Liverpool FC Forum

by **IstanBuL-FenerBaHce** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:32 pm

Thats Usa who monopolize the Middle East.

They close their eyes, and let Israel to do whatever they want. (Like big boss and his puppet)

And NOBODY can shout that there is a VIOLENCE in the region. Turkey, England, UN etc...Just Zapatero (Spanish leader) told something about Israels brutality.. Thats all..

Is it equivalent?..Hundreds of civilian(with lots of children women) for 2 kidnapped soldiers

There is a huge pact between Usa, Israel and the other puppets, for the patrol and controlling the region..

by **metalhead** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:04 pm

woof woof ! wrote:
metalhead wrote:i want lebanon to win

So do I but I think it will go into extra time and possibly penalties .

no, i hate penalties

Anyone saw the Press conference after the roma meeting? our PM really talked well about his issues and answered very correctly to the questions asked to him.

and what are your thoughts on Israel bombing the UN post in the south of lebanon, killing 4 unarmed UN watchers? do you think it was an "accident", i mean its obvious it wasn't and accident!!!

by **IstanBuL-FenerBaHce** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:14 pm

metalhead wrote:Anyone saw the Press conference after the roma meeting? our PM really talked well about his issues and answered very correctly to the questions asked to him.

and what are your thoughts on Israel bombing the UN post in the south of lebanon, killing 4 unarmed UN watchers? do you think it was an "accident", i mean its obvious it wasn't and accident!!!

I watched the press conference but then turned TV off..Condelezza Rice's two-facedness and unconcern disgusted me..

Ah by the way Metalhead, i agree with you..In every Israel bombing lots of civilians, UN watchers, independent doctors, foreign volunteers dead ""accidentally""

Dying accidentally in civil and neutral areas!!

What a joke!

by **metalhead** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:17 pm

IstanBuL-FenerBaHce wrote:
metalhead wrote:Anyone saw the Press conference after the roma meeting? our PM really talked well about his issues and answered very correctly to the questions asked to him.

and what are your thoughts on Israel bombing the UN post in the south of lebanon, killing 4 unarmed UN watchers? do you think it was an "accident", i mean its obvious it wasn't and accident!!!

I watched the press conference but then turned TV off..Condelezza Rice's two-facedness and unconcern disgusted me..

Ah by the way Metalhead, i agree with you..In every Israel bombing lots of civilians, UN watchers, independent doctors, foreign volunteers dead ""accidentally""

Dying accidentally in civil and neutral areas!!

What a joke!

Agreed

Condy disgusted me too!! :angry:

by **Sabre** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:51 pm

According to the BBC and other respected sources, the U.N asked 10 times to stop the attack that eventually killed the 4 U.N watchers, and Israel says it's an error. If you dare to say the truth , that they're a bunch of dirty murderers, they say you're antisionist. Ah well.

I have no problems to call the IRAK terrorists what they are: terrorists. I don't see why some nations can't name properly what Israel is doing.

by **hawkmoon269** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:56 pm

I'm reading a lot of condemnation of Israel, but where is your condemnation of the rocket attacks into Israel - or are we all blind to that?

by **Sabre** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:07 pm

I already wrote .

The civilians killed in Haifa are unacceptable, and should be stopped, and I agree you that Israel have the right to attack the positions from where those attacks come from.

I acknowledge the right of Israel to exist (needless to say!)and to defend themselves, not to do whatever they want.

by **hawkmoon269** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:11 pm

Thx Sabre - didn't see that. But I do believe there are too many sheep in the world.

by **IstanBuL-FenerBaHce** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:27 pm

Sabre wrote:I acknowledge the right of Israel to exist (needless to say!)and to defend themselves, not to do whatever they want.

Thats it Sabre.

Israel army is one of the most 3 powerful armies on the world. They can solve the problems with acceptable war strategies. They can organise anti-terror teams, they can use their MOSSAD agents with full strength and so so..

Turkey fights against terror for 15 years, and i dont remember any civil lose in that regions. If u are threatened by terror, then fight with terrorists.

Lebanon is a independent country, not a terror camp.

by **hawkmoon269** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:38 pm

IstanBuL-FenerBaHce wrote:
Sabre wrote:I acknowledge the right of Israel to exist (needless to say!)and to defend themselves, not to do whatever they want.

