Liverpool FC Forum

by **67-1161385641** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:04 pm

Lando, the same could be said about Martin O’Neill, but he is a top manager. However whether Celtic would be able to finish in the top six would remain to be seen. I think it is wrong to call them a run off the mill side, they can beat most teams on their good day, but to paint them out be Premiership winning material again is way off the mark as well. I guess we can only predict these things; either way I still don’t see what that has to do with anything topic related.

As for the Premiership being second rate, I’d be inclined to agree this season, but then again most leagues are fairly one sided to be fair. La Liga (bar the odd surprise i.e. Valencia and Sociedad in recent times) has been a two horse race Barcelona and Real Madrid. Italy it’s usually Juventus and Milan, so it’s not only the Premiership that is like that, but I agree our league isn’t the best, but if we were to win the league I doubt anyone would complain, so again what has this got to do with the topic?

by **puroresu** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:18 pm

CharmlessMan wrote:Lando, the same could be said about Martin O?Neill, but he is a top manager. However whether Celtic would be able to finish in the top six would remain to be seen. I think it is wrong to call them a run off the mill side, they can beat most teams on their good day, but to paint them out be Premiership winning material again is way off the mark as well. I guess we can only predict these things; either way I still don?t see what that has to do with anything topic related.

As for the Premiership being second rate, I?d be inclined to agree this season, but then again most leagues are fairly one sided to be fair. La Liga (bar the odd surprise i.e. Valencia and Sociedad in recent times) has been a two horse race Barcelona and Real Madrid. Italy it?s usually Juventus and Milan, so it?s not only the Premiership that is like that, but I agree our league isn?t the best, but if we were to win the league I doubt anyone would complain, so again what has this got to do with the topic?

Agree. Celtic are nowhere near prem winning material. However with 3 years in theprem they would be just because a club that size would get plenty investment.

Also agree about most leagues usually have 2 sides fighting for te title. However that usually turns into a two horse race halfway through. The Prem this season has become a two horse race far too quickly this season. I did not see Liverpool and Arsenal falling so far behind by December.

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:27 pm

puroresu wrote:Serie A is better than the prem. Tactically, technically and plenty goals to.

Put it this way if I had a choice out of watching 2 EPL middle table sides or two Italian mid table sides I would choose the italian game just as technially it would be better. Oh and the English is nowhere near as strong as spain. Spain has 5 genuine title contenders.

I dont see how anyone can not agree that the Prem this season is weak.

I aint the biggest fan of strachan but he got celtic to the last 16 of the CL. Even O Neil failed to do that.

Oh and u say Celtic would be good at home, and rubbish away. Not to different to us then is it.

Serie A is nowhere near as good as the premiership....you can have your opinion and i will have mine, about 5-10 years ago maybe, but for about 3 years its been p!ss poor.
You go and watch your mid table italian teams, played at a snails pace, i know what i would rather watch.

And if there are 5 contenders that can win the spanish league this season then i actually am Ace Ventura, the league will be won by one of the usual big 2 as always.
I was happy for Celtic that they went through but did they sh!te deserve it, united murdered them but just didnt have the killer touch.
Our away record will pick up soon i am sure of that, now the big games are out of the way and once a couple of key players are back we will start picking up the wins on the road.

by **67-1161385641** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:32 pm

puroresu wrote:Agree. Celtic are nowhere near prem winning material. However with 3 years in theprem they would be just because a club that size would get plenty investment.

Also agree about most leagues usually have 2 sides fighting for te title. However that usually turns into a two horse race halfway through. The Prem this season has become a two horse race far too quickly this season. I did not see Liverpool and Arsenal falling so far behind by December.

Investment doesn't guarantee success, but I do see you're general point. I also didn't expect us to be so far behind by december, but that happens, it's not the first time it's happened to us and that just shows how unpredictable football is, for all we know next season could be a five horse race, you just never know in football.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:05 pm

FFS, let's focus people. Liverpool plays in the Prem. Not Serie A, La Liga, Le Championat, or the M. L. feckin' S. I couldn't give a monkey's what league is superior technically or which has the greatest number of teams in the hunt for the title. I support Liverpool, end of.

As such, ALL I care about is the Premiership and in the Premiership, we have obviously dropped well off the pace set by Man U and Chelsea and are out of the hunt for another season. That's hugely disappointing and I'm willing to say it's not good enough given our season last year. Yet, I just don't see the point in dwelling on how far we are behind in EVERY POST.

