Liverpool FC Forum

by **neil** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:13 am

It seems we now have what I believe to be potentially the best midfield quartet in the world(sum of the parts).

Sissoko- spoiler, without a doubt, as good a destroyer we've seen for years. The main aspect of his game he needs to work on is his distribution which can be awful. The guy is still young enough to learn that with these players around him he doesnt need to do anything more than pinch the ball off the opposition and give the easy pass to one of them, just keep it simple.

Gerrard- Dynamic goal scorer, engine, motivator. Steven has recently become the complete midfielder.

Mascherano- Argentina's Didi. Another destroyer yet decievingly subtle compared to Sissoko . Technically adroit and a credit to our managers forsight in more ways than one.

Alonso- Its an over-used reference but it is true, Xabi is a footballing quarterback. Not as mobile as some(nor a Jan Molby for that matter) but has a wonderful awareness of where his colleagues are at any given time and is able to spray passes wherever required. Sits deep.

The twist
Now then this is the hard part, can all 4 play together? the balance of this midfield is too defensive at this stage and leans away from the left, which brings me to Harry Kewell. Harry has had his fair share of knockers(ahem) but I'm a fan, if he can come back and play to the standard he is capable of(Autumn 2005- easter 2006) we could create an extremely well balanced quartet, with the right blend of flair and defence,this mean losing a defensive spoiler IMO that must be Sissoko. Therefore if Crouch can bring consistency to his game and Agger- Carragher and co maintain their defensive sublimeness the future looks bright, the future looks red

by **LFC #1** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:50 am

The four of them can't play together, it would be too narrow and lack creativity. I agree with you though that we have an excelent combination of central midfielders at the club now.
Mascherano is a quite similar to Alonso, I don't see him as a 'destroyer' per se, just an excelent holding midfielder who is very adept at keeping possession and controlling the midfield. Watch some of Argentina's games at the World Cup, where he absolutely controlled the game ala Xabi for us in the past.

by **neil** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:54 am

Are you saying we could accomodate Mascherano at the expense of Alonso?

by **LFC #1** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:59 am

No not at all, for me Xabi is a better player but they have similarities - thats all i'm saying. They played well together yersterday, but if Gerrard wasn't playing in front of them it would be a very defensive looking midfield and lack goal-scoring threat.

by **neil** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:03 am

Thats my point, Xabi & Mascherano(holding) with Gerrard & Kewell goin forward, doesnt that sound superb?

by **LFC #1** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:12 am

it's pretty enticing that's for sure. I don't think Kewell will ever be aprt of a midfield 4 where we win the premeriship. Don't get me wrong, he's top quality when fully firing but he's crocked, he's never going to reach that level of his last season or two at Leeds I fear.

An average Kewell is still better than Gonzalez though! However left mid is an area we need to look at strongly in the summer. Robben anyone?

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:01 am

Momo, Mascha, Alonso and Gerrard in the same midfield ? Not for me as good as they are you cant have four central midfielders playing in the same team IMO. Even if you did move Gerrard out wide, one would be left benched.

On the subject of midfield though and in relation to Rafa's formation yesterday you definately could have three of the four playing in their "proper" positions. Yesterday we played 4-2-3-1 Rafa's favoured formation so it seemed when he was at Valencia and he did try it here earlier on but to no avail. But now with the arrival of Maschereno we are much better equiped to play this system and accomodate more of our midfielders in the same team at once. Why not really, when we've been playing with two upfront who havent been scoring the goals as we would of liked. We may aswell from time to time and depending on the opposition use our best players in their best areas of the field.

I am a fan of the 4-4-2 formation always have been, but with the personal in midfield and the lack of goals from our two forwards most weeks. It doesnt pose a bad problem to opt for the formation used yesterday, until we do buy a "fox in the box" if we do. I posted something similar in the Arsenal thread relating to the midfield and strikers.

Maschareneo Alonso

New player Gerrard Kewell
(or possibly Bellamy)

I think this formation will get the best out of our midfielders, Maschereno and Alonso can play their natural holding roles and both playing whats natural to them. No round pegs square holes there, with Gerrard infront of them, although as said in another thread I do believe he is the best box to box midfielder in the country and playing in a flat four midfield with him in the center is probably his best position. But sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the good of the team and I think he also prefers playing further ahead of Alonso and Mascha than right of them where he struggles to get into games sometimes. He can offer goals and pose more of a threat supporting the lone striker. Who I think in this formation and as we saw yesterday is Crouch, he can play that role better than anyone of our strikers. A bit like Carew did when he was at Valencia and Aimar behind him, I know Gerrard isnt like Aimar but still there is similarities in what Rafa is trying to achieve. And with a fully fit Kewell to the left of him and a new right winger, or for now it would be interesting to see Bellamy play wide right with his pace down the right flank. After all Bellamy does tend to pull out wide, he has pace and is a very hard working tenacious player, at least until Rafa finds a more adequate winger I dont think Pennants upto the job personally, not for a whole season anyway.

