Liverpool FC Forum

LittleHobo wrote:i want him to have a free role from centre mid, gerrard is an attacking midfielder you idiot.

when you play 3 in centre mid he could do this

rafa knows this system and valencia had huge success with it

we actually played this in our champions league winning season

for some reason he has been bullied into 4-4-2

i could understand 4-4-2 if we had the players but i dont think we do

Is he yeah? Gerrard's an attacking midfielder?

Three central midfielders, he can do that can he?

Firstly, I can't ever recall a side playing three central midfielders...

Secondly, Liverpool have certainly never played that way...

Third, name one performance where Gerrard has played in a withdrawn striker role and played well?

Fourth, I think you'd find that most people would include tackling, work rate, desire and drive from a deep position as Gerrard's best attributes.

Fifth, he's not a back to goal player what so ever as we've seen in the past.

Sixth, he has nowhere near the level of technical excellence to play this role in the same way an Aimar/Zidane/anyone else who actually plays there does.

Seven, why would you want to restrict him to 50% of his game by playing him in a position that takes away the defensive side of his game? Much the same way England stiffle him by playing him in a purely defensive role, you're on about stiffling the defensive side by playing him in a purely attacking role.

Eight, anyone who even thinks of playing Gerrard off the striker is completely clueless as its the one position on the pitch where he completely fails to influence a game. IE Steven Gerrard would be completely played out of position. I'd rather see him play right back than off the striker.

Nine, stop talking rubbish and bringing football manager in to it as it has nothing what so ever to do with reality. Its a computer game, because something works tactically on a computer game doesn't mean it works in real life.

Now run along, and stop talking complete bollox.

weringo wrote:Reina

Finnan  Carra  Agger  Arbeloa

         Masch  Alonso

Pennant     Gerrard    Kewell
             
             Torres

Probably will never see that team but I believe those are the best 11 players we have.

It gives Gerrard the freedom he needs while keeping him in the middle of the park where he's most influential.

bigmick wrote:I personally don't think what is the best eleven is really the issue. FWIW I wouldn't have any problem with most of what's been said on here, Bobs line-up looks good to me and Stu's critique on the squad is not far wrong for me. Obviously there is a tendency to over praise Sami and an unspoken desire to create a spot for Dean Ashton but it's a good post nonetheless.

I actually don't really mind what Rafa's favourite eleven is, whether he prefers Alonso or masherano, Kuyt or Crouch or whatever else. As long as his best eleven includes Reina, Carragher, Gerrard and Torres as a given, then I'm not going to fall out with him or anybody else over the make-up of the final starting eleven.

The issue though is continuity obviously. I know I've gone on about it but I think it's a really serious issue. Put it this way, if he continues to rotate at his present rate I think we will be out of the race for the League title by Christmas. If that is the case I think he will be replaced as the manager before the beginning of next season. I hope it isn't the case because Rafa has IMHO rebuilt this club from top to bottom and bought brilliantly, putting together a fantastic squad along the way for a fraction of what his rivals have spent. I have a hunch though that the owners will come to the conclusion that winning the title with the current number of changes per game is a physical impossibility. Though I regret to say it, I agree with them and I hope that long before it comes to that, Rafa at least gives the "change no more than one or two players a game, at the absolute most" option a try.

He certainly hasn't bought brilliantly what so ever and It absoloutely pisses me off to hear such rubbish from someone who should, quite frankly, know a hell of a lot better.

He's wasted rediculous amounts and also signed rediculous amounts of kids who are basically and never going to make it.

I'm absoloutely fed up of this myth about Rafa's signings. Thats been his main downfall. Thats the reason we've not won the league, thats the reason we have players like Crouch, Voronin, Babel and have had Zenden, Gonzalez, Josemi and a hole host of other piles of dross.

Thats also the reason he's wasted rediculous money on players that simply aren't worth the money he paid for them in Kuyt, Crouch, Sissoko, Babel, when if he'd looked around he could have had far far better players with a hell of a lot more ability for often cheaper prices.

roberto green wrote:

Smeg wrote:Alvaro Arbeloa: Good squad player who can fill in anywhere across the back four. Under no circumstances though should he be a first choice. He lacks the ability on the ball and lacks the intelligence to overlap. One of my main critisism's of Finnan in comparrison to Babbel was that Babbel used to fly, up and down the wing, Finnan doesn't do it enough, Arbeloa even less so. For more proof, watch the Birmingham game were we actually missed Finnan's overlaps, he overlapped Pennant once because Pennant screamed at him to do so. Still, fine where he is as a backup full back.

