Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:05 am

In recent days I read that SG is set to be offered 120K a week to commit his future to Liverpool - is he worth it ? I
would say No, not on this season's evidence. Are we simply paying him that to make it less appetising to him to go
elsewhere ? I think so.
Much has been made in the media by football experts on the ability of Stevie to step up to the plate, take game by the scruff
of the neck, right from the start. Well, I haven't seen that too often this season.

Zenden, Gonzales, Palletta.....all underachieved. I went to see Gonzales the first time he appeared on these shores, in a
friendly between Ireland and Chile. I was impressed and looked forward to the impact he might have in the Premiership. But
he didn't live up to expectations....First season syndrome ? Possibly - so prove me wrong.
Zenden ? For a man schooled in the artful Dutch fashion, he couldn't beat the first man. Palletta ? The future of LFC
defence ? Hell, man, I'm worried.....

What about the positives then.....

Agger, Finnan, Carragher, Reina (bar the odd flutter)....All have impressed me hugely, and are good omens for the future

Looking back on the 2006/2007 season, I have to say I'm hugely disappointed overall. Finishing in 3rd place, a massive
20+ points behind a team who played more entertaining and skilful football - at home and abroad - is to put it mildly -
far from good enough.

There are those who'll say "We're in the Champions League final" - so what ? What have we achieved on the domestic front ?
1. Humiliated at home by Arsenal
2. Appalling Away form
3. Appalling wide play from a number of underachievers
4. A lack of real penetration up front.
5. I could go on....

What about the youth academy then ? Well, again there appears to be divided loyalties between those who believe Steve
Heighway "deserves" his role.....Rubbish ! You deserve it if you produce, and put simply, he hasn't. Show me the stream of
players who have emerged from the Academy to become first teamers. With one or two exceptions, the success rate is terrible.
So Rafa is right to demand a change of directorship - I'm fully behind him.

As a passionate LFC fan, who is tired of years of underachievement, I *hope* that next year sees the start of a hungry Liverpool
right from Day 1. No more draws against newly promoted teams - with all due respect, we're better than that. Even if it *is*
Roy Keane visiting on Day 1. (Now THERE'S an interesting one - imagine a "no holds barred, fully committed" manager like Keane
at the helm sometime in the future ? It'll never happen, but you've gotta admire the man's desire to win....)

All comments welcome - type away.....

by **puroresu** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:09 am

nice post

by **kazza** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:14 am

If we go on to lift the CL trophy you ask Fergie and Moureen whether they would rather be us or their respective teams. Reaching the final guarantees us about 25 million squid. That is success. I think this thread is premature.

by **thegreedo** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:18 am

A lot of good points, I do however feel we should all try to enjoy the next week or so before being too obsessed by our shortcomings. Our league form urgently needs to be addressed, yes, but I simply can't stop thinking about my flight to Salonika a week today!!

by **Scottbot** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:20 am

bunglemark2 wrote:In recent days I read that SG is set to be offered 120K a week to commit his future to Liverpool - is he worth it ? I
would say No, not on this season's evidence. Are we simply paying him that to make it less appetising to him to go
elsewhere ? I think so.
Much has been made in the media by football experts on the ability of Stevie to step up to the plate, take game by the scruff
of the neck, right from the start. Well, I haven't seen that too often this season.

Don't know where that has come from. He's been our most consistent performer for most of the season. He's not Roy of the Rovers although that's what so many reds seem to think. amazes me the way so many expect him to play like it's last seasons Fa Cup final all the time. For me he has matured this season and has turned into the consumate team player (which is exactly what he needs to be).

Can't disagree that our league form has been a major dissapointment and to be honest we threw it all away in the 1st ten games. It was all over from that point really.

Think you are being very blase about reaching the Champions League final. If an athlete had a poor season and then won gold at the olympics is it a poor season?

by **Sabre** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:21 am

I can understand people wanting the league after so many years. It was a bad thing for me to the nineties, and watching Liverpool out of the important competitions in Europe, and far from the first place in the league.

But as much as I can understand that, I don't know why you overlook the fact LFC reached yet another CL final, most big clubs would consider the season saved with that! and I mean clubs with 9 Champions League! let alone Barcelona with their 2 CLs.

