Liverpool FC Forum

by **The_Rock** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:51 pm

What he says is what lynds & AB say here....rafa needs more time.

I am willing to give rafa time, but when the players don't perform i get pi$$ed..

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=788276

Why Shankly should have been sacked in 1961

Posted by Paul Tomkins on Today at 02:02:39 PM

It may surprise some people to be reminded of this, but Bill Shankly's first two seasons at Liverpool (then a sleeping giant) were not an outrageous success; he steadied a sinking ship that was taking in great gulps of water in the middle of the old Second Division, but he didn't have that patched-up ship sailing hard and fast for a good couple of years. What the ****** was he playing at?

Clearly –– after two consecutive third-placed finishes –– he was taking the club nowhere. I mean, this was the Second Division! Not even the top league, for Chrissakes! Why should Liverpool fans have been expected to put up with such mediocrity?

Thank God the internet and radio phone-ins didn't exist back then, eh? Poor performances were witnessed by the 50-odd thousand present; not millions across the globe. Liverpool fans grew to become famed for their patience. Much has changed in the game since then, but it's proof that even the very greatest managers can't wave a magic wand, and cure all the team's ills.

In fact, it seems to be many of the older fans (who perhaps should know better) who are losing patience quickest with Rafael Benitez; in no small part down to the glory days that arrived later in Shankly's reign, and carried on for another twenty-plus years. Now, as when Shanks arrived, we are a sleeping giant; only this time we're slumbering in fifth place in the top division. Not such a disaster, given we have no rightful place at the summit; we have to earn it all over again. Earning things in life takes time; unless you prefer to steal.

The natives and non-natives are restless, and on the warpath. Is it me, or are fans getting less and less patient by the season? There seems to be residue of hostility for Gerard Houllier carried over into the reign of Rafael Benitez. The frustration of last year is spilling over into this.

It's easy to rant and moan and vent spleen (and we all need to do it from time to time), but it's harder to think rationally and actually look at what's going on.

It's not about accepting mediocrity, or admitting that 4th place is the ultimate goal –– as no Liverpool fan wants to think of eternally chasing 4th in the table. It's about accepting that the route to greatness has no short cuts. Rome wasn't built in a day; Milton Keynes most probably was.

I am not saying Benitez is the new Shankly; no-one can replicate that great, great man, and such comparisons help no-one. But Benitez –– only seven months ago –– reproduced Shankly's greatest season: winning a major league title at the same time as the Uefa Cup. I am merely saying that even the greats take time to get everything the way they want it.

It's hard to think of a new manager at a struggling big club (and struggling is the key) who has made an instant impact. Any suggestions? Alex Ferguson (I cannot bring myself to use the 'Sir') had a torrid first six years (and even in their Treble season of 1999, he remarked how they didn't have one serious injury –– a nod to the good luck they had on that front; how can someone with serious injuries into double-figures be expected to succeed first time out?). Gerard Houllier's first two seasons were pretty dire; only the third saw us hit the heights of the Treble; his problem was that he didn't have the flexibility to build a long-term plan on top of that, but it was still a very special season by recent standards.

Arsene Wenger made next-to-no difference in his first season at Highbury; in his second he won the league. I doubt Benitez will achieve that next year, but I do expect us to be in a far better position.

Despite this grim week, we're still in two cups (with one foot placed –– albeit tentatively, at the time of writing –– in a final), and the teams around us in the league have (thankfully) been equally poor of late. There's still plenty left to fight for.

Tough on new boys

It's similarly difficult for the new players. Benitez is right to bring to mind the case of Robert Pires; Thierry Henry is often mentioned, too, as someone who struggled in the first half of his debut English season. (Henry clicked into gear in the winter, while Pires took until Easter to first impress).

