking back to when we used to pluck players like Keegan, Rush and Neil from the lower leagues
and turn them into European Champions.

Won't go so far as to say it doesn't happen anymore but with the importation of foreign players home grown potential seems to be given less and less of a chance.

Its not just about being given a chance anymore though which i find sad to see but its also the expectations of the fans they want big money signings they want the end product.

There is talent in the lower divisions but let me ask you if there was a choice between Raffa going for Anderson and David BentlEy wed be screamin for him to sign Bentley who by the way i think is an exerlent player and would fit in nicely at LFC.

[woof woof !]

...seriously though scouring the lower leagues and academies for local talent MIGHT be a good idea if we're cash strapped...

If Paul Anderson was top class, I suspect he wouldn't be on loan at Swansea City. No amount of playing time in the first team will make up for a fundamental lack of ability.

Interesting discussion. Looking back to when we used to pluck players like Keegan, Rush and Neil from the lower leagues
and turn them into European Champions.

Won't go so far as to say it doesn't happen anymore but with the importation of foreign players home grown potential seems to be given less and less of a chance.

Its not just about being given a chance anymore though which i find sad to see but its also the expectations of the fans they want big money signings they want the end product.

There is talent in the lower divisions but let me ask you if there was a choice between Raffa going for Anderson and David BentlEy wed be screamin for him to sign Bentley who by the way i think is an exerlent player and would fit in nicely at LFC.

Well , in the example you've given Nanny ,surely we wouldn't have to sign Anderson ? and rafa has had ample opportunity to groom and promote him . Maybe Anderson doesn't have what it takes , but on the little i've seen of him there's been times when I would've give him a chance as opposed to some of the "stuff" we've imported.

[NANNY RED]

...seriously though scouring the lower leagues and academies for local talent MIGHT be a good idea if we're cash strapped...

If Paul Anderson was top class, I suspect he wouldn't be on loan at Swansea City. No amount of playing time in the first team will make up for a fundamental lack of ability.

Interesting discussion. Looking back to when we used to pluck players like Keegan, Rush and Neil from the lower leagues
and turn them into European Champions.

Won't go so far as to say it doesn't happen anymore but with the importation of foreign players home grown potential seems to be given less and less of a chance.

Its not just about being given a chance anymore though which i find sad to see but its also the expectations of the fans they want big money signings they want the end product.

There is talent in the lower divisions but let me ask you if there was a choice between Raffa going for Anderson and David BentlEy wed be screamin for him to sign Bentley who by the way i think is an exerlent player and would fit in nicely at LFC.

Well , in the example you've given Nanny ,surely we wouldn't have to sign Anderson ? and rafa has had ample opportunity to groom and promote him . Maybe Anderson doesn't have what it takes , but on the little i've seen of him there's been times when I would've give him a chance as opposed to some of the "stuff" we've imported.

Nah i didnt mean it that way i know hes ours  it was just a little point that i was trying to make about looking in the lower divisions like we used to i for one would be made up if we went and done that again and turned them into LFC type players but were impatiant we want the finished article now sign the contract and play tomorrow ,

What i meant to say was if Bentley became available and there was a good young prospect in the lower leagues we would be screamin for Raffa to sign Bentley

See thats what your mind goes like when you get older it scrambles

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Loaning a youngster out obviously means there not good enough? Correct me if I'm wrong but former England captain and a man who has 99 caps to his name David Beckham was loaned out to Preston when they were in the same division as Swansea are now. What a bad decision it is to loan players out.

I follow the football leagues in England very closely and I've seen Paul Anderson along with the rest of the Swansea side perform to a level that could cope in the Prem. Obviously they would struggle, but at the moment Swansea play better football than Derby, Fulham, Reading, Wigan, Bolton and Birmingham. Anderson has been at the hub of everything good Swansea have done this season. He's gaining vital first team football and at the start of next season (if he's at Liverpool) he'll take this year's form on and could make the right wing his own if he had the desire to.

[LFC2007]

Loaning a youngster out obviously means there not good enough? Correct me if I'm wrong but former England captain and a man who has 99 caps to his name David Beckham was loaned out to Preston when they were in the same division as Swansea are now.

No, but if they're not good enough, it's irrelevant. Whereas you seem to believe that you have to play that youngster in the first team in order to know if they have enough quality to stake a place regularly there, I believe that ability is relatively distinguishable from the age of 18+ and that we can't afford to be taking punts. I don't believe he's 'worth a punt' because IMO he's not top class (and won't be top class), and we just can't afford 'punts' any more. We need the real deal. Then again, you've been impressed with Babel on the left wing this season and believe he'll be as good as any other there in a few years time (I rate him, but he's not the solution to the left wing). 

The example you give was over a decade ago and was only one example anyway, if you can name a few recent examples of top class players please do.

I'd love Paul Anderson to make it, but he's not top class, and I don't think he will be top class in future (obviously if I'm wrong you can pull me up on it  ).

What a bad decision it is to loan players out.

I've heard you say in the past that we shouldn't be loaning players out to lower league teams, it seems you lack consistency in your views.

[woof woof !]

Like i said , "I've seen very little of Anderson". but the little i did see had me scratching my head as to why the lad wasn't given a chance to step up to the first team on those occasions when injury , suspension or just Rafa's penchant for rotation allowed.

Could it be that since Rafa took over in his opinion the youth team just don't have the desired quality ? Would Anderson have proved to be more disappointing than Gonzales ? I don't think so.