Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:05 am

crouchaldinho wrote:Have to say, i was bitterly disappointed with the result yesterday. It looks as though confidence in our camp is extremely low - i havent seen liverpool play that poorly against United for as long as i can remember. The passing from pretty much everyone seemed lazy (for want of a better word), and for me, it didnt look like there was commitment there from our boys.

I disagree with a lot of the rants posted on here though, i find it hard to believe that a number of you (who were probably all rubbing your hands together before the season started thinking this might be our year) are suddenly slating some of our best players, saying they arent good enough, lets ont forget that Reina, Riise, Sami and Finnan broke records last season for clean sheets - i bet you werent telling people they werent good enough then, were you?

I do think that there is a lack of commitment tto the cause at the moment though. i mean, if the players cant motivate themselves for a game against united at old trafford, when CAN they? What happened to the team with the spirit to come back from 3-0 down to win the CL? or come back from behind TWICE against West Ham last season?

My problem is the side hasn’t really improved on last year. The new signings have made the squad stronger but the team isn’t. Now that’s a problem when Chelsea with Ballack and Shevchenko are a better team. Arsenal with Gallas and Rosicky and the ever improviing Fabregas are a better side than last year. Utd with a fit Paul Scholes, a in form Saha, a flyer in Ronaldo look better than last season.

by **Anfield rapper** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:07 am

Didn't post yesterday because i think its best to sleep on things and have a think rather than a knee jerk reaction. Even after calming down though i have to say i can't remember us playing as badly against manure. They just wanted it more than us. If you look at the two teams i would say we are at least evenly matched. We played them off the park last season in the cup and at theirs we should have at least got a draw. We started off ok but has soon as they had made a couple of tuff tackles we went into our shells. Momo is the only one who stood up to them. What dissapoints me is that i know we can do better than that, this was pretty much our last chance in the league this season and the players just looked as if they would have rather been still having their sunday morning lie in. We will probabley beat them at anfield later on in the season and thats what pisses me off about this knowing that when it actually counts we didn't turn up.

by **Rimetto_** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:33 am

kazza wrote:On a positive note in nine matches we have played Chelsea, Utd, Bolton and Everton away (all of which we lost). After Arsenal (in about three weeks) theoretically all difficult games will be finished and we can avenge those defeats.

not winning any of these games is not positive. If you have a serious claim for the title we should be taken 3 points or at least a point from these games.

I'm sure chelski and manure won't be coming to anfield thinking well if we lose that's fine. Come to think of it every team in the league will be looking forward to playing us at home if we keep playing like that

by **puroresu** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:40 am

I think the question needing answering is why our record especially away is so bad against Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea. We should not fear games against these sides and it’s not good enough to always get beat. The contrast between an Arsenal side going to OT earlier in the season needing to win and the Liverpool side in the same situation was huge. The approach both sides had to the game, totally different and even though Arsenal had no Henry it didn’t affect there positive attitude towards every game. Us on the other hand went there not to get beat and ended up losing convincingly.

by **Rimetto_** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:41 am

Thehobo wrote:reina - not good enough for a title winning team

finnan - same as reina

carragher - this season hes been poor, hes had his two good seasons, now hes back to how he used to be, an average determined defender

hyypia - to slow now, in mind and body, agger please

riise - never thought he was good enough to be in a title winning team, many left backs are better than him

Gerrard - must be annoyed to be playing with so many average players

alonso - cant tacke, to static, doesnt run off the ball, sits and passes waywardly these days

sissoko - good, his heart is in the right place, he should stay and play holding role, alonso must go

gonzalez - lightening speed, was suprised he went off, he will be good

kuyt - good but he needs support

garcia - good at home, terrible away

i totally agree with your comments especially about alonso and momo. For me momo should be in the middle alonside gerrard.

gerrard is not himself this season and that has to be because when he turns up for a game he doesn't know where on the pitch rafa will put him.

