What have we learnt this season?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:21 pm

Firstly: attitude.

Certain players need to buck up or get lost. Kewell's attitude since he signed has been a disgrace. He's got alot of ability but rarely shows it. I don't know weather its confidence or lazyness, but something has to change, he's got 11 got the remaing games, he's got to play in most and play well when he plays. If not, he's got to go. Steven Gerrard, he plays when he feels like it. When he plays well, he's immense. Truely world class. But thats not often enough. 3 out of every 10 games is not good enough and going missing in big matches is also not good enough for a player of his "calibre". His attitude MUST change for the good of this club if he stays, take a note from Roy Keane's book Steven, he was well ****** off at losing to Milan. Thats the attitude to have, don't dare question your team mates or manager if you aren't doing it yourself.

The right attitude and mentallity is a massive weapon. Look at the effect it had on Everton after selling Rooney, their team spirit is immense, they haven't got the best players in the league, maybe a top 10 side in terms of ability, but there attitude has been immense this season. They've played out of there skin and it shows in the current league table. Chelsea are another example. They have the quality, probably no more than Arsenal or Man Utd in truth, but the fact they believe they are the best and play like they are unbeatable makes them what they are. They truely believe they are as good as people say, which kind of makes them that good.

Mourinho drills it into these players that they're that damn good that they start to believe it, it boosts the confidence so much and we all know what confidence does to players. For me this cockyness about Mourinho installs confidence in his players, imagine someone that confident who's won what he's won already telling you he believes in you, you're going to listen. You'd be a fool not to.

Secondly: Players

All this, players need time to settle nonsense is exactly that. You can spot class and ability a mile off. Yes tey need time to show there best, but if they don't show something straight away within two games, the chances are they never will. With Alonso and Morientes and even Garcia you could see there was quality there from the second they pulled on the shirt. Morientes brain and awareness, Alonso's passing acuracy and ability to control the pace of a game and Luis Garcia's ability to play at a high tempo with one touch passing. They all stood out straight away. Whereas Nunez and Josemi have shown.... well, i won't say nothing. But very little to suggest they are quality players.

We have in our squad maybe 5 players who are good enough and another 8 or 9 that are good enough squad players.We must strengthen this summer, but we have to bring in class, even if its only two players, they MUST be good enough to walk into the first team and improve it.

Players such as Kewell, Dudek, Traore, Baros, Smicer, Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou and Diarra i think have had there chance and failed to take it. They aren't going to win us league titles and Europian Cups. Baros has his plus points, but we have better players in Morientes, Cisse and Pongolle and backup in Le Tallec and Mellor and with him earning as much as he does and having a good sell on value i'd be willing to let him go for around the £8m mark.

We all know we need two quality wingers. So that should be the priority. They are out there, they may cost alot of money but they're out there. The ones that spring to my mind are:

Pennant
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Joseba Exterrberria
Stewart Downing
Damien Duff (maybe not but you never know)
Vicente (expensive but worth it)
Joaquin (expensive but worth it)

All of which in my mind would improve our team. I'd like to see a big name like Joaquin or Vicente brought in and a lesser player, Downing or Pennant maybe. We have to improve and we have to get the right balance aswell. Which is something we don't have.

This whole Gerrard saga is annoying me aswell. He should come out and speak his mind, if he goes, £30m and Scott Parker would be great business. If he wants to stay, he should come out and say there is no way he's leaving.

Third: The grass isn't always greener!

Lots of people here called for Houllier's head. We are no better off than we were last year. The gap to the top is still massive, we've lost the best player to pull on the shirt in the last 15 years and we now currently 5th. I understand Rafa is building, he has my support, but alot of people said how bad Houllier was for finishing fourth, well what if Rafa finishes fifth?