As for the young players, IMHO the only way to deal with them is patience. Here, in Spain, and in China, it doesn't matter. Problem is that in this top leagues, and within top leagues the top clubs, there's not time for patience often.

Anyhow, 10 years ago my mates joked on me because Manchester United were better according to them. 3 years ago when I joined this forum the English Press talked about the "top 3". And right now they talk about the "top 4 again". As much as we didn't win the league, it's good the fact we're counted as serious candidates again.

I don't think we disagree that much, but perhaps "hugely dissapointing" is too exagerated in my view.

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:24 am

Good post.. Ive got to say I actually agree with everything you say.

I think if we win the Champions League it is a massive acheivement and I would never diss that particular competition. All of our rivals would love to be in Greece. But the Holy Grail is still to win the league. Man U have now won 16 compared to our 18. That is far too close for comfort and next year has to be another step in regaining the title, but I don't think we will win in till the year after.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:25 am

kazza wrote:If we go on to lift the CL trophy you ask Fergie and Moureen whether they would rather be us or their respective teams. Reaching the final guarantees us about 25 million squid. That is success. I think this thread is premature.

With all due respect, my friend.............you're wrong !! :suspect:

Would Fergie and/or Maureeno swap places - why would Fergie swap places ? Over a gruelling season, his side have consistently played the better football. He has many positives to reflect on, and he (also) has a relatively young squad that will only improve over time. Barring the replacing one perhaps two players (Giggs, Scholes) - admittedly hugely effective ones - the future looks bright. And simply adding one or two players shouldn't prove too daunting a task.
Manure had a hugely successful run to the CL semi-final, eventually overcome by one of the most complete CL performances I think many have ever seen. He's still in the FA Cup. He has oversome injuries at critical times to key players.....and STILL was there or thereabouts at the end.
Don't get me wrong - I think he's a knob-end, but based on his achievements over a single season, I applaud him (albeit reluctantly)

Now for Maureeno....I think HE'D rather be anywhere else than at the helm of Chelski right now. To be honest, I find him even more irritating than Warnock, and that's saying something. When you separate the woods from the trees, the man has failed. Never before has such a slush fund been given to one man, to be utterly squandered. (But I'd take Drogba tomorrow, if we could slap that diving out of his mentality

)

This thread is not premature. Look at the facts in the cold light of day. Not a lot of positives at all. Yes, Athens could be some redemption......but I think it's too little, too late....

by **66-1112520797** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:28 am

I agree with the sentiments of your post Bunglemark, its a valid point. Take away the CL for a minute here, and this season has been a dissapointing one domestically.

We'll here in this thread at some point people trying to put a more "objective" view on it, and saying its not all that bad, some how it will be glossed over but its honestly not good enough for LFC.

TBH I'm a little worried, Rafa has got to something to prove me and other 'Pool supporters that he can cut the mustard in the Prem. Europe isnt a question, Rafa has proved to be a true genius in that. He is of great status in my book now, if he can bring the league title he'll be a legend.

I sincerely hope he's learnt after this season, that even tinkering with the team in the early part of the season is a NO NO. Also this summers activities in the transfer market should really tell us where we're going in the league. Rafa has come under some scrutiny about some of his buys, lets hope he manages to bring in the quality we really need.

by **kazza** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:34 am

bunglemark2 wrote:
kazza wrote:If we go on to lift the CL trophy you ask Fergie and Moureen whether they would rather be us or their respective teams. Reaching the final guarantees us about 25 million squid. That is success. I think this thread is premature.

With all due respect, my friend.............you're wrong !!

