Liverpool FC Forum

by **Rafa D** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:39 am

I just can't understand why people are so pessimistic at this point though S@int. At the start of the season, yes he came in for some stick and it was hard to defend him without quoting past glories, but we have just been in the final of the Champions league, again!

Its the biggest competition for any club team in world football and is widely recognised as such and we've had the previledge of being there twice in 3 seasons. The league form aint good enough but look at the teams that are beating us in the league. United have spent millions over the past 7 years, and more recently Chelsea spent nearly £250m in 3 seasons, how do you compete with that?

With any other manager I would think we would have to spend in excess of £100m this summer to compete for the title, I seriously think that £60m-£70m would make us a title challenger next year. I know we have heard it for years and years, one more player, the missing piece, the final player etc.

We've heard it all and we are fed up.

I've only followed Liverpool since the Souness era mate, and this fella we've got in now is the best man I've ever seen in the role in my lifetime, he's immense.

This summer he is meant to have the funds if the americans are to be believed. So lets see what happens in the summer and then we can call him every name under the sun, but just over a week after another european cup final ?

Its madness and could only happen at Liverpool

by **Sabre** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:43 am

It took a while but that was a worthy read Rafa-Dodd. Good post. ( I meant your previous one, not this last one that I still have to read)

Its madness and could only happen at Liverpool

It's the big-ears syndrome. If you understood Spanish and went to a Madrid forum you'd read that they must win every game because they have 9 of them, that the league is not enough, that they have nobility, and knighthood, and that white of the shirt represents the most spotless club in the world.

That could be read 5 years ago.

After 4 years without silverware, they envy Liverpool's two finals, and they'd consider a great season to win the league due to goal average.

Every big club raises expectations. It's natural. But I hope that the guys taking decissions know to brush aside those passionate sentiments and take the best decissions for the club.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:00 am

The league form aint good enough but look at the teams that are beating us in the league

Accepting our home form as good enough, accepting the defeats against the Mancs, Chelsea and even Arsenal, if we had managed to beat the middle of the road sides (who have all spent much less than us) Everton, Bolton,Portsmouth, Blackburn, Villa, Middlesbro' Newcastle,Fulham we would have WON the league.

by **Rafa D** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:11 am

s@int wrote:
The league form aint good enough but look at the teams that are beating us in the league

Accepting our home form as good enough, accepting the defeats against the Mancs, Chelsea and even Arsenal, if we had managed to beat the middle of the road sides (who have all spent much less than us) Everton, Bolton,Portsmouth, Blackburn, Villa, Middlesbro' Newcastle,Fulham we would have WON the league.

Wires crossed there mate, I meant beating us as in postion wise. Chelsea and United.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:13 am

league form was a disgrace, some performances last season were as bad as i have ever seen liverpool play, and i dont say that lightly.

of course the champions league run was great, and we got to another final, but at what cost? thats the big point here, at the cost of going backwards in the league, a long way backwards.

league first guys, everything else after that in my opinion, this may sound crazy but i would rather compete in every competition and win nothing that be embarrassing in 3 and winning one.

by **redtrader74** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:17 am

peewee wrote:league form was a disgrace, some performances last season were as bad as i have ever seen liverpool play, and i dont say that lightly.

of course the champions league run was great, and we got to another final, but at what cost? thats the big point here, at the cost of going backwards in the league, a long way backwards.

league first guys, everything else after that in my opinion, this may sound crazy but i would rather compete in every competition and win nothing that be embarrassing in 3 and winning one.

What even if that one was the league title?

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:23 am

bar steward, i never expected that question

by **redtrader74** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:24 am

Good first post Rafa dodd, a timely reminder to those who seem to have forgotten the task that was handed to Rafa when he arrived. TBH it is because Rafa is such a top manager and has brought us success that we all started this season with the thought that we just might win the league. After those first 10 games we were out of it. IMHO rotation is probably only a small factor as to why we underperformed, it cannot be a failing when during our most successful runs in the EPL we were still rotating.

by **redtrader74** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:26 am

peewee wrote:bar steward, i never expected that question

You know we're all tedious fuckers on here

by **Sabre** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:29 am

redtrader74 wrote:Good first post Rafa dodd, a timely reminder to those who seem to have forgotten the task that was handed to Rafa when he arrived. TBH it is because Rafa is such a top manager and has brought us success that we all started this season with the thought that we just might win the league. After those first 10 games we were out of it. IMHO rotation is probably only a small factor as to why we underperformed, it cannot be a failing when during our most successful runs in the EPL we were still rotating.