My point is, these people don't learn. The new scape goat seems to be a certain centre half who plays with his heart on his sleeve and gives his all everytime he plays. People forget what happened before he was here. Well i'll tell you what, watch the games before we signed him, we got an ariel bombardment and we simply fell to bits at the back with high balls and crosses. Guess who our other centre half was at the time... JAMIE CARRAGHER!!! I for one DO NOT want to go back to this. Carragher for all his qualities isn't and never will be a dominated and commanding centre half who wins 95% of his headers and can control players like Ferguson, Dublin, Shearer, etc etc. These players don't cause us that many problems because we have Sami. When do we ever conceed from a corner where its Hyypia who loses his man? NEVER! How many times is it Hyypia who wins the header from a corner we conceed? Who else apart from Morientes is now going to score goals from set peices? All teams have to worry about this year is Sami, no wonder he's been quiet. Now we have Morientes and Hyypia who both need to be watched. Also, how many times does Sami win headers of goal kicks, long balls, deep free kicks? He knows when to attack the ball, unlike Carragher, he NEVER lets the ball bounce and he very rarely mis judges a header.

Yes we need more pace, but we need a player who has the positional sense, heading ability, ability to read, intercept, dominate and control a backline like Hyypia does before we consider replacing him.

If anything he needs a partner in there with him. I don't care what anyone says, he's still a better player with more ability than Carragher, Carragher form wise has been superb, but form doesn't make you a great player. A player like Woodgate would be immense, along side Sami. With Riise, Finnan and Carragher around those two we'd have one hell of a defence.

Fourth: Losing your best player doesn't necessarily weaken your team

Self explanitory. :;):
115-1073096938
 

Postby Judge » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:27 pm

we have learnt LFC are capable of getting into the quarter finals of the CL.

when i said some time ago we would do this, i was blasted by unintelligent folk. who's laughing now!!
Image
User avatar
Judge
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 20477
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:21 am

Postby stmichael » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:11 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Lots of people here called for Houllier's head. We are no better off than we were last year. The gap to the top is still massive, we've lost the best player to pull on the shirt in the last 15 years and we now currently 5th. I understand Rafa is building, he has my support, but alot of people said how bad Houllier was for finishing fourth, well what if Rafa finishes fifth?

stu, once again you make some good points but then blow it all by coming out with tripe like this.

not in a better position than this time last year? ???

in the words of lloyd grossman, LETS LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE.

1) this time last year we couldn't even sell out the ground on saturday's for league games, due to the dull, negative style of our football. we have attracted world class players such as alonso and morientes. last year we had murphy and heskey.

2) as much as houllier did for the club, we have a manager now who's achievements blow anything houllier has done out of the water. we also don't get cr@p excuses week in week out.

3) ok we are still several points from the league leaders, but in all fairness, they spent £80m in the summer. we have also had the most severe bout of injuries since the civil war.

4) we reached a cup final. ok we let ourselves down when we got there but last season we got nowhere near a final. and at least rafa has given the youngsters some first team experience. in a sense he's done more for the academy in six months than houllier did in 5 years.

5) we are in the champions league quarter finals. last season we were in the process of getting dumped out of the uefa cup by marseille.

rafa is doing a great job if you ask me! :cool:
User avatar
stmichael
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 22644
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:06 pm
Location: Middlesbrough

Postby Liverpool 4 EVA » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:26 pm

stmichael wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Lots of people here called for Houllier's head. We are no better off than we were last year. The gap to the top is still massive, we've lost the best player to pull on the shirt in the last 15 years and we now currently 5th. I understand Rafa is building, he has my support, but alot of people said how bad Houllier was for finishing fourth, well what if Rafa finishes fifth?

stu, once again you make some good points but then blow it all by coming out with tripe like this.

not in a better position than this time last year? ???

in the words of lloyd grossman, LETS LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE.

1) this time last year we couldn't even sell out the ground on saturday's for league games, due to the dull, negative style of our football. we have attracted world class players such as alonso and morientes. last year we had murphy and heskey.

2) as much as houllier did for the club, we have a manager now who's achievements blow anything houllier has done out of the water. we also don't get cr@p excuses week in week out.

3) ok we are still several points from the league leaders, but in all fairness, they spent £80m in the summer. we have also had the most severe bout of injuries since the civil war.

