Why do so many dislike garcia?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Leonmc0708 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:10 pm

bigmick wrote:It's an interesting thread and one which as a confirmed Garcia fan, I considered starting myself to be honest. I think he's a fabulous footballer, one of the best players we have at the club and though admittedly he can be an annoying little bugger at times is well worth sticking with.
His goal on Saturday perfectly illustrated what he is all about. It's not about the finish, though it was a crisply struck first time shot with the right foot. It's all about the run, begun as the ball is on its way to Gerrard, before the capptain looks up. Similarly, his goal away to Betis which was crisply struck first time with his left foot, was all about the run he made accross the defender, begun just as Zenden was about to turn with the ball. He's a good guesser, a gambler on a football pitch with his movement.
In terms of him giving the ball away, I think the majority of this is caused by his failure to fully adapt to the physical nature of English football as of yet. I had hoped that he would have made more progress on this front this season but so far he doesn't seem to have. That said, given his frailty his goalscoring record from a starting position of wide right (usually) is nothing short of remarkable.

I could not agree more.

I think Garcia is a superb player, his goal scoring record is superb and he is the attacking edge that you often need when games are a bit of a stalemate.

The reason people get on his back is because he gives the ball away, and I agree it can be frustrating, but I will offer two reasons why rather than excuses for it:

1) He is unlike other players brave enough to try the flick/stepover/turn/dink etc on the pitch. So many players can do those kind of things, but are restricted by their manger/team formation from trying it.

2) New members of the squad, (and indeed older established  ones) need to adapt to Luis' style of play as much as Luis needs to adapt to the English league. Just like two strikers (are you reading this Cisse, Crouch, Nando and Ping Pong) need to form an almost telepathic understanding of each others movement and style of play, so do the other members of Luis' team need to understand what he will try to do with the ball.

You need different types of players in your first 11 to mould a winning team. Some need discipline and a great reading of the game, some stamina and a terrific engine to cover every blade of grass, some need lighning pace and a keen eye for goal, some agility and a bravery to put your body on the line and some need lots of skill and endevour and a good footballing brain.

Luis falls into the last category. The disciplined readers of the game, like Carragher for example are not the kind to see the killer pass or try the audacious lob from 35 yards (remember that Mr Buffon), so they give it to players that can/will in Luis.

Dont get me wrong, I think Luis needs to work on his game in terms of playing the more simple ball at times, but if he does give the ball away, its only through trying to create a chance for the team.
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Postby Red Rafa Revolution » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:17 pm

he somehow manage to make simple things difficult and difficult things seem so simple. if only he cuts out the flicks and stick to basic.
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Postby Santa » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:32 pm

Yup I agree that at many occasions I was frustrated by Luis...at times he would lost every possession each time he had the ball and put the team under tremendous pressure, then there are those games where he is the only difference between us and the strong opposition.

With good coaching and time, I believe he will be an indispensable player for us...
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:35 pm

Red Rafa Revolution wrote:if only he cuts out the flicks and stick to basic.

If he did stick to the basic and cut out the flicks then he would be Steven Davis (A.Villa), Damien Johnsen (Birmingham), Liam Rosenior (Fulham).

IE A journeyman/Average Joe Midfielder, capable of holding his own in the Premiership, but nothing special.

Luis is quite the opposite.
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Postby H_K_LFC » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:47 pm

he is a fustrating player and often doesnt make the right choice but he always scores important goals at vital times eg : against chelsea,juventus.......he has the ability to rip apart teams on his day but those days dnt come often enough.
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:48 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:I think Garcia is a superb player, his goal scoring record is superb and he is the attacking edge that you often need when games are a bit of a stalemate.

The reason people get on his back is because he gives the ball away, and I agree it can be frustrating, but I will offer two reasons why rather than excuses for it:

1) He is unlike other players brave enough to try the flick/stepover/turn/dink etc on the pitch. So many players can do those kind of things, but are restricted by their manger/team formation from trying it.

2) New members of the squad, (and indeed older established  ones) need to adapt to Luis' style of play as much as Luis needs to adapt to the English league. Just like two strikers (are you reading this Cisse, Crouch, Nando and Ping Pong) need to form an almost telepathic understanding of each others movement and style of play, so do the other members of Luis' team need to understand what he will try to do with the ball.

You need different types of players in your first 11 to mould a winning team. Some need discipline and a great reading of the game, some stamina and a terrific engine to cover every blade of grass, some need lighning pace and a keen eye for goal, some agility and a bravery to put your body on the line and some need lots of skill and endevour and a good footballing brain.

Luis falls into the last category. The disciplined readers of the game, like Carragher for example are not the kind to see the killer pass or try the audacious lob from 35 yards (remember that Mr Buffon), so they give it to players that can/will in Luis.

Dont get me wrong, I think Luis needs to work on his game in terms of playing the more simple ball at times, but if he does give the ball away, its only through trying to create a chance for the team.