Playing this formation in midfield: New player Gerrard Alonso Kewell ? is one I'd like to see more of, if we brought in the right striker to partner Kuyt or someone a fox in the box. Kuyt shouldnt be asked to play a lone role, he isnt as effective as Crouch. But he can be asked to support and play upfront with a striker who has the potential to notch up a decent tally of goals over a season. At the moment we dont really have that, and recently with Bellamy and Kuyt upfront it has seemed a pretty toothless partnership and I cant really see the use of playing two upfront if neither are poaching goals.

So if Rafa brought in for example a right winger and a "fox in the box" you could play the two formations depending on the opposition, or if you feel the need to rest. This could also mean less rotation also which didnt help earlier on, you'd have different formations but the same players knowing their positions in each of them. I havent forgotten Momo either but he can play centrally in either formation when called upon a good player to bring off the bench but I would start Mascha ahead of him for the time being.

Reina

Finnan Carra Agger Riise

New player Gerrard Alonso kewell

foxinthebox Kuyt

or

Reina

Finnan Carra Agger Riise

Mascha Alonso

Bellamy Gerrard Kewell
(new player)
Crouch

by **Smeg** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:35 am

neil wrote:It seems we now have what I believe to be potentially the best midfield quartet in the world(sum of the parts).

Sissoko- spoiler, without a doubt, as good a destroyer we've seen for years. The main aspect of his game he needs to work on is his distribution which can be awful. The guy is still young enough to learn that with these players around him he doesnt need to do anything more than pinch the ball off the opposition and give the easy pass to one of them, just keep it simple.

Gerrard- Dynamic goal scorer, engine, motivator. Steven has recently become the complete midfielder.

Mascherano- Argentina's Didi. Another destroyer yet decievingly subtle compared to Sissoko . Technically adroit and a credit to our managers forsight in more ways than one.

Alonso- Its an over-used reference but it is true, Xabi is a footballing quarterback. Not as mobile as some(nor a Jan Molby for that matter) but has a wonderful awareness of where his colleagues are at any given time and is able to spray passes wherever required. Sits deep.

The twist
Now then this is the hard part, can all 4 play together? the balance of this midfield is too defensive at this stage and leans away from the left, which brings me to Harry Kewell. Harry has had his fair share of knockers(ahem) but I'm a fan, if he can come back and play to the standard he is capable of(Autumn 2005- easter 2006) we could create an extremely well balanced quartet, with the right blend of flair and defence,this mean losing a defensive spoiler IMO that must be Sissoko. Therefore if Crouch can bring consistency to his game and Agger- Carragher and co maintain their defensive sublimeness the future looks bright, the future looks red

Width?

by **Gerrard30391** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:30 am

And what about Pennant, Luis Garcia, Gonzalez, Zenden(Maybe not), Aurelio or Risse(Depends who plays LB.

Where do these come in?

I would have.....

Reina

Finnan Agger Carragher Risse

Alonso Mascherano

Pennant(ATM 'coz hes on form) Aurelio

Gerrard
Crouch(As much as i like him , not a title winning striker) New striker please!

by **metalhead** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:51 am

LFC #1 wrote:Mascherano is a quite similar to Alonso, I don't see him as a 'destroyer' per se, just an excelent holding midfielder who is very adept at keeping possession and controlling the midfield. Watch some of Argentina's games at the World Cup, where he absolutely controlled the game ala Xabi for us in the past.

Mascherano is faster than Alonso.

by **Reg** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:55 am

metalhead wrote:
LFC #1 wrote:Mascherano is a quite similar to Alonso, I don't see him as a 'destroyer' per se, just an excelent holding midfielder who is very adept at keeping possession and controlling the midfield. Watch some of Argentina's games at the World Cup, where he absolutely controlled the game ala Xabi for us in the past.

Mascherano is faster than Alonso.

A quick brain is more important than quick fet in that role?

by **The Manhattan Project** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:29 am

We need to really establish a set of guidelines, regarding the pronounciation of Mascherano's name.