PLEASE RAFA PUT STEVIE BACK WHERE HE BELONGS IN THE MIDDLE

by **Thehobo** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:43 am

good man

for me our problem has been we havent got a drive from midfield

like i said sissoko tries it but fails, hes better as a holding role type in centre mid

arsenal have fabergas who drives, makes off the ball runs, little one twos.......

man utd have scholes.......but also great wingers who make things happen

chelsea have many centre mids who drive and make things happen

we have gerrard, but he is stuck out on the wing to accomadate the wrong balance in centre mid

by **Rimetto_** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:52 am

Rimetto_ wrote:
Thehobo wrote:reina - not good enough for a title winning team

finnan - same as reina

carragher - this season hes been poor, hes had his two good seasons, now hes back to how he used to be, an average determined defender

hyypia - to slow now, in mind and body, agger please

riise - never thought he was good enough to be in a title winning team, many left backs are better than him

Gerrard - must be annoyed to be playing with so many average players

alonso - cant tacke, to static, doesnt run off the ball, sits and passes waywardly these days

sissoko - good, his heart is in the right place, he should stay and play holding role, alonso must go

gonzalez - lightening speed, was suprised he went off, he will be good

kuyt - good but he needs support

garcia - good at home, terrible away

i totally agree with your comments especially about alonso and momo. For me momo should be in the middle alonside gerrard.

gerrard is not himself this season and that has to be because when he turns up for a game he doesn't know where on the pitch rafa will put him.

PLEASE RAFA PUT STEVIE BACK WHERE HE BELONGS IN THE MIDDLE

what i meant to say was i totally agree with the the momo and alonso comments.

Alonso has been a shadow of himself this season and it baffles me that he keeps getting pick ahead of Stevie. We miss his drive from the centre of the pitch. Plus why go out and buy a right and left winger and then play gerrard there. like i said baffling

by **sophe_lfc_4_lyf** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:17 am

Its gettin beyond a joke us losing all these games..
So i just find it funny now

x

by **mattylfc** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:23 am

Not sure where to start really. I find it so annoying that you have to read so much rubbish to get to the posts that are actually worth reading.

Yesterday was very poor and i was left with such a strange feeling when the final whistle blew. I was watching it round round my brothers house with mainly liverpool supporters and a few mancs. I found that i just couldnt argue with the mancs because we offered absolutely nothing in the game and did not deserve anything from the game. I was dying for us to create some chances so that i could feel miserable at the fact that we should have won but it just didnt happen.

After the first 5mins i had a really good feeling and felt we would definitely get something from the game but the confidence soon disappeared.

In terms of the line-up i dont think there was too much i would have changed prior to the game, the main change would probably be Crouch for Garcia but its easy to say now.

I really dont like to slate garcia as i do like the guy but away from home he really is terrible at times and yesterday there was no change. Unfortunately for us though, he is the one man that is a natural link up player between the forwards and the midfield. Everytime Garcia retrieved the ball yesterday though the move came to an abrupt end as he either ran into a brick wall, tried a flick or gave the ball away under no real pressure. This is the one thing we didnt need as it was crucial for us to hold the ball up when we were in their third so that we could try and develop the play, Garcia must be so frustrating to play with when he plays like that.

The one thing i couldnt believe though is the midfield. The mancs midfield four was so unbelievably lightweight physically (Giggs,Fletcher,Carrick,Scholes) when compared to Sissoko, Gerrard,Alonso and Gonzalez but through grit, passion and determination they won pretty much everything in the midfield. That coupled with the fact that all of our midfield gave the ball away on numerous occasions when under no real pressure meant that we were always going to sruggle.

The main problem though in my opinion was highlighted not just in our game yesterday but in Arsenals too. In Alonso and Sissoko we have two world class players but neither are able to get up and support the forwards from CM. Watching the Arsenal game, you had Fabregas in the box on more than one occasion linking up with Henry. Other clubs have the likes of Ballack, lampard and scholes yetserday who will all chip in with a few goals. You look at our midfield and you just wonder where the goals are going to come from (especially with Gerrard not firing at the moment).

