Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:07 pm

Big Niall wrote:I'd love to see rafa's spending versus Wenger. Wenger rebuilt a whole team in three seasons for a fraction of what Benitez spent and now they can compete for the title playing attractive football (not seen at anfield since Roy Evans).

They've won nothing for three seasons though and there's no guarantee they'll win anything this season.

I agree he's been exceptional in his ability to rebuild teams. That said, he's spent more money than gets commented on. A lot of it though has gone on clever deals, such as the deal with the side from Belgium which never gets quoted as transfer spend but has helped in bringing in the likes of Eboue and Toure 'cheap'. Or the money on teenagers like Walcott and Denilson. Plus his net spend always looks that bit healthier for Barca's brain fart in paying massively over the odds for Overmars and Madrid's in doing likewise with Anelka.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to suggest that Wenger is a bad manager. Merely that it's not fair to directly compare the work he's done to Benitez's as the tasks were different - we've not even touched on expectations of the fans yet!

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:23 pm

To put it another way Sabre, if we got a new manager tomorrow, how many of the players Rafa has bought would he see as Key players and how many as just Deadwood

Reina
Agger
Alonso
Torres

?

I find unfair to consider Rafa's sacking now or this very summer

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember you saying Sabre that if we didn't improve greatly this season after we had made a big signing in Torres and spent so much money that ...... "Yes Rafa should go".

by **Big Niall** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:23 pm

The double in his first full season 1998 and again in 2002 and going a whole campaign unbeaten is a great achievment, playing attractive football too. He got a great decade out of Viera and then he was about 30 sold him for 14m and got in Fabregas who cost a pittance and developed him to be the great young player he is. That is just one example of buying,developing,selling,replacing and making a big profit too.

From a purist football view, I haven't enjoyed the style of our play since Roy Evans days.Benitez has spent big and are team is only marginally better.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:25 pm

The_Rock wrote:7)Smicer - All rounded midfield player...can create and score goals.

8)Pongolle & La Tellac - Brilliant youngsters...If rafa had shown them the same belief he had shown Kuyt...we might be talking about them how we are talking about ronaldo...

10)Baros - I don't care what anybody says...Baros was a better striker than Kuyt, Voronin and Morientes

11)Cisse - Goal threat....Scored goals whenever he played..But rafa didn't untilise him well.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:29 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
The_Rock wrote:7)Smicer - All rounded midfield player...can create and score goals.

8)Pongolle & La Tellac - Brilliant youngsters...If rafa had shown them the same belief he had shown Kuyt...we might be talking about them how we are talking about ronaldo...

10)Baros - I don't care what anybody says...Baros was a better striker than Kuyt, Voronin and Morientes

11)Cisse - Goal threat....Scored goals whenever he played..But rafa didn't untilise him well.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:29 pm

s@int wrote:Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED.

This is the kind of line that shows how much over reaction goes on on football forums.

Its was Rafa's fault for Kewell turning into a fuc.king joke ?

by **LegBarnes** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:34 pm

The_Rock wrote:
Sabre wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:It's an interesting take on things to add up funds spent before Rafa took over and conclude Fergie therefore had a "60 million start". Quite how Rafa was supposed to compete in Liverpool spending while he was manager of Valencia is something of a mystery to me but there you go.

Thompkins thinks most of the red fans are dumb sh1t..... He constantly manipulates stats to push his point...

All journos do. The difference with Tompkin is that he tries to kill the tension surrounding the club, where as other journos like to fuel the flames, the more problems the better.

I think the point he's making is that if you picked the Liverpool of 2004, that Liverpool needed more spending than the current one. That is, this team is a player or two away of being perfect, in 2004 instead you had to reconfigure all the midfield to surround Gerrard, and you needed to offload a lot of deadwood.

Manchester instead did big spending before and they haven't needed a massive reestructuration in the last years. I don't think that's a mad point to make.

The squad rafa took over isn't as bad as what you guys are making it out to be....

1)Dudek - Just worth the transfer fee and wages for what he did in the final
2)Finnan - great RB
3)Riise - Great 1st 3 years with the club
4)Carra - No comment needed
5)Hyppia - One of our best CB ever...And still is doing a great job now
6)Hamann - Huge reason why the champ league and FA cup finals were won
7)Smicer - All rounded midfield player...can create and score goals.
8)Pongolle & La Tellac - Brilliant youngsters...If rafa had shown them the same belief he had shown Kuyt...we might be talking about them how we are talking about ronaldo...
10)Baros - I don't care what anybody says...Baros was a better striker than Kuyt, Voronin and Morientes
11)Cisse - Goal threat....Scored goals whenever he played..But rafa didn't untilise him well.

So you see the squad left behind in 2004 was not as bad as what "some" people are claiming it to be... In fact,I would prefer Baros and Cisse anytime of the day instead of Voronin and Kuyt.

