Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:56 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Gattouso right wing in Istanbul, against us.

Ronaldo, 19 goals, 9 pens and 5 free kicks. 5 from open play for "the greatest player in the world" what's that make Benayoun then

Beckham, his free kick and pen record spoke for itself.

Pennant is a good choice to have, and everybody knows it.

Clueless.

40 years followign Liverpool ? Did you go the game in a blindfold with ear muffs on or what ?

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:57 pm

ok some of GBJH's points sound a little crazy, I mean ronaldo is top 3 goal threat from open play in the country, If I had to play against him I would be afraid.

But the point about limited funds and choosing what positions to upgrade are valid. IF we (rafa) decides to buy a bunch of new players to address a bunch of weaknesses, he is going to spread his money around and just end up with an even bigger squad of slightly greater (or equal) talent.

The main point is Pennant is good enough, yes his goal threat is non existent, but he offers about 200% more of a crossing threat than anybody we have on the left right now. If he starts to play more regularly you will see again, he offers a lot to the club when he is in the line-up despite his lack of versatility.

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:58 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:That's why Ronaldo has caused Steve Finnan problem after problem after problem eh Ace

Even last year's goal at Anfield. It wasn't because of Ronaldo they scored, it was because of Reina spilling the ball at O'Shea's feet.

Ronaldo can perform against any lesser side, but against the top sides is little less then useless.

No he never caused any problems against us in that one game fair enough.
But like Saint pointed out he did score against Arsenal so to say he cant score against the top sides isnt actually true.
I cant be ersed getting into a debate about what sort of quality ronaldo has...people will start thinking i am a manc, all i am doing is pointing out the fact that his ability and ability to influence games is leagues above Pennant.

There is no other person who has witnessed the two play that would agree with you John not even Pennants mum probably

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:00 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
s@int wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:How can I doubt Ronaldo?

Here's how...30 shots a game, just like Lampard, I could score 30 goals a season if i took over 900 shots over the coarse of it. Then I could score 30 goals a season if I took 15 penalties a season. Next I could 30 goals a season if I was playing with Rooney and Tevez to create a set amount rather than Kuyt and Voronin, or greedy Torres who wouldn't pass to his own son.

Ronaldo can't cross a ball. He gets chance after chance after chance, but either overdoes it, or hits the first man. Then one cross every now and then finds it's way and we're all meant to believe he's some superstar. You talk about Ronaldo, how many of the top three has he scored against? Pennant's goal came against Chelsea. Garcia (never one of my faves) scored constantly against Chelsea, does that make him world class? Gerrard has scored screamers against all three top teams as well as in Europe, yet people still seem to believe he's nowhere near Ronaldo.

World class players are meant to perform on all stages. Ronaldo scores against lesser teams, hardly difficult considering Voronin scored against Derby and Sunderland as well.

Just another overrated because he plays for United.

Ronaldo -27 goals this season including a goal against Arsenal.

4 penalties -so where the idea that he scores all his goals from pens comes from I have no idea.

Pennant - one goal since he joined us but it wasn't a penalty

So the fact that he's scored 11 pens this season, means only four are from the spot

I got my information HERE

Where did you get yours?

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:06 pm

s@int wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
s@int wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:How can I doubt Ronaldo?

Here's how...30 shots a game, just like Lampard, I could score 30 goals a season if i took over 900 shots over the coarse of it. Then I could score 30 goals a season if I took 15 penalties a season. Next I could 30 goals a season if I was playing with Rooney and Tevez to create a set amount rather than Kuyt and Voronin, or greedy Torres who wouldn't pass to his own son.

Ronaldo can't cross a ball. He gets chance after chance after chance, but either overdoes it, or hits the first man. Then one cross every now and then finds it's way and we're all meant to believe he's some superstar. You talk about Ronaldo, how many of the top three has he scored against? Pennant's goal came against Chelsea. Garcia (never one of my faves) scored constantly against Chelsea, does that make him world class? Gerrard has scored screamers against all three top teams as well as in Europe, yet people still seem to believe he's nowhere near Ronaldo.

World class players are meant to perform on all stages. Ronaldo scores against lesser teams, hardly difficult considering Voronin scored against Derby and Sunderland as well.

Just another overrated because he plays for United.

