Liverpool FC Forum

by **GunGod** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:25 pm

drummerphil wrote:he cant go anywhere until summer,another reason why i dont think these bloody transfer windows do any good for a club.Someone please tell me any purpose they serve.If i had my shít hanging around for 5 months i would be made to move it on,why should Rafa be any different........

The transfer window, if I'm not mistaken, is there to prevent the richer clubs from bringing in players at whim. This is to protect the lesser clubs from having to play with the same 20 odd players while the richer clubs change any parts that's not working for them any time during the season.

On Moro, when he signed I guess 99% (includes me) of us were cheering about what a coup it was. Moro when he came was a big name, probably the only true big name we have signed in the last few seasons (and Kewell).

I have two opinions on why he can't score. 1: It isn't his fault as the system we play does not favour strikers. This is backed by the fact that none of our strikers are scoring anyway. Furthermore, we have no decent corner takers. The corners that come in do not have the swerve and bend to confuse the defence. And when it does have the swerve, our own players are confused as well. There is a lack of communication (and practice) in our corner set pieces. I can't remember the last time the opposition had more corners than us in a match. If we just converted 1 corner per 2 (or even 3) games, that would do us a whole lot of good. If Chelski can get Terry to score regularly from corners, I don't see why we can't get Moro to do the same. Yet, I don't remember the image of Moro connecting powerfully to a corner with his head, less to say score.That's why most of our goals come randomly, and not systematically. Look at Chelski, they are scoring regularly and a third of their goals are probably replicas in one way or another. As for us, most of the time its just hit and hope.

2: He just can't cut it in the prem. Short and succint explanation. Pace, is the main problem.

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:30 pm

I agree and disagree about some of the comments made about Nando.

I believe him to be a class act. He gets into great positions (like all great strikers) on several occassions during a match. However I also see the point of how many times do I see this without him actually putting the ball in the back of the net. In a game like last night you need that predatory instinct to kill off teams. I believe that Nando has the ability to score a lot of goals for Liverpool and I believe Rafa has a similar belief (hence Nando playing so many games of late).

Don't get me wrong....I am growing increasingly frustrated by him but can see light at the end of the tunnel with him. He WILL score goals for LFC!

by **bbw** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:30 pm

The trouble is, the more diss Morientes, the less confidence he is going to have in scoring. It is confidence that he lacks. I think he desperately wants to make it here in the 'Pool. He is happy here, Xabi and Luis are settled too. Don't you remember on Boxing Day that his buddy Raul was in an Anfield box with his family and they were all wearing Morientes shirts? This told me that he really wants to make it here.

I know we cannot keep players on sentiment alone, this defeating the great game's object. It is obvious he has ability, and his style could work with the Robmeister General (the General to be pronounced in a Spanish accent).

Whether we like it or not, Morientes is with us until the end of the season, so I reckon the less pressure put on him, the more likely he will come good.

by **115-1073096938** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:31 pm

Scottbot wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
Scottbot wrote:I thought Morientes had a fair game last night. He worked hard (he always does), made some clever runs and again showed he has some telepathy playing with Robbie. There's such a fine line between success and failure (for the team or the player.) If Moro puts the header (that went just wide) into the top corner and connects with the air-shot he had in the first half then suddenly everyone on here is singing the lad's praises and saying how he is turnining the corner. Maybe if he can get a couple of goals in consecutive games we will see the real Morientes? Confidence is everything to a forward. Just look at Kewell now. He's been our best attacking player (for me) for the past month.

Personally i think Moro will be on his way back to Spain in the summer but i still feel he could have a big part to play in Europe this season. As for why he hasn't been a success so far; To play in England i figure you have to have pace. If you lack pace then you need to be strong. Moro looks like he should/could be strong enough to play in England. He has the physique to bully defenders (even English ones) but i don't think he has the mentality to do this (a'la Heskey.) If you're lacking in pace and are not quite strong enough then i figure you have to be a VERY clever player to succeed in this league. Moro is a clever player but is he clever enough?

Fowler never had pace or strength.

Fowler was no burner but he was quick over 10-15 yards. Especially before the injuries took their toll. Certainly quicker than Moro who is predestrian at best. Robbie was/is also stronger than Morientes.