I have to add.....I like rafa a h.ell lot better than houllier... (Just look at my 2003 and 2004 postings...If you think i am harsh on rafa....you haven't see anything yet). Just think some ppl here give too much credit to rafa......

you forgot gerrard

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:40 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED.

This is the kind of line that shows how much over reaction goes on on football forums.

Its was Rafa's fault for Kewell turning into a fuc.king joke ?

No mate, but it was Rafa's physio, that told Kewell to carry on playing as it was "just a simple hernia " that didn't need treatment. Kewell had to pay to see a top specialist before Rafa would believe him. Rafa apologised to Kewell and sacked the physio.

You must have read about it ,you go on RAWK, just have a read through the Kewell thread if you missed it.

All my posts in this thread arn't supposed to be knocking Rafa, I just think people are trying to protect him by twisting facts. He has a good enough record that he doesn't need that.

SPEAK THE TRUTH AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:58 pm

s@int wrote:I just think people are trying to protect him by twisting facts. He has a good enough record that he doesn't need that.

The same way that you have done there mate.

Rafa is responsible for Kewell turning to shi.t ?

Edit - RAWK has its fair share of bellends as well by the way.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:09 pm

Try putting my quote back in context and it makes more sense mate. I wasn't blaming Rafa for Kewells injury I was saying that I considered Kewell as one of our matchwinners before he was injured after Houllier left. I no longer consider him as a matchwinner now, because due to the physio diagnosing the original problem wrongly Kewell has had nothing but injuries. So its not Houlliers fault that Kewell is no longer a matchwinner, and even then I included him as a possible.

Thats rubbish.....Matchwinners - we had three when Rafa took over Kewell, Gerrard, Owen. We only have two now Gerrard and Torres with Kewell down as a possible.

Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED.

Which was in reply to this

From the Houllier era we only had the legacy of Gerrard and Carra, that could be counted as key player, the other players are either decent or good but not key ones, not match winners.

Any clearer?

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:20 pm

s@int wrote:Try putting my quote back in context and it makes more sense mate. I wasn't blaming Rafa for Kewells injury I was saying that I considered Kewell as one of our matchwinners before he was injured after Houllier left. I no longer consider him as a matchwinner now, because due to the physio diagnosing the original problem wrongly Kewell has had nothing but injuries. So its not Houlliers fault that Kewell is no longer a matchwinner, and even then I included him as a possible.

Thats rubbish.....Matchwinners - we had three when Rafa took over Kewell, Gerrard, Owen. We only have two now Gerrard and Torres with Kewell down as a possible.

Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED.

Which was in reply to this

From the Houllier era we only had the legacy of Gerrard and Carra, that could be counted as key player, the other players are either decent or good but not key ones, not match winners.

Any clearer?

You are blaming Rafa for KEwell turning to sh.it though mate. If we had won the last three games and the discussion of Kewell had come up would you have posted in capitals that same sentence ?

I think not.

by **redtrader74** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:21 pm

s@int wrote:Try putting my quote back in context and it makes more sense mate. I wasn't blaming Rafa for Kewells injury I was saying that I considered Kewell as one of our matchwinners before he was injured after Houllier left. I no longer consider him as a matchwinner now, because due to the physio diagnosing the original problem wrongly Kewell has had nothing but injuries. So its not Houlliers fault that Kewell is no longer a matchwinner, and even then I included him as a possible.

Thats rubbish.....Matchwinners - we had three when Rafa took over Kewell, Gerrard, Owen. We only have two now Gerrard and Torres with Kewell down as a possible.

Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED.

Which was in reply to this

From the Houllier era we only had the legacy of Gerrard and Carra, that could be counted as key player, the other players are either decent or good but not key ones, not match winners.

Any clearer?

I think by saying 'RAFAS PHYSIOTHERAPIST FCKED UP KEWELL', is the point that comes across 'twisted', because it looks at though you are apportioning blame to Rafa for that, when all he did was take advice from a medical professional he knew. The injury was nobodies fault, it is just a shame that Rafa has not had more than 6 months use of Harry 3 1/2 years.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:28 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:Try putting my quote back in context and it makes more sense mate. I wasn't blaming Rafa for Kewells injury I was saying that I considered Kewell as one of our matchwinners before he was injured after Houllier left. I no longer consider him as a matchwinner now, because due to the physio diagnosing the original problem wrongly Kewell has had nothing but injuries. So its not Houlliers fault that Kewell is no longer a matchwinner, and even then I included him as a possible.

Thats rubbish.....Matchwinners - we had three when Rafa took over Kewell, Gerrard, Owen. We only have two now Gerrard and Torres with Kewell down as a possible.

Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED.

Which was in reply to this

From the Houllier era we only had the legacy of Gerrard and Carra, that could be counted as key player, the other players are either decent or good but not key ones, not match winners.