While players like Nunez, Josemi and Luis Garcia may (obviously) never come close to emulating those two great Arsenal players, that is not the point of the comparison; the point is that even Footballers of the Year (in the making, as they then were) –– experienced internationals who had played in World Cup and European Championship-winning sides –– could look like absolute turkeys when they first arrived here. It doesn't mean every hapless overseas player will turn into some graceful goalscoring machine or creative midfielder (El Hadji Diouf and Bruno Cheyrou certainly never); it does mean that if even the best can struggle, than merely decent or very good players cannot be exempted from the same problems. If Arsenal had quickly written-off Henry and Pires, they'd never have won the double in 2002.

Getting back to Liverpool, last season Steve Finnan was widely criticized for being rather useless. He spoke English (indeed, was English, whatever his international record suggests), and had spent the last handful of years in the Premiership –– he was even voted into the Team of the Season while at Fulham, as the best right back in the country. This season, he seems settled into his new environment, and while not quite making the right-back spot his own, he had (until injury) shown what a fine player he was. So if he can struggle in his first season at Liverpool, with all he had going for him, why can't others be excused struggling? It takes time to settle; if you don't allow players that time, you run the risk of disposing of people too quickly, and merely bringing in another new face who'll go through the same tribulations. Some players settle quickly (such as Alonso). Others don't.

I'll admit I was crying out for Josemi to be dropped before injury struck. He was proving a liability. That didn't mean I felt he wasn't good enough for Liverpool; just that he wasn't playing well enough for Liverpool. If you ditched every player who struggled initially, you'd be buying and selling 30 players a season, trying them out like an American teenage princess in a Rodeo Drive store, trying on everything in the shop before going mental with Daddy's credit card. As a manager you have to balance out the act of showing faith in the player (as you know his capabilities, and trust him if you've purchased him) or dropping him and potentially destroying his confidence. It's a tough call.

With Josemi it had reached the point where the lad needed withdrawing, to save the team, and to save himself. But is he a bad player? Is he a bad signing? It's too early to tell. Same with Nunez –– anything he does well is ignored, every mistake highlighted.

Luis Garcia has joined Josemi in starting brightly before fading miserably, and is becoming the object of much ire. He is clearly a fine talent, and his early displays were scintillating; you could see why we paid the money –– he showed how good he can be; but flair players are confidence players, and his has dipped dramatically. He works hard, he makes a surprising amount of tackles, but he is easily shrugged off the ball, and his incessant clever flicks have turned into infuriating concessions of possession.

He is not one to be written off; but perhaps a spell on the sidelines is due (maybe he would have already had one, if Benitez had a full squad to choose from). His future may lie as the different option on the bench, to be unleashed if other methods are failing. He has shown he can score goals, but he is an off-the-cuff maverick who has lost his way. Whatever happens, he has already scored as many league goals as El Hadji Diouf and Bruno Cheyrou managed between them in their entire Liverpool careers.

Transition

This is a transitional season. There is no other way to look at it. (If this isn't a transitional season, someone please tell me what is? –– could much more have changed at the club in the last six months?). I have maintained after every great win under Benitez's direction that there would be further dips into despondency. Consistency is always the hardest thing to find in an inconsistent situation. Ups and downs; that's how first seasons tend to go.

I feel a lot of sympathy with Rafa Benitez at this moment in time –– things just aren't going his way, and those who expected Valencia-like success within months are starting to get disillusioned (the calls for his head have already been heard). He's made mistakes, and admitted as much himself. It's a group learning process, for all involved. The manager is having such a torrid time with injuries, and now nearly all of his signings are being questioned; some understandably (if a little impatiently); others rather unfairly.

Look at what has backfired for Rafa this week. The team that was sent out against Burnley let him down; there were four full internationals in our team, and a whole host of U21 internationals who we've been hearing about 'breaking through' for the last few years. The same kind of line-up had done brilliantly at Millwall and Tottenham, and on paper this was an easier game. One totally inexcusable mistake cost us the game (as a manager, how do you legislate for such stupidity?), and while we were very poor, the players –– including a selection of young Brits, who should have been hungry for the chance –– failed to show either the requisite amount of fight or composure. It was not disrespecting the cup, but it was not the club's finest hour in the competition, either.