I understand where you are coming from on this Leon , but Garcia has to realise that AT PRESENT his teamsmates aren't on the same wavelegnth and (imo)  he has to make allowances for that fact by cutting out the more ambitious flicks and tricks .

You mention the phrase "telepathic understanding" , that kind of understanding doesn't come overnight and with the continual changes in team personnel and the positions they play in I wonder if flair players like Garcia will ever have the chance to forge the kind of understanding woth teamates that his style of play demands .

  :(
Last edited by woof woof ! on Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LFC #1 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:49 pm

I think Leon and Bigmick have summed it up pretty well, the guy despite his inconsistency at times, is capable of producing something world class. He's a player who can win you matches with a cracking goal when he's had an absoulte stinker of a game.

Definitely a valauble member of the sqaud.
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Postby Anfield rapper » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:53 pm

I think the key thing about Garcia is he is a natural goal scorer. You don't see that too often. His problems can be sorted out but it will take time. When he has improved how well he holds onto the bal he will be a very dangerous player for us.
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Postby Judge » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:57 pm

doesnt anyone realise he was just a squad player at Barca, a utility man used as and when. That might show why he is so inconsistent playing all the time, he's not up to it....imo

however, when he was used as sub at Birmingham, he produced a good finish and neat touches, perhaps playing him in the middle as sub would be best for lfc. we should play cisse more up front with crouch regularly to see what happens, then use garcia as utility as sub. this is just my opinion
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Postby drummerphil » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:09 pm

I agree totally about his eye for goal and his ability in and around the box,but he is the most frustrating player i have seen for years as time and time again good moves break down because he loses the ball or cant pass to save his life.
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:47 pm

Mick. He's naturally left footed mate. Not right footed.

But seems to have equal abiltiy with both feet. Also he scored the goal against Birmingham with his left foot.

That lads a cracking player. Yes he gives the ball away, mainly due to taking to long to make decision.

I remember the first game at anfield against Norwich. He scored, could have had two goals, was a bit selfish though and him and Gerrard linked superbly that day.

Thats what he's all about. Gerrard was firing passes into him he was throwing a dummy then flicking it into the on rushing Gerrards path. His movement and link up play is unbelievabley clever and he has the ability to play one and two touch with devastating effect.

The reason he loses the ball is down to his decision making. He's now holding the ball better when his first choice of pass isn't on. However, when his first choice isn't on, he sometimes takes long to release the ball and gets caught in possession because he's waited to long and his options are closed down.

Theres two types of decision making. Speed of the decision *(the quicker you give the ball to a man in space the more time they have to work with the ball *Alonso's strength and thats we need Joaquin*) and the correct one. Luis Garcia at times can lack them both, at others he can get them spot on. Frustrating player, but certainly worth the frustration.
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Postby Chelsea forever. » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:50 pm

Garcia is a superb player and his talent cannot be unnoticed.

All players have their strengths and weaknesses. Garcia's weakness is his inability to keep possession of the ball - he misplaces a few passes and loses the ball often. The former might be down to lack of form and confidence while the latter is down to the physical nature of the English game.

However, his strengths are immense and cancel out his weaknesses. He has an eye for goal, he has an eye for a pass and his ability to read an attack is quite admirable. He is capable of creating an opportunity out of little or nothing, he is quick with his turns and tricky with his movement. He can fake a pass and fox the opponent in other ways. He isnt shy of trying the spectacular and more often than not does he pull it off.

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IMO Garcia's best position would be just behind the 2 strikers. Here the problem of him losing the ball would be less as he would play central and his options would be limited - as in he would not find himself on the right with options on weather he should pass it back, across, up etc. | he would have 2 players to pass it to and would have the defense backing off | his strengths would be highlighted and his eye for goal would come into play

One reason why is has been poor this season is because of the new approach with Crouch, it has changed play entirely and thats why a lot of players have not been able to settle in. Crouch upfront means a total direct approach to him and understandably Garcia isnt used to this as it was not the case last season and defo wasn’t the case at Barcelona.

Either he has to be given time to settle in, played just behind Crouch (and i mean centrally in a 4-4-garcia-crouch and not on the side in a 4-3-2-1) or the formation has to be switched around to accommodate him and use him to his potential. In all honesty i think the way Rafa wants to use Crouch can be done with a 4-4-2 and would be more effective as he would have players around him who would benefit from the knockdowns - but there is only one reason why he isnt playing this formation and its Defense.

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Postby drummerphil » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:51 pm

nobody wants your opinion :censored: wipe so :censored: off eh
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Postby Judge » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:12 pm

:D i didnt know you were that agressive phil :D
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Postby The_Rock » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:20 pm

Garcia for me is somewhat a wildcard.....a maverick (ie...u saw top gun  :p ). He can get us a goal from nothing.

But if he continues losing the ball 7 times out of 10, whatever he brings to the table is "wiped out".....
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