John Arne Riise: People bang on about his long balls and say he can't defend. Rubbish, he can defend. Ok he's no Maldini or even Finnan, but he's solid enough, can win a header, put a tackle in and generally does a decent job. He's also capable of scoring a goal and overlapping should the player infront of him actually have any quality. He clearly players ALOT better when Harry Kewell is infront of him. He's a useful squad player at worst due to his versatility.

Jamie Carragher: Heart and soul, defends like a man possessed. Awful on the ball, always has been... will never be the quickest but he gives Liverpool what they need and wouldn't swap him for anyone.

Daniel Agger: Good player who's strengths aren't defending. Yes he's very competetant at the back but he's not a great centre back for me. He isn't the quickest, is weak in the in air and really struggles against strikers with physical presence. Alot of teams tend to play one upfront these days which allows him to get away with it, I think once they cotton onto that he'll be on borrowed time in Liverpool's first team, unless of course the rest of the team becomes that good it doesn't really matter.

Sami Hyypia: Still for me a better player than Agger and by quite a distance. People often accuse Sami of aimless hoofs, from what I've seen of him over the years I disagree, he tends to hoof when the midfield don't show for the ball. Alonso, takes the ball of Hyypia alot from the defence and I firmly believe that not having a natural left winger and Alonso not in the side often leaves Sami short of options other than to hoof the ball. At the end of the day, he's still the strongest and most arially dominant centre half we have, by some distance.

Jermaine Pennant: His form's been good. His crossings excellent and he's causing the opposition problems when he plays. He links up well with Finnan and he basically gives us width and more or less exactly what I thought he would. People may say he doesn't score enough, they're correct. He doesn't, not something that will ever change, I'd be suprised if he scores more than 5 in a season, but he gives us things that alot of other players don't. For me definately worth his place in the starting line up despite his lack of ability to put the ball in the net.




Babel: I'm sorry but not an £11,500,000 player. Pacey, fairly strong... thats about it. Awful signing.






Momo Sissoko: A good fourth choice midfielder. The Momo machine hasn't always been at his best the last two seasons, some rediculous statements like he'll become world class, he's the new Vieira and all haven't really helped as the expectation on him was to high. However, he's still good at what he does (even though he had a mare against Marseille) and will be a useful player over the coming seasons.


Dirk Kuyt: The workhorse. Good player, good alround, links play quite well and finds space well and never stops running. Not the best player in the world but can do a job and a player I'd be happy to see as a third choice striker.

Crouch: Not good enough, never has been, misses to many chances, doesn't win the headers he should, lacks strength and mobility. Crouch is nothing more than a decent player who came in to replace four players and give us the style of player we needed at the time. Thanks for the contribution, time to move on.

.

Arbeloa a good squad player and under no cicumstances should he be in the first team,
i really do think you come out with utter 100% sh!t at times.
Especially when you think Risse is a safer option and to say risse isnt exactly maldini. he isnt even arbeloa because arbeloa is far better than him.

you said Sami still better than Agger?What world are you living in lad.He may of been a few seasons back but not no more.

You know who Pennant reminds me of, he reminds me of a kieron dyer and a Ashley Cole and Jenas of spurs everyone of these players are so overated and hyped up just because there english, benayoun has done more this season than Penant.

you know what tho SMEGS or STU i agree with you on the striker opinion you have especially with Crouch who to me is a  mid table striker ie Aston Villa etc Everton lol, AND kuyt he is thge best foil foR Torres.

Last but not least Babbel....Well lets not go there we will wait and see if im wrong you can serve me great humble pie but if im right you will well and trully get your serving.

Yet again you completely fail to back up your point with anything what so ever with regards to Arbeloa.

Daniel Agger is overated by Liverpool fans.

I tell you what though, you keep living in your fantasy world that these players are good enough and yet again at the end of the season you'll wonder again, how we never managed to win the league with our immense squad of world class in every position players x 2 with world class everything thats world class...