It was tough on the fans who travelled, but everyone knew what kind of team we'd put out; and so many fans love the chance to see the kids play –– after all, there are constant cries to give them a chance, as "they can't do any worse, right?". The same people who hailed Benitez for (unlike the previous manager) giving the kids a proper chance and the responsibility to show their talents and develop their games, were now castigating the decision to play them (as they were seen as the weakest part of a weak side).

These kids were then duly excused (despite only Raven and Whitbread having decent games), and the older pros blamed; if that's the case, fair enough, but it can't also be Benitez's fault in terms of fielding a weakened team when his senior players were the ones who let him down the most. The senior players had also been poor against Watford –– sometimes a manager hopes hungry kids will use these kind of occasions to bust a gut and prove their worth. After all, shouldn't the Academy lads understand what the FA Cup is all about, and be the kind of players you'd want in an up-and-under blood-and-guts cup tie? As ever, too many people were wise only after the event.

There's too much going against Benitez at the moment to be too critical of him. He is fighting to make his own luck, but not really succeeding on that score.

To make matters worse, Hyypia is now injured (how severely I'm not sure, but it didn't look good), and Gerrard is playing like Salif Diao on account of a nagging groin injury.

Then there are the latest new boys.

Morientes and Pellegrino arrived in good condition from training, but lacking match fitness. So what do you do, if further training is not really going to sharpen them up? You can but play them –– ideally they'd have got a game at Burnley, but neither was eligible. So they have to play in league games; alas, it's proving a tough baptism for both players. Patience is thin on the ground on Merseyside, after the previous two seasons of mediocrity.

I can understand the reasons behind adding both players to the side; neither the defence or attack was broken (so why fix them?), but at the same time, they weren't looking totally inspiring either. Since both players have come in, things have suddenly appeared to be broken.

Did Rafa need to throw Morientes in straight away?

Well, everyone agreed we needed a new striker; opinions differed on just who exactly, but I don't recall anyone saying we didn't need anyone. We had been scoring a decent amount of goals, but not killing teams off, and the attacking part of our game needed an experienced fulcrum, to act as the steadying influence on Baros' improvisational skills. In the circumstances, playing Morientes as soon as he signed made perfect sense.

So far the Spaniard has looked rather shell-shocked, as many newcomers to English football initially tend to. He has displayed some fine touches, but the pace of the game will take some getting used to. You cannot do that from the stands, can you? He's also struggling to understand or second-guess what Milan Baros is going to do; whoever plays alongside the Czech must be driven mad, not having a clue when he's going to pass –– if at all. That's all part of Milan's effectiveness –– taking people on and getting shots in. Opposition defences can't read him, but nor can his teammates. If anyone can gel with Baros, it's Morientes; but the Spaniard may struggle for a good few games yet.

His introduction has been further impaired by the fact he's yet to start with either Kewell or Nunez –– two oft-derided players, but two players who stay wide and look to deliver crosses. Instead of playing it out wide, we've grown narrow (in Houllier-esque fashion) and hit long balls from the back, as if Emile Heskey was back in the side; suddenly we've stopped creating chances, and by going to two up front (what nearly everyone was crying out for), are getting out-numbered in midfield. Morientes is better attacking crosses, not playing like Niall Quinn. I felt we'd resist the urge for those kind of passes given the football Rafa wants us to play, but it seems the players have taken that easy Route (One) to often. These kind of mistakes will not continue, as Benitez is too clever to let them.

Morientes' arrival has resulted in confusion in our attacking play; but better to get him in now and get used to the situation, than to avoid dealing with our attacking shortcomings, and merely crossing our fingers and hoping for the best.

Then there's Pellegrino, whose introduction has reeked havoc to our defensive stability. Did Rafa need to make changes at the back?