Something must change and i think Benitez would be more tempted to have Gerrard in the middle driving forward if he had more confidence in his wide men (pennant,garcia). I am a massive fan of both Alonso and Sissoko and i know they have different qualities but i just wonder if we now need to play Gerrard in the centre on a regular basis and have Alonso or Sissoko rotating to suit the opposition. Gerrard is the one player that will get forward from centre midfield and will provide a link bewteen attack and midfield. I know the thought of Alonso or sissoko being on the bench seems unthinkable but for the good of the team it just may be the solution.

What are your thoughts?

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:49 am

I think our main problem is we still don't have a striker who looks lke scoring 20 goals a season. Since Michael Owen left we haven't had a player who you know needs one chance to put the ball away.

Look at the forwards we have had (I apologise to the youngsters who don't know/remember some of these).

St John
Toshack
Keegan
Dalglish
Aldridge
Rush
Fowler
Owen

Wehave been blessed with amazing forwards, but now?

I think Kuyt may come good. He works hard but doesn't seem to play high enough up the field.

Crouch - Camazingly could be our highest goal scorer if Rafa gives him mor of a chance But is he a world beater??

Bellamy - Again, works hard but never a 20 goal a season guy

Fowler - Cannot get fit. Before he left he had trouble with his back, that now seems to be the problem again. Unfortunately probably years of playing at a ver high leverl has taken its toll.

If you look at last season our strikers where pretty un efficient in front of goal. Our highjest goalscorer being Steven Gerrard. How many has he scored this year... 0.

Our attempts on goal this year have been excellent, but our goal per attwmpt must be the lowest in the league. I really believe once our forwards get their shooting boots on you will see a different Liverpool. Saying that we did play badly on Sunday, but every team plays badly at some time, our problem is when we are playing well we are still not scoring.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:53 am

mattylfc wrote:Not sure where to start really. I find it so annoying that you have to read so much rubbish to get to the posts that are actually worth reading.

Yesterday was very poor and i was left with such a strange feeling when the final whistle blew. I was watching it round round my brothers house with mainly liverpool supporters and a few mancs. I found that i just couldnt argue with the mancs because we offered absolutely nothing in the game and did not deserve anything from the game. I was dying for us to create some chances so that i could feel miserable at the fact that we should have won but it just didnt happen.

After the first 5mins i had a really good feeling and felt we would definitely get something from the game but the confidence soon disappeared.

In terms of the line-up i dont think there was too much i would have changed prior to the game, the main change would probably be Crouch for Garcia but its easy to say now.

I really dont like to slate garcia as i do like the guy but away from home he really is terrible at times and yesterday there was no change. Unfortunately for us though, he is the one man that is a natural link up player between the forwards and the midfield. Everytime Garcia retrieved the ball yesterday though the move came to an abrupt end as he either ran into a brick wall, tried a flick or gave the ball away under no real pressure. This is the one thing we didnt need as it was crucial for us to hold the ball up when we were in their third so that we could try and develop the play, Garcia must be so frustrating to play with when he plays like that.

The one thing i couldnt believe though is the midfield. The mancs midfield four was so unbelievably lightweight physically (Giggs,Fletcher,Carrick,Scholes) when compared to Sissoko, Gerrard,Alonso and Gonzalez but through grit, passion and determination they won pretty much everything in the midfield. That coupled with the fact that all of our midfield gave the ball away on numerous occasions when under no real pressure meant that we were always going to sruggle.

The main problem though in my opinion was highlighted not just in our game yesterday but in Arsenals too. In Alonso and Sissoko we have two world class players but neither are able to get up and support the forwards from CM. Watching the Arsenal game, you had Fabregas in the box on more than one occasion linking up with Henry. Other clubs have the likes of Ballack, lampard and scholes yetserday who will all chip in with a few goals. You look at our midfield and you just wonder where the goals are going to come from (especially with Gerrard not firing at the moment).