Ronaldo -27 goals this season including a goal against Arsenal.

4 penalties -so where the idea that he scores all his goals from pens comes from I have no idea.

Pennant - one goal since he joined us but it wasn't a penalty

So the fact that he's scored 11 pens this season, means only four are from the spot

I got my information HERE

Where did you get yours?

BBC comentarry when Ronaldo scored his last pen against Spurs in the FA Cup.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:20 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
s@int wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
s@int wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:How can I doubt Ronaldo?

Here's how...30 shots a game, just like Lampard, I could score 30 goals a season if i took over 900 shots over the coarse of it. Then I could score 30 goals a season if I took 15 penalties a season. Next I could 30 goals a season if I was playing with Rooney and Tevez to create a set amount rather than Kuyt and Voronin, or greedy Torres who wouldn't pass to his own son.

Ronaldo can't cross a ball. He gets chance after chance after chance, but either overdoes it, or hits the first man. Then one cross every now and then finds it's way and we're all meant to believe he's some superstar. You talk about Ronaldo, how many of the top three has he scored against? Pennant's goal came against Chelsea. Garcia (never one of my faves) scored constantly against Chelsea, does that make him world class? Gerrard has scored screamers against all three top teams as well as in Europe, yet people still seem to believe he's nowhere near Ronaldo.

World class players are meant to perform on all stages. Ronaldo scores against lesser teams, hardly difficult considering Voronin scored against Derby and Sunderland as well.

Just another overrated because he plays for United.

Ronaldo -27 goals this season including a goal against Arsenal.

4 penalties -so where the idea that he scores all his goals from pens comes from I have no idea.

Pennant - one goal since he joined us but it wasn't a penalty

So the fact that he's scored 11 pens this season, means only four are from the spot

I got my information HERE

Where did you get yours?

BBC comentarry when Ronaldo scored his last pen against Spurs in the FA Cup.

Probably 11 goals from pens since he joined UNITED I would suggest? I know the mancs are lucky but considering Saha has also been taking penalties this season and Ronaldo has also missed from the spot this season, to have so many penalties half way through a season is highly doubtful.

by **crazyhorse** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:25 pm

I thought this thread was about Pennant - not a manc

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:33 pm

Pennant - good enough for second choice but certainly not good enough for a title winning team. We really do need better if we are going to make the step up. Possibly Gerrard could be moved back out on the right, but I would prefer a fast creative winger that can score goals (Mancini?) with Gerrard central.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:39 pm

s@int wrote:Pennant - good enough for second choice but certainly not good enough for a title winning team. We really do need better if we are going to make the step up. Possibly Gerrard could be moved back out on the right, but I would prefer a fast creative winger that can score goals (Mancini?) with Gerrard central.

we don't have unlimited funds to just go out and buy all these players. I know that you come from the school of thought that we need to focus more on bringing in quality over quantity. Do you really think that we need a right winger MORE than we need a Left winger, or a creative 2nd striker, or a new fullback?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:53 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:Pennant - good enough for second choice but certainly not good enough for a title winning team. We really do need better if we are going to make the step up. Possibly Gerrard could be moved back out on the right, but I would prefer a fast creative winger that can score goals (Mancini?) with Gerrard central.

we don't have unlimited funds to just go out and buy all these players. I know that you come from the school of thought that we need to focus more on bringing in quality over quantity. Do you really think that we need a right winger MORE than we need a Left winger, or a creative 2nd striker, or a new fullback?

I was saying what we need, not prioratising, but if I was I would say creative second striker is our number one priority, followed by a quality right winger. On our left side we have, Babel, Kewell (if ever fit), Riise(if he gets his form back), Aurelio (if.......)and Leto (if he's good enough)Plus Benayoun can play there at a pinch (to be honest I would sell either Pennant or Benayoun)

I think whoever is manager next season will have a big rebuilding job, but if I had the legendary £40million I would buy a creative second striker for around £20-£25million and a quality right winger for around £15-20million and "make do or mend in the other positions".

I certainly wouldn't go spreading the money around trying to solve all our problems at once.

by **crazyhorse** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:58 pm

I agree with Saint.