Carra and Sami had been doing extremely well, having struck up a fine understanding, but we've kept very few clean sheets; tending to concede one (often costly) goal every game. It made sense to add another proven winner to the backline, and some valuable experience –– but of course this has caused some uncertainty, and a lack of pace.

It's very rare that you change the backline and it reap instant dividends; is it teething problems, or a sign of something more serious? The problem is that Pellegrino may already have done irreversible damage to his reputation, and lost the faith of the fans. The Argentine had a nightmare at Southampton, but Warnock –– who all the fans wanted to see given a game, as a local and a gritty Brit –– was equally culpable on both goals. But Pellegrino copped all the blame.

Unfortunately, too many people will have now made their mind up about Pellegrino, and closed off any chance of changing their opinion; just as they did with Nunez after his inauspicious start, before he began to show real signs of improvement. Nunez, Morientes and Pellegrino all have suffered from making their debuts in English football when the season was already well under way, and when they were lacking match practice. It's only made their task that much harder.

What Rafa is doing now will serve us well next season; but fans tend to care only about this week. I said at the start of the season that we'd probably have a more successful season this time out if we kept Gerard Houllier –– it would still be disappointing, of course, but we could be mediocre due to the consistency of keeping the same staff in place; stagnating, but gaining (a few) benefits from sticking with a management team familiar with both its own players and the opposition personnel and tactics. The trouble with that is that next season would end up the same, or worse; whereas after a year of bedding in, Benitez could be expected to reverse the downtrend and set his La Liga-winning ideas into practice. It's taking time for things to fall into place, but that was always likely to be the way. It really was. If you didn't believe that, more fool you.

It gets worse for Rafa.

He has had the misfortune of Everton having their best start of a season for donkey's years. (The wheels are now falling off, thankfully, regarding the race for fourth place; but we need to get our own house in order first). Being below Everton only increases the pressure on a Liverpool manager, and shortens the patience of the fans. If Everton were 19th now, things would be much rosier, wouldn't they?

Also, Jose Mourinho has made an amazing start at Chelsea, but comparisons with Benitez's task are not fair: the Portuguese has spent lots of money, in addition to inheriting a team on a dramatic upward curve, and with great players like Cech and Robben already signed by the outgoing manager. It's easier to jump into the cockpit of a purring Formula One car and speed away than it is to jump-start a classic Rolls Royce that's been in the garage gathering rust due to neglect.

Excuses, excuses

It's not about making excuses for Benitez; it's about appreciating the extenuating circumstances. Ideally Morientes would have joined pre-season, when Owen left (ideally Owen would have stayed). Ideally we wouldn't have suffered so many serious injuries. Benitez hasn't inherited an ideal world.

My general (although scientifically-inexact) rule of thumb to supporting a manager is that in his first year, he gets my full unequivocal trust (unless he goes totally insane and sells the entire squad and replaces them with a collection of small woodland mammals). The second season is when I expect to see consistent signs of improvement, and the third season is when I expect the club to be at its strongest. After that third year, if things stop improving and start regressing, you need to worry; and two poor years, consecutively, at that point, is unacceptable.

It's the same with players; the first year can be treacherous; the second is often the one when it's make-or-break.

To draw this installment to a close, let me give you an example of where jumping to conclusions can let you down; it did in my case.

Zonal marking was the first major concern of the Benitez era; I have to say I was far from happy with it at the start, and made my dislike of the new system at set pieces known. We didn't appear to know what we're doing. I looked on, understanding the theory, but the practice was just not the way things are done over here. It would never work. Why cause all these extra problems so unnecessarily? I am happy to admit I was –– on current evidence –– very wrong.

When was the last goal we conceded from a corner or a (crossed) free-kick? There was the Joe Cole goal at Anfield, where an unmarked man headed back and a shot outside the area deflected flukily in; not exactly the fault of zonal marking, but the first header could have been cut out. But before that? Joe Cole's goal at Stamford Bridge fully three months earlier?

