Liverpool FC Forum

by **A.B.** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:13 am

But he's not going to perform for England like he is for us. Are you telling me that he would play with an injury for months like he did for us recently for England?

I rather he didn't play for England, I don't want to see him injured.

by **Dundalk** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:20 am

A.B. wrote:I rather he didn't play for England, I don't want to see him injured.

Well Im happy days with that, i dont want to see him, Gerrard, Crouch or any of the Spanish boys playing international football either.

But thats not the way it is going to happen

by **Kid a** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:40 am

I think this whole "He plays so well because he's playing for our club, and he would never have the same form anywhere else" thing that is being said is utter garbage. If a player doesn't want to play for their national team, they don't have to. If a player was so focused on his club career, they would refuse a call up. Playing for your National team is a hassle, if you're not into it. You would just look at it as a headache in many aspects. Extra traveling, etc. It's an honor to play for your country, as well as an extra challenge. I see Carra as the type of player who gives his all in every game, no matter what. It's certainly a different atmosphere playing at Anfield with Liverpool than with England out and about, but that's about it. If you're happy with your surroundings and confident, it doesn't matter for what club or team you play for. It will show in your performances. If a player can shine at club level (In the Premiership, and against top teams in Europe), why wouldn't they shine at international level if given the chance?? This labeling of "World Class" is silly. "Nah, he's quality and gets the job done brilliantly every time he steps on the pitch - but he's not "world class"." Wtf?? Shouldn't form have anything to do with your labeling?? I'd take a player who doesn't have perfect attributes but still gets the job done, over someone with a big reputation and seems to have more skill but doesn't play as well. Just my opinion.

by **redsince2001** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:02 pm

Best player for us in the last 2 seasons....
Wears his heart on his sleeve and gives it his all for this great club....role model for all Lfc supporters .....should be on a higher wage than stevie g for me , or atleast on a par...more loyal than stevie.
He is often overlooked so thanks for starting this thread!!

by **115-1073096938** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:12 pm

Players with world class ability don't always have great application.

Carragher has immense application because of his surroundings and the way he was brought up.

Ferdinand has far more ability than Carragher will ever have yet lacks the application. Terry again is more about application than ability.

You need ability to play internationally more than application. Terry and Carragher at international level against Brazil would simply get ripped apart.

The trouble is these days no-one knows there :censored:

from there elbow and can't spot a player when they see one. Its very rare these days infact for coaches to have that ability.

Its not hard, just these people today seem to want certain attributes over a footballer.

by ***XABIALONSO*** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:26 pm

Jari's mullet wrote:I would prefer for Gerrard and Carragher not to be involved in all the bullsh1t England friendlies.

were on about the world cup arent we

by **thegreedo** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:36 pm

stu_the_red wrote:You need ability to play internationally more than application. Terry and Carragher at international level against Brazil would simply get ripped apart.

You like to tailk as if you are some kind of all knowing sage when it comes to football Stu but really you're full of sh1t.

Are you honestly telling me that Lucio ang Roque Junior are on a different level to Carra and Terry. I know who I'd rather have in my team and if you could take your head out of your ars@ for long enough I'm sure you'd agree.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:20 pm

Erickson's biggest weakness as England coach is the loyalty he shows to his preferred players regardless of the form they are showing. Clearly he rates Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell and a fit Woodgate over Carra. But, Ferdinand has not delivered this season, Campbell can't stay clear of injury (this may be the case for the rest of his career bearing in mind the size of the man) and Woodgate is more injury prone than Darren Anderton. Personally, i believe Carra should be given a better opportunity to compete with Ferdinand for that spot alongside John Terry.

On form, Carra and Terry are the two best Centre-Halves in the country closely followed by Ledley King at Spurs. I don't really buy into the 'form is temporary, class is permanent' schol of thought. If a player is having a rough time for his club (Ferdinand fits the bill) then he deserves to be dropped at international level. Ferdinand at the top of his game is (for me) the best defender in the country at international level but i would prefer to see form players get a crack at playing for England.

I do feel that Carra was slightly overated (just as he was underated before) on these boards last season. If he made a mistake it seemed to go un-noticed while Hyppia has been (prematurely) slaughtered on here many times.
However, Carragher has been a collossis at the back this season (it's neck and neck between him and Stevie for our best player thus far) and i still can't believe this is only his 2nd season playing centre-half. The lad is growing by the game and i'm excited to see how good he can become.

If he keeps playing at this level then he deserves a start for England.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:28 pm

Totally unrelated but i can't bothered to start anew thread on it, but what the fook has happened to the Liverpoolfc.tv website? It's been :censored:

for weeks. I figured half the staff must have gone down with a bug or something but it's not got back on track. You have to wait untill about two days after a game to get all the after-stuff. One of the latest headlines on there at the mo is 'We need to beat Boro'.

Pull yer finger out LFC!

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:41 pm

thegreedo wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:You need ability to play internationally more than application. Terry and Carragher at international level against Brazil would simply get ripped apart.

You like to tailk as if you are some kind of all knowing sage when it comes to football Stu but really you're full of sh1t.

