Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dalglish** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:14 am

United and Arsenal Stu IMO but I've read this thread and the evaluations of Hyppia vary wildly when in reality he probably lies somewhere in between. I do agree with you though that Hyppia is the better of Carragher at centre back.

Fans sometimes misjudge fervour for ability and as much as I love Carragher and his evident passion and determination for the club we can also overlook the quiter players like Hyppia because he isn't as animated.

However defensively we are likely to concede too often and I would like to see something done in this area at LFC that shows a little more inclination than signing Josemi (The Player with the WORST disciplinary record in the Prem) and Pelagreno who is nearing the emnd of an illustrious career.....

Walk on ...

by **Santa** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:00 am

stu_the_red wrote:Rafa isn't ok. He's not done anything special yet...
...If you're making a point be fair.

Is it fair then to compare Rafa's first 9 months with Houllier on his 6th year?

HOULLIER ISN'T THE ****** ISSUE!!!

You made him an issue with your statement..."alot of people said how bad Houllier was for finishing fourth, well what if Rafa finishes fifth?"

However, I fully agree with your observation on certain players attitute and also about Sami...IMO still a good player and put in more good games than bad! A bit slow maybe but his reading of the game is still very very good. Jamie I liked his heart and attitute but in terms of footballing ability, he's still not up there with Sami, at least not yet. That being said, I think it's time we get a replacement for Sami and start bedding him in with Carra. Sami won't last for another full season unless we get him a fresh pair of legs.

Josemi (The Player with the WORST disciplinary record in the Prem)

F*cking hell, don't deny Diouf his well deserved title :angry:

by **kenco** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:34 am

Eazy-E wrote:****** off Kenco. Who are you to judge him.

i'm not judging them just stating that in all probability neither will be at anfield next season!!!!!!!!!!!

by **Alonso_Rulz** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:07 am

i got to say.. only ppl with the footballing knowledge will know that , hyypia is a class in his own right, to me, hyypia carracgher partnership is potentially a great one.. carra has the pace, hyypia has the heading ability but lack speed.. i think the way we conceded soft goals is due to the goalie area.

by **Starbridge42** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:25 am

carra has the pace? i can think of plenty of centre backs quicker than him.

Speed is wat we lack in defence.

by **rosa** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:17 pm

It's true that carra is neither quick nor aerially dominant but neither were Hansen or Thompson!! Ok, they were better footballers but when it comes to pure defending, (tackling everything - dog of war, never say die spirit, shouting at anything that doesn't seem willing to do everything for the good of ,pool carra is as good as anyone in the reds history!

We cannot judge Rafa now, not even next season. I didn't do that to Houllier nor evans until their third season. it's just pointless. the only managers that get instant success are those that have massive funds or inherit a team waiting for greatness and just need tweeking a bit.

Modern football need funds and we are all still waiting to see what the board are going to do to get some serious investment. Houllier had over a hundred million to spend at his time there. We need to give Rafa the same as good players cost between 10-20 million in the current transfer market.
I'd like to see the worlds best at anfield in the future. How do we afford it when the worlds best cost up to 50million!!!!!
We don't! We have to be clever and I doubt that there's many more clever than Rafa. Just tgive him time to get the team right, especially for away games.

by **mrcool2003** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:24 pm

LFCFan4Life wrote:Why are we comparing Houllier's fifth season with Rafa's first?

Houllier had five years, in that amount of time his best was not good enough for this club, he got us the UEFA Cup, FA Cup, Carling Cup,etc.. however he could not lead us to our 19th title nor could he lead us to our 5th CL title.

90% of our squad are Houllier's players. The only players that have not been injured are Carragher and Riise which sums up our injury crisis this year, which in fact is the worst in England and in Europe.

How was Shankly's first season? If I remember correctly there was an article written by P.T. from RAWK which was about Shankly's first season which was not great however the following seasons have made a long lasting impact on the club.

I did not expect Rafa to bring us into the top three in his first season because the squad for the most part did not change, our key players are either out for the season or have been struggling with injuries all season long. The squad has picked it self for the most part and Rafa has done well as far as working with what he has.

exactly well said m8

take note stu

yu're comparing houlliers 5th season with rb's first, so in actual fact u're twisting it to justify your love of houllier

anyway as far as i remember, houllier finished 7th or 8th in his first season and spent 100 million or so and finished 2nd thats the best position, rb wil probaly not see that much money

another point, if the liverpool board had of appointed the right manager in the first place which definitely shouldnt of been houllier, we wouldnt have no money and a pile of rubbish players that houllier bought

by **Iceman69** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:13 am

Alonso_Rulz wrote:i got to say.. only ppl with the footballing knowledge will know that , hyypia is a class in his own right, to me, hyypia carracgher partnership is potentially a great one.. carra has the pace, hyypia has the heading ability but lack speed.. i think the way we conceded soft goals is due to the goalie area.