Reina, Carragher, Finnan, Pennant, Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Torres are all good enough to be regulars in a league winning side. No other player in the squad is. Simple as that, which is why we always fall short. We have alot of players who are good enough to fill a gap. Thats it.

If I subscribe to your theories, Arbeloa, Agger and Babel are good enough then we have the best side on paper in the league. The fact is, we still only really have 2/3 players that would get into United and Chelsea's team.

Thats why they always win the league, and we don't even come close...

The problem with the people on this board is, they can't see their own teams faults and can't accept critisism.

Leonmc0708 wrote:

Smeg wrote:John Arne Riise: People bang on about his long balls and say he can't defend. Rubbish, he can defend. Ok he's no Maldini or even Finnan, but he's solid enough, can win a header, put a tackle in and generally does a decent job. He's also capable of scoring a goal and overlapping should the player infront of him actually have any quality. He clearly players ALOT better when Harry Kewell is infront of him. He's a useful squad player at worst due to his versatility.

Stu mate, I know you are right on a couple of things here, but why are you championing an overweight average defender who cant run, cant pass and gets away with it for 20 games with a goal every 25 games ?

Smeg wrote:Alvaro Arbeloa: Good squad player who can fill in anywhere across the back four. Under no circumstances though should he be a first choice. He lacks the ability on the ball and lacks the intelligence to overlap. One of my main critisism's of Finnan in comparrison to Babbel was that Babbel used to fly, up and down the wing, Finnan doesn't do it enough, Arbeloa even less so. For more proof, watch the Birmingham game were we actually missed Finnan's overlaps, he overlapped Pennant once because Pennant screamed at him to do so. Still, fine where he is as a backup full back.

This lad has been the best of our back four this season, FACT.

Smeg wrote:Sami Hyypia: Still for me a better player than Agger and by quite a distance. People often accuse Sami of aimless hoofs, from what I've seen of him over the years I disagree, he tends to hoof when the midfield don't show for the ball. Alonso, takes the ball of Hyypia alot from the defence and I firmly believe that not having a natural left winger and Alonso not in the side often leaves Sami short of options other than to hoof the ball. At the end of the day, he's still the strongest and most arially dominant centre half we have, by some distance.

Hyypia has never been able to play a pass, not just in the last two seasons when his pace went. I can only assume what you have seen over the years has been highlights lad.

He is the best in the air, but he turns liek an oil tanker and has lost any pace he ever had.

Lando_Griffin wrote:Isn't it amazing how everyone to a man now has Alonso in their first-choice line-up...

bigmick wrote:Well I think he has bought brilliantly and thats why I posted it There have been duds along the way as all managers have (and one or two of this years crop have a bit to prove as of yet) but I think he's bought well.

I'm not going to get drawn into a debate about it though Stu as it's been done beofre and there are more important nuances behind the post. Whether or not he's bought good players, whether or not Kuyt is better than Crouch or Alonso than Masherano or whatever, I couldn't give two fecks to be honest as long as he knows what his best team is, that'll do for me. It'll do for me even more if he picks it every now and then.

The main point of the post Stu was that I don't think we can seriously mount any type of challenge for the title whatsoever unless he drastically cuts down on the frequency and amount of rotations. Further, if he carries on as he is, I don't think he'll be our manager next season. I posted that the first time and expected to get slaughtered but nobody really commented too much. It's a strange world sometimes.

Probably because you waffled that much lad they fell asleep after it...

In all seriousness, his signings have been distinctly average Mick. Thats the main reason we are were we are mate. Simple as that. Then its down to others such as rotation. Rotation is a must, you can't win things without it.

The players these days are so fit and agile they need to be at 100% or they won't perform brilliantly and having played with and against good players I'm telling you now, they hurt when they tackle and hit you. You come of the pitch covered in bruises, wacks, bumps, aches and pains.

The fact is though, theres a difference in sensible rotation... and "Rafatation". Sensible rotation will win you leagues, cups and charity shields... "Rafatation" without the right level of quality will leave us empty handed, yet again!

The_Rock wrote:This would be my team

                  Reina
  Finnan   Carra   Agger  Arbeloa
  Benayoun  Mash Alonso  Kewell
           Gerrard   
                          Torres

This team will scrap every team in the planet 1-0.... 

Another one who wants to play our best player out of position. You got to love Newkit!