The BBC say "Masher-ano"

Sky says "Masker-ano"

David Pleat says "Massakassadassablassaleeeeno"

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:30 am

The Manhattan Project wrote:We need to really establish a set of guidelines, regarding the pronounciation of Mascherano's name.

The BBC say "Masher-ano"

Sky says "Masker-ano"

David Pleat says "Massakassadassablassaleeeeno"

you a funny guy

by **JC_81** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:22 pm

To be honest I'm not entirely happy with our choices at central midfield. Out of the 4 at our disposal only Gerrard is a goal threat. Masherano and Alonso are similar in their positioning in that they are deep-lying midfielders, but Mascherano is more of a spoiler who can pass the ball forwards, whereas Alonso is a deep-lying playmaker. Sissoko is just a destroyer, and while he's good at it, there's nothing else to his game. Gerrard is a good all-round midfielder and can score goals, which is crucial.

The bottom line is that if Gerrard doesn't play, or is on the right, then our central midfield is far too defensive. Mascherano and Alonso worked well against Arsenal, but I don't think it's a good pair if we're playing a mid-lower table side who are just set up to contain us.

I'm not really sure what the solution is. Assuming we're keeping Mascherano (is he actually signed or on loan - it's not very clear and I've heard different stories), then is there a case for selling Sissoko perhaps? Personally I'm a fan of his but he's not everyone's cup of tea. Or is there a case for selling Alonso? Good player no doubt, but slightly overrated by most of our fans I feel, he's not had a good season either. We could get not far off 20 million for him I reckon. I think we need another central midfielder in the squad who's capable of getting goals. I think that's what Benitez was hoping from Zenden but let's face it he's not good enough.

Does everyone else think that our collection of central midfielders have the right blend, or do we need someone else who's a bit more creative/capable of scoring?

by **LFC #1** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:41 pm

john craig wrote:To be honest I'm not entirely happy with our choices at central midfield. Out of the 4 at our disposal only Gerrard is a goal threat. Masherano and Alonso are similar in their positioning in that they are deep-lying midfielders, but Mascherano is more of a spoiler who can pass the ball forwards, whereas Alonso is a deep-lying playmaker. Sissoko is just a destroyer, and while he's good at it, there's nothing else to his game. Gerrard is a good all-round midfielder and can score goals, which is crucial.

The bottom line is that if Gerrard doesn't play, or is on the right, then our central midfield is far too defensive. Mascherano and Alonso worked well against Arsenal, but I don't think it's a good pair if we're playing a mid-lower table side who are just set up to contain us.

I'm not really sure what the solution is. Assuming we're keeping Mascherano (is he actually signed or on loan - it's not very clear and I've heard different stories), then is there a case for selling Sissoko perhaps? Personally I'm a fan of his but he's not everyone's cup of tea. Or is there a case for selling Alonso? Good player no doubt, but slightly overrated by most of our fans I feel, he's not had a good season either. We could get not far off 20 million for him I reckon. I think we need another central midfielder in the squad who's capable of getting goals. I think that's what Benitez was hoping from Zenden but let's face it he's not good enough.

Does everyone else think that our collection of central midfielders have the right blend, or do we need someone else who's a bit more creative/capable of scoring?

Some interesting points raised. TBH if Rafa wants to persist with his favoured 4-4-1-1 formation from his Valencia days then I don't think Gerrard is the answer as it takes so much away from his game playing there. His best position is CM, going box to box. Don't get me wrong the attacking side of his game is immense and he's a real goal threat, but he's not am Aimar, Kaka and to a lesser extent Riquelme type player.

Luis Garcia isn't good neough to hold down the position week in week out, so we'd be looking at bringing someone else in if Rafa wished to persist with it IMO. Sissoko would probably be the one to sell for me, although it would be a tough choice.

TBH i don't like it, I much prefer the more conventional 4-4-2. Something like this:

Finnan Agger/new centre half Carra Aurelio

Pennant/New player Gerrard Alonso/Mascherano New player/Kewell (if ever fit or playing at a decent ability again)

Kuyt/Crouch New Striker

If were to go to the 4-4-1-1, we'd need to sign the type of player who I'm not sure would be able to adapt to the premiership that well (unless we signed Kaka

), as there is no one in England currently that i can think of who could do the job (Tevez perhaps?).

For me it comes back to who do we need to sign in the summer. For me it's a striker of top quality (Villa, Eto'o), another centre half (Woodgate perhaps) and a left mid. Alves would be nice as well.

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