Thats it Sabre.

Israel army is one of the most 3 powerful armies on the world. They can solve the problems with acceptable war strategies. They can organise anti-terror teams, they can use their MOSSAD agents with full strength and so so..

Turkey fights against terror for 15 years, and i dont remember any civil lose in that regions. If u are threatened by terror, then fight with terrorists.

Lebanon is a independent country, not a terror camp.

But that's the thing - if Israel went in with Special Forces, they'd still be vilified by the Arab/Muslim world - they're in a no win situation. If they sit back and allow the terrorists to attack, letting world opinion go in their favour - then their own citizens are killed/outraged. If they attack back (no matter which way) they outrage the Arab/Muslim people.

I think the Arab/Muslim world needs to sort its own "rouge" elements out. But then thats not going to happen either!!! When they are killing Israelis they are not killing themselves.

by **metalhead** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:19 pm

hawkmoon269 wrote:
IstanBuL-FenerBaHce wrote:
Sabre wrote:I acknowledge the right of Israel to exist (needless to say!)and to defend themselves, not to do whatever they want.

Thats it Sabre.

Israel army is one of the most 3 powerful armies on the world. They can solve the problems with acceptable war strategies. They can organise anti-terror teams, they can use their MOSSAD agents with full strength and so so..

Turkey fights against terror for 15 years, and i dont remember any civil lose in that regions. If u are threatened by terror, then fight with terrorists.

Lebanon is a independent country, not a terror camp.

But that's the thing - if Israel went in with Special Forces, they'd still be vilified by the Arab/Muslim world - they're in a no win situation. If they sit back and allow the terrorists to attack, letting world opinion go in their favour - then their own citizens are killed/outraged. If they attack back (no matter which way) they outrage the Arab/Muslim people.

I think the Arab/Muslim world needs to sort its own "rouge" elements out. But then thats not going to happen either!!! When they are killing Israelis they are not killing themselves.

You are forgetting the huge U.S backup and aid to Israel.

This isn't the first time Israel did that to us, its the 7th time and its the 1st time Israel are being hit hard by hizballah. Plus, its Israel who are invading us, not hizballah.

I agree with you Sabre, Israel should limit their military campaign! they arent defending themselves, they aren't only hitting hizballah, they are destroying Lebanon and weakening its government. Isn't Israel's purpose in this war is to defeat hizballah? well are they killing them? i doubt it! and aren't they targeting every car that tries to run away or civilian building? YES! Hizballah has a really powerfull army, very very well trained and have high combat experience. I heard Nasrallah saying that hizballah are using tactics of what North Vitnamese soldiers used during the U.S-Vietnam war. Hawkmoon i know what you mean, but I'm Lebanese and i hate zionists.

by **hawkmoon269** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:36 am

metalhead wrote:
hawkmoon269 wrote:
IstanBuL-FenerBaHce wrote:
Sabre wrote:I acknowledge the right of Israel to exist (needless to say!)and to defend themselves, not to do whatever they want.

Thats it Sabre.

Israel army is one of the most 3 powerful armies on the world. They can solve the problems with acceptable war strategies. They can organise anti-terror teams, they can use their MOSSAD agents with full strength and so so..

Turkey fights against terror for 15 years, and i dont remember any civil lose in that regions. If u are threatened by terror, then fight with terrorists.

Lebanon is a independent country, not a terror camp.

But that's the thing - if Israel went in with Special Forces, they'd still be vilified by the Arab/Muslim world - they're in a no win situation. If they sit back and allow the terrorists to attack, letting world opinion go in their favour - then their own citizens are killed/outraged. If they attack back (no matter which way) they outrage the Arab/Muslim people.

I think the Arab/Muslim world needs to sort its own "rouge" elements out. But then thats not going to happen either!!! When they are killing Israelis they are not killing themselves.

You are forgetting the huge U.S backup and aid to Israel.

This isn't the first time Israel did that to us, its the 7th time and its the 1st time Israel are being hit hard by hizballah. Plus, its Israel who are invading us, not hizballah.