Would Fergie and/or Maureeno swap places - why would Fergie swap places ? Over a gruelling season, his side have consistently played the better football. He has many positives to reflect on, and he (also) has a relatively young squad that will only improve over time. Barring the replacing one perhaps two players (Giggs, Scholes) - admittedly hugely effective ones - the future looks bright. And simply adding one or two players shouldn't prove too daunting a task.
Manure had a hugely successful run to the CL semi-final, eventually overcome by one of the most complete CL performances I think many have ever seen. He's still in the FA Cup. He has oversome injuries at critical times to key players.....and STILL was there or thereabouts at the end.
Don't get me wrong - I think he's a knob-end, but based on his achievements over a single season, I applaud him (albeit reluctantly)

Now for Maureeno....I think HE'D rather be anywhere else than at the helm of Chelski right now. To be honest, I find him even more irritating than Warnock, and that's saying something. When you separate the woods from the trees, the man has failed. Never before has such a slush fund been given to one man, to be utterly squandered. (But I'd take Drogba tomorrow, if we could slap that diving out of his mentality )

This thread is not premature. Look at the facts in the cold light of day. Not a lot of positives at all. Yes, Athens could be some redemption......but I think it's too little, too late....

My point was just we should have this discussion after the final and enjoy what we HAVE achieved which is something EVERY team in the world would want.

On the 23 of May all football players around the world will be watching two teams, and we are one of them. United and Chelsea players will be watching the telly, Liverpool players will be making history.

Let's hope we win.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:35 am

Don't get me wrong, mate.....I'm hoping we win.
Finally I can shut the gimp Arsenal/Manure/Chelski fans around me....... :cool:

by **Sabre** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:36 am

But the Holy Grail is still to win the league

Fair enough, but to achieve that reaching the CL final helps a lot, because the BEST players around the world will see LFC as a great club to go.

We've been competing in the league signing up players like Arbeloa. We tried to sign up Victor last winter, FFS. In the mean time teams like Arsenal came with men like Baptista as a not regular player to play against LFC in the cup.

I realistically don't think the last 2 seasons we had a squad to win the league. And this year, despite I was optimistic at the start of the season, it was obvious in winter we had to bring people to complete the squad.

We've been fighting with less money, and that's why I'm not dissapointed. I'd be dissapointed if I spent big amounts of money only to win nothing like Chelsea!

I also agree that next year we'll have to ask a bit more to Rafa. I think the team has been growing, and his project being developed. 3-4 years is the time that teams like Sevilla and Barcelona needed to be succesful again, it wasn't a sudden change. So that's why I think next season we should ask a bit more to Rafa in the local league.

But dissapointed now? I can't be, the opposition teams do their stuff aswell and others had more money, more time to prepare the season (no qualifying rounds) and deeper squads. Not bad our performance in my view!

by **tithead** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:40 am

What did most Liverpool fans expect (expect, not hope for) domestically at the start of the season? Also, how did yous expect to do in Europe.

IMO, domestically, yous have been a failure. The press had yous written up pre-season to win the title this year, which again yous have failed to do.

In Europe, i'm not sure what was expected of yous, but I would say yous have surprised any non-Liverpool fans, especially by beating Barcelona and Chelsea to reach the final.

by **babu** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:42 am

bunglemark - question for you.

Do you reckon when clubs approach players they want to sign, that these players consider, among many other factors, the calibre of future team mates? Of course Champions football is important, the league is important, financial status, etc.

I personally think 120k per week for SG is way too much, but if that what it takes these days. then so be it. Keeping him here is very important. I think (based on nothing) that players like Alonso and especially SG with can only help with getting quality signing. Don't world-class players want to play with other world class players?

ps i know that wasn't your main point. but i am going to focus on the final for now and discuss the league after the 23rd.

by **Sabre** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:44 am

What did most Liverpool fans expect (expect, not hope for) domestically at the start of the season? Also, how did yous expect to do in Europe.

IMO, domestically, yous have been a failure. The press had yous written up pre-season to win the title this year, which again yous have failed to do.

The same press that considered the top 3 "Arsenal, Manchester United and Chelsea" the top 3?

Press are press, and as much as they talk a lot of football, they're often clueless. LFC won the CL in 2005 and many thought that everything was done in one year. The next season the team kept improving, and LFC was closer to Chelsea than the previous season. So people just thought "ah, if the progress is linear, then they should win the league next season".

And since we're passionate, we bought that. But Rafa warned to all of us that would be very difficult. We didn't listen (and I include myself). Once again we hadn't ready the squad in summer, the signing ups reached late, and some of them in winter. So the fact many people EXPECTED to LFC win the league, doesn't mean they were right. Thus, no underachievement.

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A hugely disappointing season....on many fronts - Let not athens distract you....

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