Liverpool FC Forum

by **nobybob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:15 pm

sorry red army if we had won today i for 1 would not have been saying great rotation by rafa. i raved 2 weeks ago not because of the result but because of the manner of our play . The tactics were great the side was balance we looked like we could score at evey attack. today we looked like we looked like we wouldnt score in a month of sundays. and sure i understand rafa wants to rest key players as much as poss thats okay rest them when the game is won and the points are in the bag

by **nobybob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:18 pm

you forgot to highlight the ECT in my post thats were the players and the execution on the pitch comes in

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:23 pm

nobybob wrote:you forgot to highlight the ECT in my post thats were the players and the execution on the pitch comes in

Fair enough and that was my assumption. I just find it interesting that, for you (and you are far from alone in this), the blame scale goes like this:

1) Rafa's selections
2) Rafa's tactics

(Both spelled out, I might add)

3) player performance

(under the "et cetera" label that presumably also includes unfair fixture scheduling, bad pitch, dodgy reffing, acts of God, and other sundries)

It just seems to me that there are 90+ minutes for 11 very capable footballers to stamp their authority on the game. If it doesn't happen, they should take responsibility for a big part of that.

by **RichardLFC1** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:28 pm

Reina done well with the penalty save good keeping. Torres and Gerrard when came on looked sharp but it was too late to make any damage. Pennant did play his usual great self ghowever didnt play bad. Back 4 was great as usual didnt concede witch is all they can possibly do.

by **nobybob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:29 pm

bob the rotation policy, tactics , ect are all linked you must accept this. the team would not play the same ball to crouch as to torres and vice versa. so when a really great looking exiting team changes to an average drawing one people think WHAT HAS CHANGED and of course personel on the pitch must be first suspect,in other words the rotation policy this in turn changes tactics, and indevidual players games team spirit ect

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:29 pm

RichardLFC1 wrote:Reina done well with the penalty save good keeping. Torres and Gerrard when came on looked sharp but it was too late to make any damage. Pennant did play his usual great self ghowever didnt play bad. Back 4 was great as usual didnt concede witch is all they can possibly do.

They should have probably conceded twice in the second half, though. Kanu caused all sorts of problems.

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:32 pm

nobybob wrote:bob the rotation policy, tactics , ect are all linked you must accept this. the team would not play the same ball to crouch as to torres and vice versa. so when a really great looking exiting team changes to an average drawing one people think WHAT HAS CHANGED and of course personel on the pitch must be first suspect,in other words the rotation policy this in turn changes tactics, and indevidual players games team spirit ect

But what else has changed? The opponents for one. The fitness of the players due to intervening and quite strenuous internationals. The lack of preparation. Lots of factors have changed.

It's so easy to sit there and say we'd have been home and dry by halftime if Gerrard and Torres had started but there's no guarantee on that given all the other factors (esp. the international matches). So, it's never as simple as just looking at the changed personnel and using that as the reason for the different result.

by **JBG** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:34 pm

Wasn't the worst result in the world all things considered.

by **nobybob** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:41 pm

total agree bob many other things can come together to explain this result but we must be free to suspect and critasize all

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:02 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
nobybob wrote:you forgot to highlight the ECT in my post thats were the players and the execution on the pitch comes in

Fair enough and that was my assumption. I just find it interesting that, for you (and you are far from alone in this), the blame scale goes like this:

1) Rafa's selections
2) Rafa's tactics

(Both spelled out, I might add)

3) player performance

(under the "et cetera" label that presumably also includes unfair fixture scheduling, bad pitch, dodgy reffing, acts of God, and other sundries)

It just seems to me that there are 90+ minutes for 11 very capable footballers to stamp their authority on the game. If it doesn't happen, they should take responsibility for a big part of that.

I take your point Badbob, but imagine if Rafa had included Gerrard in the starting line up instead of Pennant, Sissoko or Benayoun, he would have immediately have added pace, drive,creativity and more importantly goal threat to the mix. Same if he had played Torres up front instead of Crouch or Voronin.

What was missing today? Pace,drive,creativity and goal threat.

Maybe the players need to shoulder some of the blame for their performances, but I think Rafa sent them into the fight today with one arm tied behind their backs.

Yes the rotation options have improved this season but not to the point where we can leave arguably our 3 best players out (Gerrard, Mascherano, Torres ) Mascherano had to be left out I can understand that, but he should be OK for the CL when his rotation with Gerrard would be more acceptable.

Crouch has looked out of sorts all season, to expect him to come in and sparkle against Campbell and Distin, in a weakened team was a bit optimistic in my view. Torres has been on fire the last few games and scoring so as with Crouch last year leave him out ?

Alonso and Sissoko in midfield isn't a problem in my book, as long as you have the right options in front of them. Even Crouch and Voronin shouldn't be too much of a problem if they have the right options behind them, but to have neither was just a bridge too far.

A bad day at the office for Rafa, hopefully there wont be many more.

by **slickrick** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:01 pm

firstly would like to say hello to all as this is my first post!

thought todays line-up was a joke!
have been reading messages over the last few weeks from people going on about how crouch should get a chance and so on, hopefully today will be sufficient evidence to these fans that crouch is useless!
he never was and never will be fit to wear the red shirt!

by **GOAT** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:01 pm

Who leaves their best players on the bench... not sure what he was thinking... :idea

"lets field the worst possible team out of all the player available to me..."

by **Emerald Red** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:15 pm

slickrick wrote:firstly would like to say hello to all as this is my first post!

thought todays line-up was a joke!
have been reading messages over the last few weeks from people going on about how crouch should get a chance and so on, hopefully today will be sufficient evidence to these fans that crouch is useless!
he never was and never will be fit to wear the red shirt!

I'm starting to agree with that notion, however harsh it may seem. He's just frustrating the f*ck clean out of me these days.

by **stmichael** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:41 pm

One thing is certain about today’s game; certain combinations of players aren't up to the task creativity wise.

Momo and Xabi didn't click and Crouch and fat boy Voronin didn't work. If your central midfielders struggle, your wingers don't get the required service, if your forwards aren't mobile and don't complement each other then your midfield has no one to aim for and so on.

An all round poor performance but certainly not worthy of some of the hysterics on here. It's far too easy just to blame the manager these days. The players who were out there today just didn't do the business.

by **The Grudge** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:31 pm

stmichael wrote:One thing is certain about today’s game; certain combinations of players aren't up to the task creativity wise.

Momo and Xabi didn't click and Crouch and fat boy Voronin didn't work. If your central midfielders struggle, your wingers don't get the required service, if your forwards aren't mobile and don't complement each other then your midfield has no one to aim for and so on.

An all round poor performance but certainly not worthy of some of the hysterics on here. It's far too easy just to blame the manager these days. The players who were out there today just didn't do the business.

You kind of contradict yourself there matey!!

The manager picks the combinations of players that you say didnt work...therefore must take some blame as well as the players who never performed!

The team Raffa put out was not the best available,it also lacked ambition in centre m/f especially.
A fit Gerrard should always play....simple as.

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