I think hypia is one of the key LFC players.

Although slow sometimes, Sami can always catch up by pulling the odd shirt or two.

He aint the quickest, but his ability to tackle and read the game has to be respected.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:50 pm

rb wil probaly not see that much money

Really?

That right mrcool? (your name still makes me laugh)

We, do the maths...

£10.7m Xabi Alonso
£6.7m Fernando Morientes
£6m Luis Garcia
£2m Josemi (waste of money)
£2m (suposedly) Antonio Nunez
£14m Djirbril Cisse (which i believe he had the power to cancel).

Without the Cisse signing and not including the suposed £2m value of Nunez thats £25.4m in one season. So he's well on course.

Out of those only 2 have shown so far they are worth the money but as yet haven't even started to repay the club.

Like i said dipsh!t, this isn't a Houllier thread.

by **banana** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:12 pm

stu_the_red wrote:
rb wil probaly not see that much money

Really?

That right mrcool? (your name still makes me laugh)

We, do the maths...

£10.7m Xabi Alonso
£6.7m Fernando Morientes
£6m Luis Garcia
£2m Josemi (waste of money)
£2m (suposedly) Antonio Nunez
£14m Djirbril Cisse (which i believe he had the power to cancel).

Without the Cisse signing and not including the suposed £2m value of Nunez thats £25.4m in one season. So he's well on course.

Out of those only 2 have shown so far they are worth the money but as yet haven't even started to repay the club.

Like i said dipsh!t, this isn't a Houllier thread.

You never stop your pathetic lies boy?

Houllier's financial impact 2004/2005:

Cisse £ 14 mill.
Golden parachute: £ 10,7 mill
Equals: approx MINUS £ 25 million

Benitez:

IN
Garcia: £ 6 mill
Alonso: £ 10 mill
Pelle: 0
Nunez: 0
Morientes: £ 6 mill
Josemi: £ 2 mill
Equals: £ 24 mill

OUT:
Heskey: £ 6,5 mill
Owen: £ 8 mill
Murphy: £ 2,5 mill
Equals: £ 17 mill

Net transfer Benitez: £ 7 mill

In adition he has saved wages from Houllier's transfer failures:
Diouf, Henchoz, Diao, Cheyrou, Vignal, Diarra, Le Tallec

That is easily £ 7 million saved in wages.

Which leaves Benitez at a net financial cost from transfer and loans of about ZERO

ZERO
ZERO
ZERO

Get it kid?

by **JBG** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:49 pm

banana wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
rb wil probaly not see that much money

Really?

That right mrcool? (your name still makes me laugh)

We, do the maths...

£10.7m Xabi Alonso
£6.7m Fernando Morientes
£6m Luis Garcia
£2m Josemi (waste of money)
£2m (suposedly) Antonio Nunez
£14m Djirbril Cisse (which i believe he had the power to cancel).

Without the Cisse signing and not including the suposed £2m value of Nunez thats £25.4m in one season. So he's well on course.

Out of those only 2 have shown so far they are worth the money but as yet haven't even started to repay the club.

Like i said dipsh!t, this isn't a Houllier thread.

You never stop your pathetic lies boy?

Houllier's financial impact 2004/2005:

Cisse £ 14 mill.
Golden parachute: £ 10,7 mill
Equals: approx MINUS £ 25 million

Benitez:

IN
Garcia: £ 6 mill
Alonso: £ 10 mill
Pelle: 0
Nunez: 0
Morientes: £ 6 mill
Josemi: £ 2 mill
Equals: £ 24 mill

OUT:
Heskey: £ 6,5 mill
Owen: £ 8 mill
Murphy: £ 2,5 mill
Equals: £ 17 mill

Net transfer Benitez: £ 7 mill

In adition he has saved wages from Houllier's transfer failures:
Diouf, Henchoz, Diao, Cheyrou, Vignal, Diarra, Le Tallec

That is easily £ 7 million saved in wages.

Which leaves Benitez at a net financial cost from transfer and loans of about ZERO

ZERO
ZERO
ZERO

Get it kid?

The figures used by both Stu and Banana are hugely simplistic.

Nunez had a supposed transfer value of £5million in the Owen deal. However, this is an illusory figure and was a PR exercise to placate Liverpool fans and certain shareholders.