Are you honestly telling me that Lucio ang Roque Junior are on a different level to Carra and Terry. I know who I'd rather have in my team and if you could take your head out of your ars@ for long enough I'm sure you'd agree.

When did i ever mention Lucio of Roque Junior?

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:44 pm

Scottbot wrote:Erickson's biggest weakness as England coach is the loyalty he shows to his preferred players regardless of the form they are showing. Clearly he rates Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell and a fit Woodgate over Carra. But, Ferdinand has not delivered this season, Campbell can't stay clear of injury (this may be the case for the rest of his career bearing in mind the size of the man) and Woodgate is more injury prone than Darren Anderton. Personally, i believe Carra should be given a better opportunity to compete with Ferdinand for that spot alongside John Terry.

On form, Carra and Terry are the two best Centre-Halves in the country closely followed by Ledley King at Spurs. I don't really buy into the 'form is temporary, class is permanent' schol of thought. If a player is having a rough time for his club (Ferdinand fits the bill) then he deserves to be dropped at international level. Ferdinand at the top of his game is (for me) the best defender in the country at international level but i would prefer to see form players get a crack at playing for England.

I do feel that Carra was slightly overated (just as he was underated before) on these boards last season. If he made a mistake it seemed to go un-noticed while Hyppia has been (prematurely) slaughtered on here many times.
However, Carragher has been a collossis at the back this season (it's neck and neck between him and Stevie for our best player thus far) and i still can't believe this is only his 2nd season playing centre-half. The lad is growing by the game and i'm excited to see how good he can become.

If he keeps playing at this level then he deserves a start for England.

It certainly isn't his second season.

And you don't buy into the "class is permanent" saying?

Well more fool you. Players have a level of ability which doesn't change much throughout there career. Great players are great players and being on top of your own game doesn't make you better than someone else. Lampards been on top of his own game for years and consistent aswell, he's nowhere near the class of player Scholes was a few years ago though.

by **XSD** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:03 pm

stu_the_red wrote:He isn't in there class. Anyone who thinks he is doesn't know football. He's not international class.

What team have you been watching for the last two seasons? Since Benitez moved him to centre-half on a permanent basis he has been twice the player he was before and easily one of the top centre-backs in the world.
Maybe it's more down to hard work than talent, and maybe he couldn't play the same for England or at another club. But he is a world class centre half for Liverpool, that is all he needs to be.

by **kazza** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:31 pm

A.B. wrote:But he's not going to perform for England like he is for us. Are you telling me that he would play with an injury for months like he did for us recently for England?

I rather he didn't play for England, I don't want to see him injured.

Easy for you to say, you are a f.ucking yank

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:40 pm

XSD wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:He isn't in there class. Anyone who thinks he is doesn't know football. He's not international class.

What team have you been watching for the last two seasons? Since Benitez moved him to centre-half on a permanent basis he has been twice the player he was before and easily one of the top centre-backs in the world.
Maybe it's more down to hard work than talent, and maybe he couldn't play the same for England or at another club. But he is a world class centre half for Liverpool, that is all he needs to be.

So he's got more pace now? So he's more skillfull? So he's a better tackler and better in the air? Is he stronger and more aggressive? Does the fact that he's now playing centre half again make him a better player?

Really? Does it?

Don't be bloody stupid.

He's got more confidence, is a bit better in the air and has more leadership qualities than when he first broke into the side, thats about it.

The fact that he's now maximising his abilities doesn't mean he has more ability. He's playing in a system that suits him, for the club he clearly loves and FINALLY has the fans backing making him what he is.

BTW... I liked the quote he's world class for us but might not be for someone else. Thats the exact point i'm making, for us, he's at a "disguised" world class level. To suggest he has world class ability or is a world class player though is simply laughable.

He's what he promised to be as a youngster. A very good player with a great attitude who loves the club. Steven Warnock now is at the same level Jamie Carragher was a few years ago. He's a similar player, to suggest they are world class though is completely knowledgeless.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:28 pm

stu_the_red wrote:It certainly isn't his second season.

And you don't buy into the "class is permanent" saying?

That's petty Stu. Sure he spent a bit of time at Centre-Half earlier in his career but only now has Carra found a home in that postition.

I said i didn't buy the 'class is permanent' saying because i was trying to illustrate that it can be folly to stick with your supposed best players all of the time regardless of their form. This is particularly true at International level. Everyone knows what Erickson's starting 11 will come June 10th. It doesn't really matter how they perform between now and the summer. It shouldn't be like that.

I agree that ferdinand is a more talented player than Carra (as i said before) BUT i don't think the gap between the two is so big (at least not as big as you are making out)
If Ferdinand is struggling for form and confidence and Carragher is keeping clean sheets and playing like he's ten feet high is there really such a big gulf between the two players?

Some players need a bit of time to grow at International level. If i were Erikson i'd give Carragher the opportunity to at least challenge for a place in the side.

As a footnote Stu. You can be VERY condescending when you express your opinion (and try to remember it is just that - I sometimes forget when i'm reading your posts)

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