I agree with you Sabre, Israel should limit their military campaign! they arent defending themselves, they aren't only hitting hizballah, they are destroying Lebanon and weakening its government. Isn't Israel's purpose in this war is to defeat hizballah? well are they killing them? i doubt it! and aren't they targeting every car that tries to run away or civilian building? YES! Hizballah has a really powerfull army, very very well trained and have high combat experience. I heard Nasrallah saying that hizballah are using tactics of what North Vitnamese soldiers used during the U.S-Vietnam war. Hawkmoon i know what you mean, but I'm Lebanese and i hate zionists.

You are forgetting the huge U.S backup and aid to Israel.

What about the massive amounts of foreign aid (both US and European) that was being pumped into Palestine prior to Hamas being elected?

This isn't the first time Israel did that to us, its the 7th time and its the 1st time Israel are being hit hard by hizballah. Plus, its Israel who are invading us, not hizballah.

I think you're forgetting how all this started - Hizballah entered Israel and killed/kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Also there other times Israel went in, I think you'll find it was as a result of terrorist attacks on Israel.

I'm Lebanese and i hate zionists.

You've just proved my point - thank-you!!!!!! There will never be peace in the middle-east with attitudes like that!

Why can't the ordinary Palestinians see what their fellow citizens are doing to their country. We have all agreed that Israel have been heavyhanded in their relatiations. But that is just the point - they are retaliations. Lebanon is never going to be peaceful - there are too many factions jockying for power. And it's citizens are too eager to blame everyone else for their problems, and lack the ability to look objectively at their own backyards.

I admit Israeli hands are not clean - but neither are the Palestinians, the Americians, the British, the Syrians, and the Iranians. But blaming everyone but yourselves is not going to solve the problems.

I draw your attention to the analogy of the alcoholic. Unless the alcoholic can admit he has a drinking problem, then he can never be helped.

by **woof woof !** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:56 am

I have no love for the State of Isreal , I see their activities as facist , however I find it hard to disagree with Hawkmoons observations .

The Israelis have been fighting for decades for their very survival . No longer will they go meekly towards extermination .
Poke a mad dog with a stick and it will bite you .

Personally I think the entire region is f'ucked up with HATE,PARANOIA and FANATICISM , the sooner they all wipe each other out the better this world will be .

:talktothehand

by **laza** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:17 am

woof woof ! wrote:I have no love for the State of Isreal , I see their activities as facist , however I find it hard to disagree with Hawkmoons observations .

The Israelis have been fighting for decades for their very survival . No longer will they go meekly towards extermination .
Poke a mad dog with a stick and it will bite you .

Personally I think the entire region is f'ucked up with HATE,PARANOIA and FANATICISM , the sooner they all wipe each other out the better this world will be .

Yeah pretty much my view as well
Back when it was Palenstine, the Zionists were the terrorist who were happy to throw the bombs.
Now its the state of Israel they use missiles and tanks, however you cant stand by allow terror being inflicted on your state so you have to retatilate.
This is where guerilla warfare is so effective as Israel force is basically being used against itself.
For every fighter they kill, they are recruiting another 10. For every image of dead children they are losing more and more hearts and minds
End of the day they wont secure anything except decades more of cycles of violence.
Its the fanatics on both sides who will keep shouting rhetoric, but its average Joe who cops it

It aint changed in thousands of years........only the dead have seen the end of war

by **The Red Baron** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:49 am

hawkmoon269 wrote:I'm reading a lot of condemnation of Israel, but where is your condemnation of the rocket attacks into Israel - or are we all blind to that?

You wont here me condeming Israel.For the record Iam not Jewish,and have no connections with Israel.We have all read Metalheads posts in this thread,and I sympathise with his situation.What is Israel supposed to do? Dont forget it was an incursion into Israel by Hizzbolah that started this latest conflict.If Israel had not reacted to the capture/kidnap of its soldiers would there be any posts condemming the actions of Hizzbolah,Idoubt it.Life would have carried on in Lebanon, rocket attacks on Israel would have continued,thats ok we will give the Zionists a bloody nose.As soon as Isreal retaliates there is uproar.
Metalhead I think you are right this is not about two kidnapped soldiers,this is about enough is enough.While your country which has its own armed forces,allows Hizzbolah to opperate as a secondary or more likely its primary military force you will always incur the wrath of Israel.

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