Something must change and i think Benitez would be more tempted to have Gerrard in the middle driving forward if he had more confidence in his wide men (pennant,garcia). I am a massive fan of both Alonso and Sissoko and i know they have different qualities but i just wonder if we now need to play Gerrard in the centre on a regular basis and have Alonso or Sissoko rotating to suit the opposition. Gerrard is the one player that will get forward from centre midfield and will provide a link bewteen attack and midfield. I know the thought of Alonso or sissoko being on the bench seems unthinkable but for the good of the team it just may be the solution.

What are your thoughts?

Good post mate :buttrock

by **mattylfc** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:57 am

I have just realised that much of my post was allready mentioned in the gerrard in the middle thread. Sorry about that, i hadnnt read it when i made my post.

Think it was you Bamaga man, you made some very good points.

by **Graeme Noble** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:52 pm

puroresu wrote:Its a joke. Where are all those saying in Rafa we trust. He got it all wrong once again and Im sick of the excuses. Our title campaign is over, we have no chance in the CL so lets all look forward to the FA and Carling cup. Great.

Remember last season when many thought our lack of potency up front was due to Cisse and Morenties. Well people neither of them are around anymore yet we still aint scoring goals or ever actually look dangerous. Put Henry in the side and he would struggle. Our attacking play is poor, and has no real quality. We struggle to string 5 passes together and the service to the front men is abyssmal at times. Arsenal went to Old Trafford needing to win and outplayed Utd even without Henry. They went 1 up but it wasnt negative. We went to Old Trafford needing to win and Rafa decided to put out a side trying not to get beat. People might not want to admit it but our style of football compared to Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea is a joke. We are way behind!!! Why does Rafa keep making these subs at the 50 min mark, whats the point. Im so damn frustrated. All those that thought the draw away to Sheff UTD was ok, what do u think now.

Another thing, Rafa's record against the big 3 is shocking.

It is a joke. Also, Garcia was absolute :censored:

today, why on earth is he still a Liverpool player. Granted, he has scored some vital goals, but he is way too inconsistent for us.

by **puroresu** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:12 pm

Graeme Noble wrote:
puroresu wrote:Its a joke. Where are all those saying in Rafa we trust. He got it all wrong once again and Im sick of the excuses. Our title campaign is over, we have no chance in the CL so lets all look forward to the FA and Carling cup. Great.

Remember last season when many thought our lack of potency up front was due to Cisse and Morenties. Well people neither of them are around anymore yet we still aint scoring goals or ever actually look dangerous. Put Henry in the side and he would struggle. Our attacking play is poor, and has no real quality. We struggle to string 5 passes together and the service to the front men is abyssmal at times. Arsenal went to Old Trafford needing to win and outplayed Utd even without Henry. They went 1 up but it wasnt negative. We went to Old Trafford needing to win and Rafa decided to put out a side trying not to get beat. People might not want to admit it but our style of football compared to Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea is a joke. We are way behind!!! Why does Rafa keep making these subs at the 50 min mark, whats the point. Im so damn frustrated. All those that thought the draw away to Sheff UTD was ok, what do u think now.

Another thing, Rafa's record against the big 3 is shocking.

It is a joke. Also, Garcia was absolute today, why on earth is he still a Liverpool player. Granted, he has scored some vital goals, but he is way too inconsistent for us.

Agreed. Moves break down cos Garcia and his antics.

He would never make it a top side in Spain just cos his so much of a liability. Garcia could be a great player if he just understood the basics. i.e. keeping the ball is vital!!!

by **dawson99** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:34 pm

Garcia is a good player. We just need to know how to use him properly. We need him for his attacking, not defending. and a game at old trafford is not suited to him.

Look at what hes done in the past. He can change a game but it has to be a certain type of game

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