The true value of signing a player is not reflected in his transfer but also in his wages and bonuses. Chelsea signed Winston Bogarde for "nothing" but he earned almost £50,000 a week for the 3 or 4 years he was there, playing about a half dozen times.

Emile Heskey is on less money at Birmingham than he was at Liverpool and Liverpool gave him a golden handshake when he left, so only part of his £6.5million went into the Anfield coffers.

By the same token, the club has saved a lot of money from selling Owen (in terms of wages and also in terms of prospective wages the club were prepared to offer Owen had he signed a new contract). Naturally this is a false economy if the loss of Owen's playing contribution means we miss out on the Champions League next year.

Liverpool are contributing to the wages of pretty much all of its players sent on loan.

Hyppia is past it. I disagree that he is still a better defender than Carragher.

Its still too early to judge all of Benitez's transfer dealings: for Stu to do so is disengenous as he was on this forum last year lambasting people for not having patience with Gerard Houllier. So far Josemi, Nunez and Garcia have disapointed, yes, but I wouldn't say any of them are disasters and all have contributed something positive. Garcia is frustrating but he still has delivered 8 goals for us so far.

As for Cisse, where is Stu getting his source on Benitez being able to rescind the deal? Houllier, Parry and Benitez himself all have said that the Cisse deal was done and dusted before Rafa arrived at Liverpool.

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:52 pm

John Barnes' Granny wrote:Liverpool are contributing to the wages of pretty much all of its players sent on loan.

that's one of the most frustrating things for me. i read somewhere before christmas that we are still subsidising our loaned players' wages to the sum of £80,000 a week. :angry:

by **Dalglish** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:21 am

stmichael wrote:
John Barnes' Granny wrote:Liverpool are contributing to the wages of pretty much all of its players sent on loan.

that's one of the most frustrating things for me. i read somewhere before christmas that we are still subsidising our loaned players' wages to the sum of £80,000 a week.

Sadly thats the rules on Loan players St Michael and the best way to put unwanted players in the shop window without having to play them yourself is send them on loan in the hope they will impress (aka Diouff) and become marketable when the transfer window opens .....

by **Liverpool 4 EVA** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:36 am

banana wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:
rb wil probaly not see that much money

Really?

That right mrcool? (your name still makes me laugh)

We, do the maths...

£10.7m Xabi Alonso
£6.7m Fernando Morientes
£6m Luis Garcia
£2m Josemi (waste of money)
£2m (suposedly) Antonio Nunez
£14m Djirbril Cisse (which i believe he had the power to cancel).

Without the Cisse signing and not including the suposed £2m value of Nunez thats £25.4m in one season. So he's well on course.

Out of those only 2 have shown so far they are worth the money but as yet haven't even started to repay the club.

Like i said dipsh!t, this isn't a Houllier thread.

You never stop your pathetic lies boy?

Houllier's financial impact 2004/2005:

Cisse £ 14 mill.
Golden parachute: £ 10,7 mill
Equals: approx MINUS £ 25 million

Benitez:

IN
Garcia: £ 6 mill
Alonso: £ 10 mill
Pelle: 0
Nunez: 0
Morientes: £ 6 mill
Josemi: £ 2 mill
Equals: £ 24 mill

OUT:
Heskey: £ 6,5 mill
Owen: £ 8 mill
Murphy: £ 2,5 mill
Equals: £ 17 mill

Net transfer Benitez: £ 7 mill

In adition he has saved wages from Houllier's transfer failures:
Diouf, Henchoz, Diao, Cheyrou, Vignal, Diarra, Le Tallec

That is easily £ 7 million saved in wages.

Which leaves Benitez at a net financial cost from transfer and loans of about ZERO

ZERO
ZERO
ZERO

Get it kid?

Good post mate

Agree with you entirely Banana.

by **mrcool2003** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:11 am

stu_the_red wrote:
rb wil probaly not see that much money

Really?

That right mrcool? (your name still makes me laugh)

We, do the maths...

£10.7m Xabi Alonso
£6.7m Fernando Morientes
£6m Luis Garcia
£2m Josemi (waste of money)
£2m (suposedly) Antonio Nunez
£14m Djirbril Cisse (which i believe he had the power to cancel).

Without the Cisse signing and not including the suposed £2m value of Nunez thats £25.4m in one season. So he's well on course.

Out of those only 2 have shown so far they are worth the money but as yet haven't even started to repay the club.

Like i said dipsh!t, this isn't a Houllier thread.

its not about houllier

umm u were the one who brought his name up noone else so dipshit yourself and ur arguement is flawed cause u cant compare first season with someones last season so shove that somewhere

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