Zola, another one, never quick or strong.

Its not about pace and strength. Its about being good enough.

Fowler was never quick over 10-15 yards, he was pretty much exactly as he was last night. He used anticipation to gain yards in the box exactly how he did when he got that chance and brought a fantastic save from Lehman who was by far man of the match.

by **murphy0151** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:35 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
Scottbot wrote:I thought Morientes had a fair game last night. He worked hard (he always does), made some clever runs and again showed he has some telepathy playing with Robbie. There's such a fine line between success and failure (for the team or the player.) If Moro puts the header (that went just wide) into the top corner and connects with the air-shot he had in the first half then suddenly everyone on here is singing the lad's praises and saying how he is turnining the corner. Maybe if he can get a couple of goals in consecutive games we will see the real Morientes? Confidence is everything to a forward. Just look at Kewell now. He's been our best attacking player (for me) for the past month.

Personally i think Moro will be on his way back to Spain in the summer but i still feel he could have a big part to play in Europe this season. As for why he hasn't been a success so far; To play in England i figure you have to have pace. If you lack pace then you need to be strong. Moro looks like he should/could be strong enough to play in England. He has the physique to bully defenders (even English ones) but i don't think he has the mentality to do this (a'la Heskey.) If you're lacking in pace and are not quite strong enough then i figure you have to be a VERY clever player to succeed in this league. Moro is a clever player but is he clever enough?

Fowler never had pace or strength.

Fowler was no burner but he was quick over 10-15 yards. Especially before the injuries took their toll. Certainly quicker than Moro who is predestrian at best. Robbie was/is also stronger than Morientes.

Zola, another one, never quick or strong.

Its not about pace and strength. Its about being good enough.

Fowler was never quick over 10-15 yards, he was pretty much exactly as he was last night. He used anticipation to gain yards in the box exactly how he did when he got that chance and brought a fantastic save from Lehman who was by far man of the match.

Pretty much exactly the way he was last night.

:bowdown

Classical stu

by **taff** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:37 pm

Fowler is made for Morientes and vive versa. Wait till they have had a few games then judge.

Want Morientes excellnt with Raul who is a Fowler style player

by **gato_busta** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:37 pm

If it wasn't for Lehman this topic might not even be up. I've always slagged Lehman that he was the only problem Arsenal had (that is until they sold Vieira). Really had a brilliant match.

The Fowler-Morientes combination looks great even if they have not scored yet. If Benitez gives them a couple more games they will bring the goods to the team. Rafa didn't give up on Kewell who almost everyone wanted out of the team (I admit I was one of them) because he knew he was good enough, and if he thinks Morientes is good enough too we should back him on that.

by **7_Kewell** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:39 pm

gato_busta wrote:If it wasn't for Lehman this topic might not even be up. I've always slagged Lehman that he was the only problem Arsenal had (that is until they sold Vieira). Really had a brilliant match.

The Fowler-Morientes combination looks great even if they have not scored yet. If Benitez gives them a couple more games they will bring the goods to the team. Rafa didn't give up on Kewell who almost everyone wanted out of the team (I admit I was one of them) because he knew he was good enough, and if he thinks Morientes is good enough too we should back him on that.

Kewell was injured and rafa knew he needed a run in the team when fully fit....Morientes and Cisse can't use this excuse.

by **gato_busta** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:00 pm

Kewell was injured but even before injury he was not living up to what everyone expected from him. The same happens with Morientes. People expected too much from him. I agree, he might not be the player liverpool needs for the long run but we can't get a new striker until the transfer window opens, we have to settle with what we have. His partnership with Fowler seems to me as our best option until now and they have just started together twice.

by **Ace Ventura** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:44 pm

Morientes had one of his better games in a red shirt last night and there does seem a decent understanding between him and Robbie.
Neither has scored in the 2 games they have started together, but they have linked together really well and i havent seen any other partnership do that for us this season.
I would start them both against Benfica, the signs are definately there that Nando is happier playing alongside Robbie.
We are stuck with what we have got and with Crouch struggling with injury then the 2 should be given a run together to see if the partnership will really hit it off.
Morientes has deserved the stick he's been receiving lately, he has been woeful, but anyone who watched last nights match could see he performed well, and deserved a goal.
Its a bit of a cliche but once one goes in for him it might really bring his confidence back.
BTW was made up to see Luis back, we have missed him so much. He needs to sort his hair out though, not impressed with the new wolf man look

by **JBG** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:32 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Zola, another one, never quick or strong.