The problem the club has had over recent years is that money has been spent on players who are more mediocre than exceptional. The only exceptions have been in my view Alonso and Torres.
We now have a squad with a few world class players, mixed with 20 or so mediocre ones. We need to build gradually, one player and one position at a time and players should only be bought if they improve the team - not the squad. I am also against selling on players until we have replaced them, although in places we have ots of cover from players that are not good enough then we should be selling.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:19 pm

s@int wrote:On our left side we have, Babel, Kewell (if ever fit), Riise(if he gets his form back), Aurelio (if.......)and Leto (if he's good enough)Plus Benayoun can play there at a pinch (to be honest I would sell either Pennant or Benayoun)

I certainly wouldn't go spreading the money around trying to solve all our problems at once.

I am sure you know what response is coming.

Babel is a natural striker and should be moved over there

Kewell isn't ever fit, is getting on with age, and has lost pace and can't beat anybody

Riise might not ever get his form back and has admitted to focusing on defending

I know you don't want someone to be a regular if you described them as can play there in a pinch, and its fairly clear that Leto isn't good enough

It is important for consistency to have ONE clear choice and then a good back up choice. Pennant to start most the games, with Gerrard over on the right when we think Lucas or Alonso should play.

If we signed one of the top Left sided midfielders in the world, a weakness would be turned into a strength instantly. We would maybe keep kewell if he was on the cheap as cover, could move Babel to full time striker, making him 3rd or 4th choice (because our new stiker would be 1st or 2nd and not sure quite yet who would be higher between him and crouch, crouch would probably want to leave if he was 4th) As long as we signed a really good creative player, we could let yossi go, we could let Riise go as well

by **NANNY RED** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:28 pm

Not good enough imo bit of a let down to be honest with yeh mind you ive never rated him anyway.
Do you think Wenger would of let him go anyway if he new he could be this magnificant winger no i dont think so

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:33 pm

It's not good enough to say he isn't good enough. its about prioritzing what positions aren't good enough and how far away are they from being good enough

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:40 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:On our left side we have, Babel, Kewell (if ever fit), Riise(if he gets his form back), Aurelio (if.......)and Leto (if he's good enough)Plus Benayoun can play there at a pinch (to be honest I would sell either Pennant or Benayoun)

I certainly wouldn't go spreading the money around trying to solve all our problems at once.

I am sure you know what response is coming.

Babel is a natural striker and should be moved over there

Kewell isn't ever fit, is getting on with age, and has lost pace and can't beat anybody

Riise might not ever get his form back and has admitted to focusing on defending

I know you don't want someone to be a regular if you described them as can play there in a pinch, and its fairly clear that Leto isn't good enough

It is important for consistency to have ONE clear choice and then a good back up choice. Pennant to start most the games, with Gerrard over on the right when we think Lucas or Alonso should play.

If we signed one of the top Left sided midfielders in the world, a weakness would be turned into a strength instantly. We would maybe keep kewell if he was on the cheap as cover, could move Babel to full time striker, making him 3rd or 4th choice (because our new stiker would be 1st or 2nd and not sure quite yet who would be higher between him and crouch, crouch would probably want to leave if he was 4th) As long as we signed a really good creative player, we could let yossi go, we could let Riise go as well

If it came to a choice between Pennant on the right or Riise or Kewell on the left I would pick Riise/Kewell any time. Even when Riise is struggling he gives the team balance and 100%. So even though I would not really want him as first choice I would prefer him as first choice before Pennant. I also still have faint hopes of Kewell (unlike most I know).

Pennant takes the easy option every time, crosses into the box most of the time without even looking, and most of his crosses are of such poor quality that defences just eat them up. At Birmingham he had the record number of crosses in a season (6 were converted into goals) I don't know what his record is like since we bought him, but the last time I looked he had 1 assist this season. For an attacking winger rather than a right midfielder thats pretty poor. His record last season was no better but he did get a goal. (those are league game stats)

As a backup player he's probably good enough but certainly I would want better as first choice, and as we might get £5million for him or Benayoun as against nothing for Kewell, I would prefer to sell either Benayoun or Pennant and keep the other as backup.

Or to cut it short, we know Pennant is not good enough, Kewell and Riise are good enough but just not playing well. I would rather stick with players who might recover their form than someone who's never going to be good enough.

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