I've just seen the goals from a Premiership game –– Norwich vs Boro –– where both teams were man-marking at set pieces, and witnessed five goals come from a failure to man-mark (four corners, one free-kick). I watched each thinking "we'd have had a man in that zone, ready to deal with the danger". Did anyone mention man-marking as the fault of such shoddy defending?

Zonal marking is a good example of how something can take time to get right, but once got right, it can lead to great benefits. No doubt we'll concede another goal from a corner (no system is completely infallible) and zonal marking will be lambasted by all and sundry.

This whole season is going to be like zonal marking: making radical changes that may backfire at first, as the changes bed-in and take shape –– leading to mistakes and misunderstandings –– but from then on, it should be a steady improvement. That's how football works.

It's tough, but fans need to take a step back. Difficult, when you're still paying for tickets and travelling the country. But if you wanted quick and easy fixes, then there couldn't have been much of a problem to start with, could there?

As ever, to register a (purely provisional) interest in purchasing my book on LFC when it is published this summer, please email [email]tomkins_lfcbook@btinternet.com.[/email] Many thanks to the hundreds to have so far expressed an interest.

by **A.B.** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:55 pm

This article is a breath of fresh air. *bows down*

by **Scottbot** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:57 pm

Aye, just about everything Tomkins writes is spot on. A few on here could do with reading his stuff every day!

by **A.B.** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:58 pm

This article is a must read.

by **mrcool2003** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:11 pm

thats a very good article, rock, well done m8

for the record i was one of the ppl asking to give him more time, but yes a very interesting read and a eye opener, i didnt actually know how shankly did at the start

by **gazkell** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:30 pm

brilliant peice. well written. agree with every single word. say no more.

by **Gareth G** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:35 pm

Hope some of the idiots who claim to be LFC fans read that.

Good post Rock.

by **Gareth G** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:37 pm

Also, i think regular Anfield goers should show their support for Raffa by singing his name loud and clear. Just worried inase those other ****** put banners and such up and end up forcing Raffa out. I think his character would be strong enough to stick with it, but just a saftey measure lol.

by **jonnymac1979** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:10 pm

Scottbot wrote:A few on here could do with reading his stuff every day!

I do read his stuff every day. I'm on the provisional list for his book.

by **ronmeister** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:50 pm

Good article very well written ,he makes it easy for pple to understand what a lot of pple have been thinking thanks Rock

by **L-type** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:51 pm

Yeah usually he's spot on, and he didnt let us down today. Rather long, if youy want the summarized version here it is...

My general (although scientifically-inexact) rule of thumb to supporting a manager is that in his first year, he gets my full unequivocal trust (unless he goes totally insane and sells the entire squad and replaces them with a collection of small woodland mammals). - Paul Tompkins

by **Ciggy** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:16 pm

by **liamac** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:04 pm

Talk about hitting the nail on the head ! thanks for giving me the chance to read that article Rock.............spot on mate.

Are you reading Roberts

?

by **82-1074641017** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:19 pm

liamac wrote:Talk about hitting the nail on the head ! thanks for giving me the chance to read that article Rock.............spot on mate.

Are you reading Roberts ? ? ?

Dont worry Ive read it, its a different game nowadays though sadly, and the further we fall behind the less and less likely it will be to ever catch up to the Top Three

Totally different ball game than it was in those days, time will tell anyway

Legend Roberts

by **A.B.** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:21 pm

Roberts wrote:
liamac wrote:Talk about hitting the nail on the head ! thanks for giving me the chance to read that article Rock.............spot on mate.

Are you reading Roberts ? ? ?

Dont worry Ive read it, its a different game nowadays though sadly, and the further we fall behind the less and less likely it will be to ever catch up to the Top Three
Totally different ball game than it was in those days, time will tell anyway

Legend Roberts

You've missed the whole point of the article.

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