4) we reached a cup final. ok we let ourselves down when we got there but last season we got nowhere near a final. and at least rafa has given the youngsters some first team experience. in a sense he's done more for the academy in six months than houllier did in 5 years.

5) we are in the champions league quarter finals. last season we were in the process of getting dumped out of the uefa cup by marseille.

rafa is doing a great job if you ask me! :cool:

SPOT ON MICHAEL - GREAT POST

And on top of all of that - the GREAT RAFA can only be judged when he has the full team at his disposal.

EVERYTHING has gone against him this season.
Drummerphil - our thoughts are with you
Liverpool 4 EVA
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:29 am

Postby MilitiaRusher » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:30 pm

In addition, I think the players that you chose for the Priority list is a bit too unrealistic. We would NEVER get Damien Duff and would probably get no one on that list if we do not end up with CL football next year. The top 3 (Ar$e-nal, Chel$ki, Manure) teams would probably get the head start in attracting these quality players due to comfirmed CL propect.

To be fair, there were one off games last year that contained better performances than the same respective fixture this year. Remember playing Birmingham last year in St. Andrews? We won with a comfortable margin of 3-0 and now what happens this year? a 2-0 lost. not quite an immense improvement. Then again, these are just one off games and there are indeed more games that we played well this year than the respective fixture last year. Would anyone want to do some research to clarify that?

EDIT: 6) We could have achieved a much better result in some of the games (New years day against Chelsea) if not for poor refereeing decisions.
Image
Image
User avatar
MilitiaRusher
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:26 pm

Postby Ciggy » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:31 pm

stmichael wrote:
stu_the_red wrote:Lots of people here called for Houllier's head. We are no better off than we were last year. The gap to the top is still massive, we've lost the best player to pull on the shirt in the last 15 years and we now currently 5th. I understand Rafa is building, he has my support, but alot of people said how bad Houllier was for finishing fourth, well what if Rafa finishes fifth?

stu, once again you make some good points but then blow it all by coming out with tripe like this.

not in a better position than this time last year? ???

in the words of lloyd grossman, LETS LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE.

1) this time last year we couldn't even sell out the ground on saturday's for league games, due to the dull, negative style of our football. we have attracted world class players such as alonso and morientes. last year we had murphy and heskey.

2) as much as houllier did for the club, we have a manager now who's achievements blow anything houllier has done out of the water. we also don't get cr@p excuses week in week out.

3) ok we are still several points from the league leaders, but in all fairness, they spent £80m in the summer. we have also had the most severe bout of injuries since the civil war.

4) we reached a cup final. ok we let ourselves down when we got there but last season we got nowhere near a final. and at least rafa has given the youngsters some first team experience. in a sense he's done more for the academy in six months than houllier did in 5 years.

5) we are in the champions league quarter finals. last season we were in the process of getting dumped out of the uefa cup by marseille.

rafa is doing a great job if you ask me! :cool:

Great stuff San Mig spot on mate :cool:
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011

REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
User avatar
Ciggy
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 26826
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:36 pm

Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:32 pm

3) ok we are still several points from the league leaders, but in all fairness, they spent £80m in the summer. we have also had the most severe bout of injuries since the civil war.


Where where you last season?

I'm sorry but last seasons injury list was probably as bad if not worse.

Rafa isn't ok. He's not done anything special yet. He's shown potential and i believe we have the right man, but my point is the facts clearly say he's done no better than Houllier did at Houllier's worst so far. Cut the ******, cut the excuses, i've no doubt long term he'll exceed everything Houllier done, but i am a realist and being real, the situation is VERY SIMILAR to the one we had last year.

You go on about Heskey and Murphy yet fail to mention the fact we lost Owen.

Don't compare our worst players with out best, its rediculous.