Our sights need to be firmly set on third now, because that is an achievable short term goal with a significant incentive attached to it (potential CL qualification). Once we get there, it is imperative that we kick on: both to close the gap to second and to distance ourselves from the teams behind us. Moreover, we need to build team cohesion and the winning mentality so that we're in the race from the off next season. Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to stick another cup or two in the trophy case by way of consolation this season.

At the end of the season, if we finish third, bag a cup and are playing close to the level we're capable of, I won't give a rat's a.rse how mediocre the league is and whether we're as close to the title as the 3rd-place side in other European leagues. But maybe that's just me--100% focused on Liverpool rather than dividing my attention and loyalties between half a dozen teams in half a dozen leagues around Europe.

by **67-1161385641** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:14 pm

Bad Bob wrote:FFS, let's focus people. Liverpool plays in the Prem. Not Serie A, La Liga, Le Championat, or the M. L. feckin' S. I couldn't give a monkey's what league is superior technically or which has the greatest number of teams in the hunt for the title. I support Liverpool, end of.

As such, ALL I care about is the Premiership and in the Premiership, we have obviously dropped well off the pace set by Man U and Chelsea and are out of the hunt for another season. That's hugely disappointing and I'm willing to say it's not good enough given our season last year. Yet, I just don't see the point in dwelling on how far we are behind in EVERY POST.

Our sights need to be firmly set on third now, because that is an achievable short term goal with a significant incentive attached to it (potential CL qualification). Once we get there, it is imperative that we kick on: both to close the gap to second and to distance ourselves from the teams behind us. Moreover, we need to build team cohesion and the winning mentality so that we're in the race from the off next season. Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to stick another cup or two in the trophy case by way of consolation this season.

At the end of the season, if we finish third, bag a cup and are playing close to the level we're capable of, I won't give a rat's a.rse how mediocre the league is and whether we're as close to the title as the 3rd-place side in other European leagues. But maybe that's just me--100% focused on Liverpool rather than dividing my attention and loyalties between half a dozen teams in half a dozen leagues around Europe.

Well done, Bob! I do say, that's was quite the John Locke approach to this debate. Pssst! You might want untwist your briefs, I sense the dark side in you, old Jedi!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:57 pm

Who says Martin O'Neill is a top manager? He's never proved himself at a top club.

Two League Cups with Leicester don't warrant the a*se-kissing he's recieved.

He didn't set the world on fire at Celtic, only matching the amount of trophies won by Ranger's boss Alex Mcleish during O'Neill's reign.

Yes Leicester stayed in the top half of the table while he was there, but so f*cking what?

He's no better than Fat Sam.

by **67-1161385641** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:10 pm

He's a very good manager, you only have too look at what he's done at Villa and what he's done in most of his managerial career. He has the ability to get the very best out of all his players, that's not a mark of a poor manager, but a good, intelligent manager. His knowledge of the game is quite remarkable.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:49 am

CharmlessMan wrote:He's a very good manager, you only have too look at what he's done at Villa and what he's done in most of his managerial career. He has the ability to get the very best out of all his players, that's not a mark of a poor manager, but a good, intelligent manager. His knowledge of the game is quite remarkable.

So why is he at Villa then, and not a top side? He's been around long enough now.
ANd if he were THAT good, then the teams he's left should be able to hold their own as a result of the strategies and facilities he put in place.

Where are Leicester again? That's right - up sh*t creek.

As for his current position, getting beaten at home 3-1 by a Man City side with a worse away record than us (before that match) is hardly the mark of a top manager, is it?
I'll tell you what really makes me smile - that some of our "fans" (not you, necessarily), are prepared to forgive O'Neill for a result like that, no matter what the situation, but we get beaten 1-0 away to the champions, despite being the better team, and the very same fans are calling for Rafa's head.

These people are quite simply imbeciles.

O'Neill - Can motivate, and get players with problems to start playing well again.

And so can Fat Sam.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:22 am

puroresu wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:Certain members are beginning to sound like stuck records.

One fit central midfielder, 2 leftbacks out, a striker out, and our first-choice left midfielder out, and we still managed a draw.

How is that bad?

I seriously do not understand some people.

I thought we were supposed to have a stronger squad. The draw isnt really the concern to me, its the performance. Even if the injured players were fit would there really be much difference. Its not as if before the injuries were setting the world alight. A goal difference of 0 tells the stroy itself. Injured players or not I see the same problems in scoring goals.