Spot on. There are many factors, some of them mistakes of Rafa, some of the mistakes of the club, and some of them of course, due to players.

You can plan a game whatever you want as a manager. But you can't plan Alonso making a mistake against Kaka and allowing him to dive. You can't plan Gerrard finishing badly with his right foot against Dida.

But blaming most of it to Rafa, or rotations, would be a partial analysis of the problem.

Quite simply to win everything you must work as accurately as a clock, and that means you have to do well everything, preseason, signing ups, rotations, line-up selections, atmosphere in the dresroom, EVERYTHING.

by **Sabre** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:09 am

I just read in Spanish an article of John Benjamin Toshack. (1)

Definitely it's an ex-players thing the criticism against Rafa. He mentions every single point that Peewee comments, well not every one, but some of them like the 21 points gap, like the failure to win the league, like he has spent quite a lot of money in half ársed players, and he slags rotations too!!

As much as Toshack is a legend for me, both because of LFC and Real Sociedad, I know him well and he's a bit bitter with Rafa, not now, always.

He now considers a failure not to winthe champions league. I could agree that... but then he considers the 2 finals won in the last two years "lucky". I don't agree that. Either you blame to luck both times, or you don't. But if not winning it is a failure, then winning it is a massive success. If winning it is lucky, then not winning it is unlucky. But he gives stick big time!

Toshack is an excellent scout. He spots when a player is going to be good. He spotted Kovacevic, Karpin, Nihat and other important players. For that matter, he spotted Alonso aswell and demanded to promote him to the first team. He knows a lot of football.

But. In some aspects of the game he's obsolete. For instance when he joins a club the first thing he says is he doesn't need a physical coach, a fitness coach, and he doesn't need especific goalkeeper coach. Wrong, imho. He doesn't like rotations neither, wrong, imho. I think that for some beloved explayers (I really love Toshack believe me) some new methods are not for them, because you can't teach a new trick to an old dog.

Anyhow, a bit harsh with rafa, because what I have explained: when Rafa wins, it's luck. When rafa loses it's failure. That's unfair.

(1) If anyone wants the LFC bit translated, just ask me. He also doesn't like the Rafa's rant after the final. he also considers we played better than Milan but lost, at least, some credit to Rafa!

by **redtrader74** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:16 am

Apparently Toshack in Turkish means Bollox....rather apt for the miserable sod:D

by **Sabre** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:18 am

redtrader74 wrote:Apparently Toshack in Turkish means Bollox....rather apt for the miserable sod:D

I respect Toshack. Because everything he says about LFC he says with a lot of love. He's always telling us foreigners about Shankly, about Paisley, about his years.

He's evidently a red. He's not too harsh with the archenemies, but he's very sarcastic with them.

It's just that when it comes to comment about coachs, he always thinks his methods are right, and everyone else is wrong.

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:30 am

Toshack has been a bit bitter with LIVERPOOL for years, along with various other ex players eg Phil Neal he seemed to get the impression he had been offered the managers job. Either Liverpool were quite profligate in their offers or he was mistaken.

Great player though, I saw his debut for us against Coventry (he didn't score) and his first goal for us against Everton in the great comeback from 0-2 down. I dont agree with managers doing things unless they actually believe in them. If he doesnt believe he needs extra coaches or that rotation works why should he use them? If his approach works why change it for something you dont believe in?

Good player, not sure about as a manager, but he did great with Swansea.

by **redtrader74** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:33 am

Don't forget Mark'i love man..ure' Lawrenson.

Liverpool FC Forum

Rafa's management - Opinions in this thread please

Who is online