For a small man, Zola was incredibly strong. Much stronger than the likes of Luis Garcia, for example.

He was built like a brick :censored:

.house........he just wasn't very tall. :blush:

by **bigmick** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:47 pm

Despite the fact that I have been very critical of Morientes for just about the whole of this season and indeed from from very early in the piece after he signed, I felt he had one of his better games last night.

JBG is correct in saying that me and him have disagreed (amicably of course) over the contribution or lack thereof of Nando, and my problem has largely been that he has little or no influence over too many games and what's more never looks like scoring. Last night that wasn't the case as he had a couple of chances.

To score consistently, a striker must broadly do one of two things. He must either A) make himself open lots of times in the box with movement and constant re-alignment. Crespo, Owen and Van Nistelroy are masters of this. The only variable is whether or not their teammates can feed them in. Van Nistelroy will make himself open for the pass in the Liverpool box on a number of occasions on saturday. Hopefully good defending to block or poor delivery will prevent him from scoring but you know if they get the ball out wide he will go in to the near post, check out and back track, stand still dive back in near and then duck out again. In short he is a brilliant striker (also unfortunately a horrible ponce but there you go) who will always score goals.

Similarly Crespo with his arcing runs away from the point of play, never in the line of sight of the central defender then bosh it's in the back of the net. Note Owen's first goal for the barcodes against Blackburn. away from the line of sight of the defender and then BAM infront of Ryan Nelson and scores with a nearpost header. The Blackburn man didn't know what was going on, he didn't even see Owen and did the old full flex of the neck muscles to head out a ball that never even reached him.

This type of forward play has been totally absent from our team this season, none of our strikers do this with the notable exception Of Luis Garcia whose movement is excellent. Clever movement also includes moving to anticipate rebounds. It won't bounce to you every time but it won't bounce to you at all if you stay stood behind a defender all night. It's all about playing the percentages, taking a gamble, getting yourself open. Last night Morientes did some good movement for the header from Gerrards cross. Ok it missed but it was a good effort and encouraging.

How to score consistently part B) is quite simply a DIY effort. Once again we have been bereft of inspirational striker play. Chelsea's second goal at Stamford bridge against us. Was it a good goal, a classy build up? No it was simply a striker playing off a defenders shoulder, gambling that the ball might get played down the channel and then converted with a fantastic finish. Bad defending? not really, a goal out of nothing. Look at Thierry Henri, the amount of times he gets played in is high but equally high are the occasions he makes a goal out of nothing. You've got him and then bang, it's 1-0. Everyone looks at each other but your one down. Van Nistelroy does it aswell though not as often as Henri at his best. Owen very rarely does it, he prefers to rely on his clever movemnt to rack up the goals.

It was lovely to see Fowlers effort last night, a chance created out of nothing. A ghost into the box folowed by a sublime first touch creating the opportunity to score.

Sooner or later we are going to have to accept that ourfront players must score goals. If they continually make themselves open in the box, and they posess enough talent to go DIY and change a tight game in an instant then we will have a team to be feared. Last night was encouraging, particularly as in these days of windows and such-like we are stuck with what we've got. My suspicion is howeve rthat come the end of the season, Morientes and Cisse at least will be traded in for players who can do more often what I have described.

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:51 pm

Mick, paragraph that lad, looks a little overwhelming.

by **bigmick** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:52 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:Mick, paragraph that lad, looks a little overwhelming.

fair play I'll go back. Got the bit between me teeth and was off.

by **Leonmc0708** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:54 pm

bigmick wrote:
Leonmc0708 wrote:Mick, paragraph that lad, looks a little overwhelming.

fair play I'll go back. Got the bit between me teeth and was off.

Read it now, and as ever you talk a lot of sense.

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