Any clearer?

You are blaming Rafa for KEwell turning to sh.it though mate. If we had won the last three games and the discussion of Kewell had come up would you have posted in capitals that same sentence ?

I think not.

I probably would, I don't think me defending Kewell or any of our players has anything to do with recent results. Just have a look in OUR Kewell thread. I have defended him all along mate.

btw Kewell has been injured, not turned to sh!te.i.e.

I sometimes think that some people on here are fkn blind. Look at our results and "goals for" before Kewell came back and look at them since. Look at the balance he gives to the team when he plays, the intelligence he shows with his passing, AND HE'S NOT FULLY FIT YET.

Then take a look back to when we started to play well in 2005/2006, just after Kewell came back we went on our great run, not only to the FA cup final, but we also earned more points than ANY other team. Coincidence? Bollox. Maybe he's not the same player that he was, and maybe he never will be again, but he's STILL better than most of the wingers that we could buy.

I have no doubts that Kewell will be offered a new contract, because Rafa's not daft, he knows what Kewell brings to the table. The ONLY doubt I have is whether he can stay fit, so yes, I would put some sort of safe guards in his contract, but I have no doubts about offering him a new contract.

FFS a half fit Kewell is still miles better than a fully fit HARDWORKING Kuyt.

I posted that a while ago mate (including the capitals

)

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:29 pm

The_Rock wrote:8)Pongolle & La Tellac - Brilliant youngsters...If rafa had shown them the same belief he had shown Kuyt...we might be talking about them how we are talking about ronaldo...

Feck off, don't be silly. They were decent, Pongolle had a little bit of flair, but nothing special. Players don't improve their ability over time to the degree you obviously believe. Jason Koumas for example, no matter how much belief was shown in him from an early age, was never going to be a Steven Gerrard. You can't gain natural ability, you can only develop it to it's optimum level - and for Le Tallec and Pongolle that level was far more limited than the level Ronaldo was capable of achieving. Ronaldo had immense quality, alebiet slightly raw, at the same age as Pongolle and Le Tallec - who were distinctly average in comparison.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:38 pm

s@int wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:
s@int wrote:Try putting my quote back in context and it makes more sense mate. I wasn't blaming Rafa for Kewells injury I was saying that I considered Kewell as one of our matchwinners before he was injured after Houllier left. I no longer consider him as a matchwinner now, because due to the physio diagnosing the original problem wrongly Kewell has had nothing but injuries. So its not Houlliers fault that Kewell is no longer a matchwinner, and even then I included him as a possible.

Thats rubbish.....Matchwinners - we had three when Rafa took over Kewell, Gerrard, Owen. We only have two now Gerrard and Torres with Kewell down as a possible.

Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED.

Which was in reply to this

From the Houllier era we only had the legacy of Gerrard and Carra, that could be counted as key player, the other players are either decent or good but not key ones, not match winners.

Any clearer?

You are blaming Rafa for KEwell turning to sh.it though mate. If we had won the last three games and the discussion of Kewell had come up would you have posted in capitals that same sentence ?

I think not.

I probably would, I don't think me defending Kewell or any of our players has anything to do with recent results. Just have a look in OUR Kewell thread. I have defended him all along mate.

btw Kewell has been injured, not turned to sh!te.i.e.

I sometimes think that some people on here are fkn blind. Look at our results and "goals for" before Kewell came back and look at them since. Look at the balance he gives to the team when he plays, the intelligence he shows with his passing, AND HE'S NOT FULLY FIT YET.

Then take a look back to when we started to play well in 2005/2006, just after Kewell came back we went on our great run, not only to the FA cup final, but we also earned more points than ANY other team. Coincidence? Bollox. Maybe he's not the same player that he was, and maybe he never will be again, but he's STILL better than most of the wingers that we could buy.

I have no doubts that Kewell will be offered a new contract, because Rafa's not daft, he knows what Kewell brings to the table. The ONLY doubt I have is whether he can stay fit, so yes, I would put some sort of safe guards in his contract, but I have no doubts about offering him a new contract.

FFS a half fit Kewell is still miles better than a fully fit HARDWORKING Kuyt.

I posted that a while ago mate (including the capitals )

Dont avoid the point in question mate.

ITs not about defending any player.

ITs about blaming Rafa for the fall in stock prices, gas prices going up and anything else for that matter.

If we had won the last three games there is no way on this planet you would have stated in a thread about Tompkins latest take on Rafa that it was (and I quote once again below):

Remember it was RAFA's PHYSIOTHERAPIST THAT FKD KEWELL UP, BEFORE GETTING SACKED

Its not the clubs Physio, its not our physio but its Rafa's physio ?

Dont over react man.

Liverpool FC Forum

Paul tompkins latest blog - Fergie has spent more than rafa

Who is online