Now you're just being silly.

A strong squad means perhaps 2 players for each position. We had 1 fit player for arguably the most important position on the pitch.

No squad can withstand the injuries we've had.

by **Anfield rapper** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:33 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
CharmlessMan wrote:He's a very good manager, you only have too look at what he's done at Villa and what he's done in most of his managerial career. He has the ability to get the very best out of all his players, that's not a mark of a poor manager, but a good, intelligent manager. His knowledge of the game is quite remarkable.

So why is he at Villa then, and not a top side? He's been around long enough now.
ANd if he were THAT good, then the teams he's left should be able to hold their own as a result of the strategies and facilities he put in place.

Where are Leicester again? That's right - up sh*t creek.

As for his current position, getting beaten at home 3-1 by a Man City side with a worse away record than us (before that match) is hardly the mark of a top manager, is it?
I'll tell you what really makes me smile - that some of our "fans" (not you, necessarily), are prepared to forgive O'Neill for a result like that, no matter what the situation, but we get beaten 1-0 away to the champions, despite being the better team, and the very same fans are calling for Rafa's head.

These people are quite simply imbeciles.

O'Neill - Can motivate, and get players with problems to start playing well again.

And so can Fat Sam.

To be honest i can't remember anyone calling for rafa's head after the Chelsea match. We played well and deserved something. You just have to accept that us 'fans' get annoyed when after a performance like we put in at Chelsea (very good) we go and put in performances like we did at Man U and Arsenal (terrible), and i think Rafa is at least partly ressponsible for that.

by **Leonmc0708** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:04 am

O'Neill is undobtedly a very good man manager, but his limit is making hte average player play to the best of his ability. He like Harry Redknapp can get a tune out of any old yard dog, but put them in there with superstar players and they will not be as good.

Thats why I was glad we didn't get O'Niell when we where after him.

by **puroresu** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:20 am

O’Neil is very very good. His career history filled with nothing but positives. Taking a non league side into to the football league and then getting two successive promotions is amazing in itself. He took Leicester a side going nowhere into the Premiership and not only kept them up but was never once in a relation dog fight and he got them in Europe. He took over a Celtic side in ruins and transformed them. The run to the UEFA Cup Final was fantastic. How many people would of took that side that far. They never had an easy ride. They beat Stuttgart, Celta Vigo, Blackburn and Liverpool on the way to Seville. Some of the results he got in Europe have to be admired. Wins over Barcelona, Ajax, Juventus, Lyon, Porto, credible draws v Bayern and AC Milan.

I aint saying O’Neil is the best but he defiantly is better than Big Sam and one of the top Managers in the country.

by **Ace Ventura** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:55 pm

puroresu wrote:O’Neil is very very good. His career history filled with nothing but positives. Taking a non league side into to the football league and then getting two successive promotions is amazing in itself. He took Leicester a side going nowhere into the Premiership and not only kept them up but was never once in a relation dog fight and he got them in Europe. He took over a Celtic side in ruins and transformed them. The run to the UEFA Cup Final was fantastic. How many people would of took that side that far. They never had an easy ride. They beat Stuttgart, Celta Vigo, Blackburn and Liverpool on the way to Seville. Some of the results he got in Europe have to be admired. Wins over Barcelona, Ajax, Juventus, Lyon, Porto, credible draws v Bayern and AC Milan.

I aint saying O’Neil is the best but he defiantly is better than Big Sam and one of the top Managers in the country.

Would you rather he was manager of Liverpool instead of Rafa ?

by **puroresu** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:19 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:
puroresu wrote:O’Neil is very very good. His career history filled with nothing but positives. Taking a non league side into to the football league and then getting two successive promotions is amazing in itself. He took Leicester a side going nowhere into the Premiership and not only kept them up but was never once in a relation dog fight and he got them in Europe. He took over a Celtic side in ruins and transformed them. The run to the UEFA Cup Final was fantastic. How many people would of took that side that far. They never had an easy ride. They beat Stuttgart, Celta Vigo, Blackburn and Liverpool on the way to Seville. Some of the results he got in Europe have to be admired. Wins over Barcelona, Ajax, Juventus, Lyon, Porto, credible draws v Bayern and AC Milan.

I aint saying O’Neil is the best but he defiantly is better than Big Sam and one of the top Managers in the country.

Would you rather he was manager of Liverpool instead of Rafa ?

No and never implied I did either.

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