If you're making a point be fair.
115-1073096938
 

Postby kenco » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:37 pm

stu, you say we are no better off than last season,but lets not forget houllier had a five year plan.and still didn't deliver,benitez is trying to manage with the players houllier bought, and you have already stated many of them were not good enough,some were a total waste of money, and you know that! i would still rather watch i liverpool team trying to play attacking football like we have seen in some games this year than watch the negative sterile sh*t houllier served up.we have to give benitez a chance and only judge him when hes allowed to build his on squad,if he truly ever will be able to,after the money houllier wasted on cr*p,its because of your icon we are in the state we are in at the moment. benitez's hands are tied untill we get some massive investment. you have not been proved right that houlliers depature was a mistake,indeed you have been proved to be utterly wrong, look at the state that t*sser left this great club in,i would have got more fun sticking knitting neddles through my testicles than wacthing a team managed by houllier try to play football.   :p :p
"This club exists to win trophies"...rafa benitez.
User avatar
kenco
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:12 pm

Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:37 pm

Militiar...

Vicente, Exterbarria and Joaquin maybe not be unrealistic. Think about it, imagine if you were a top class player in your country, the best manager in the league moved aboard and took one of the best midfielders and strikers in the league with him, don't you think you'd consider joining your country men? I know if i would!!

Also Vicente worked under Benitez before. I'm not saying we'd definately get them, but to totally dismiss it under the circumstances is silly.
115-1073096938
 

Postby MilitiaRusher » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:38 pm

to be honest, stu, your quite a GH supporter are you?
Image
Image
User avatar
MilitiaRusher
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:26 pm

Postby stmichael » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:39 pm

kenco wrote:i would have got more fun sticking knitting needles through my testicles than wacthing a team managed by houllier try to play football.   :p :p

:oh:  :oh:  :D
User avatar
stmichael
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 22644
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:06 pm
Location: Middlesbrough

Postby Ciggy » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:55 pm

Houllier got us the UEFA cup lets not forget that and we won quite a few tropheys, but why is he still out of a job if hes that good  ???
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011

REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
User avatar
Ciggy
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 26826
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:36 pm

Postby 115-1073096938 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:58 pm

For ****** sake Houllier CLEARLY isn't the issue in that post.

Houllier has practically ****** all to do with the whole post. LEAVE THE MAN ALONE FOR GODS SAKE!!!

Am absoloutely sick to death of so called fans and supporters slating the man even now. He was an excellent manager but not excellent enough in the end and he cocked it up. Its now someone elses turn, get back on topic for ****** sake.

Thanks for changing the subject in my thread St Michael, much appriciated. If you want to discuss Houllier create a ****** thread about him, i'm sick of going over this.

HOULLIER ISN'T THE ****** ISSUE!!!

some people are just plain bloody stupid!
Last edited by 115-1073096938 on Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
115-1073096938
 

Postby kenco » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:02 pm

he is the issue stu!! its still his team we are talking about, and so are you!!!!!!!!!!! :p
"This club exists to win trophies"...rafa benitez.
User avatar
kenco
>> LFC Elite Member <<
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:12 pm

Postby banana » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:21 pm

Fair enough Stu. Some sensible stuff, some sh!t.

Three facts:

1. Houllier was a disaster financially. We have wasted more money than any other club the last 5 years. Some clubs have spent more, yes, but they have spent it on good players with a market value. We have spent it on garbage with no resale value in the market.

2. Houllier ruined our reputation of playing attractive football. We were drop dead boring, and only the die hard LFC fans were able to watch LFC play without falling asleep.

3. Houllier ruined the academy. Befor he arrived the academy producee some good players like Gerrard, Owen, Fowler, Carra etc. After he arrived he quickly squeezed out two of our best young prospects in D. Thompson and S. Wright and almost succeeded in ending Warnock's LFC career.

And you stand up to defend Hyypia. I don't know why. Yes he is good in the air and an asset to us on set pieces. But this is not enough. Look at all the other premiership teams. They all have players with similar abilities in the air, but most of them also know how to pass the ball and they all have more pace than Sami.

Fact is Sami is one of the poorest defenders in the league. He can't run, he can't  move, he can't pass. Being good in the air should not be enough to play for LFC.

Even teams like Soton have alternatives better than Hyypia, and so should we.
If football is banned in heaven. I'd rather go to hell.
User avatar
banana
LFC Super Member
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:46 pm

Next

Return to Liverpool FC - General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 56 guests

  • Advertisement
ShopTill-e