Liverpool FC Forum

YSLS - Your talking bollux. Sorry the tact button on my keyboard is still knackered  Ayres was responsible for Suarez, Sturridge and Cortinho. On top of that he has negotiated some brilliant sponsorship deals worldwide to put us on a more secure financial footing. To compare our management with the individuals that worked under H & G is simply not realistic. And we certainly don't know all the facts. Pure fkg conjecture sums up your somewhat naive post. We haven't really got a clue why deals fail or succeed. And if you think that £30m a season is enough to realistically compete with teams that have 34 players out on loan then you're clearly from a different planet especially when we are developing a relatively weak squad that truly lacks strength in depth and has for many years. I notice you never mentioned Solado. I wonder why! Sorry mate but I think your assessment is utter tripe.

devaney » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:59 pm wrote:YSLS - Your talking bollux. Sorry the tact button on my keyboard is still knackered  Ayres was responsible for Suarez, Sturridge and Cortinho. On top of that he has negotiated some brilliant sponsorship deals worldwide to put us on a more secure financial footing. To compare our management with the individuals that worked under H & G is simply not realistic. And we certainly don't know all the facts. Pure fkg conjecture sums up your somewhat naive post. We haven't really got a clue why deals fail or succeed. And if you think that £30m a season is enough to realistically compete with teams that have 34 players out on loan then you're clearly from a different planet especially when we are developing a relatively weak squad that truly lacks strength in depth and has for many years. I notice you never mentioned Solado. I wonder why! Sorry mate but I think your assessment is utter tripe.

Oh wow! Sponsorship deals! Great, that's just brilliant isn't? I forgot we're in the business industry. My bad.

Yes, we don't know the facts, but do you know enough of the "facts" to say my assessment is wrong? No, you're just another poster who thinks he knows based on what he reads but clueless otherwise. The defending champions do not have 34 players on loan at the moment do they? And I never said 30m is enough, so don't put words in my mouth, bitch. I'm saying, too much money has been wasted on players who are not being used because they either just sit on the bench or are sent out on loan. I thought that was clear but clearly you missed the point.

ps: I never mentioned "Solado" as I've no idea who he is.

Fine, you admit we don't know the facts and yet you're quite happy to throw around some distasteful accusations. Not something I tend to do unless I am in possession of all the important details. In other words I don't try and join up the dots when I only have half the information. You admit to being clueless (well that is the inference) when it comes to the finer details that is of course unless you consider yourself to be within the inner circle, so why do you abuse the people that have actually got the club in a better position that it has been in for years.

You want us to succeed and yet you laughably dismiss sponsorship deals as if they weren't important. And wether you like it or not it is a business and not a registered charity as a lot of misguided fans seem to think.

Suggest you read the first sentence of your post. Your suggesting that lack of money is a weak excuse due to some wasteful purchases. There is certainly an element of truth in that but there is also a lot of truth in the more important fact that £30m a year on transfers is insufficient to serious compete with the likes of Chelsea who have 34 players on loan and Man City who have assembled a team spending considerably more than £500m. I've never wanted a rich "sugar daddy" but I am a realist.

Solado was a typo which I'm sure you know and should read Soldado who so far has not set the world on fire at Spurs. You very conveniently ignored my comment about Ayres being responsible for Suarez Sturridge and Coutinho. When Ayres does decent work people tend to overlook it which typifies a lot of fans.

devaney » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:57 pm wrote:Fine, you admit we don't know the facts and yet your quite happy to throw around some distasteful accusations. Not something I tend to do unless I am in possession of all the important details. In other words I don't try and join up the dots when I only have half the information. You admit to being clueless so why do you abuse the people that have actually got the club in a better position that it has been in for years.

Suggest you read the first sentence of your post. Your suggesting that lack of money is a weak excuse due to some wasteful purchases. There is certainly an element of truth in that but there is also a lot of truth in the more important fact that £30m a year on transfers is insufficient to serious compete with the likes of Chelsea who have 34 players on loan and Man City who have assembled a team spending considerably more than £500m.

Solado was a typo which I sure you know and should read Soldado.

I'm sorry Devaney but you're making it sound like we can't compete in the market. You're right, when we continually waste £20,000,000 a season on average players instead of spending it on one good player then the money excuse goes right out of the window.

Sahko, Borini, Allen cost a whopping £42,000,000 (approximately) between them and Aspas, Alberto and Illori cost another £21,000,000 between them. To be quite honest, I firmly believe that we could have had just as good a season this season with out any of those players. I certainly don't think we'd miss any of them greatly. For me, thats £60,000,000 + spunked up the wall over the space of two seasons.

Anyone who uses a lack of money as an excuse needs their head testing. We absolutely have to do better to compete. No excuses. The players are out there.

Stu it's very easy to simply select the players that so far haven't set the world on fire. That's not to say that some of the players you have listed won't prove to be a success in the longer term. Henderson is an example of how easy it would have been to make a mistake. The transfer committee very nearly got rid of him in a deal for Dempey who was extremely poor in the year he spent at Spurs. And just look at the flack the owners got for missing out on Dempsey when we didn't have a replacement for Carroll who we sent out on loan. The transfer market is a tricky place and mistakes will be made. I actually prefer to look at the three major successes that probably equal and exceed most transfer deals. Suarez Coutinho and Sturridge are the key reason for our success. Selling Torres for £50m was a major success. Hindsight is an exact science. Abusing the people that have done some impressive work is unreasonable that is my gripe.

devaney » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:57 pm wrote:Stu it's very easy to simply select the players that so far haven't set the world on fire. That's not to say that some of the players you have listed won't prove to be a success in the longer term. Henderson is an example of how easy it would have been to make a mistake. The transfer committee very nearly got rid of him in a deal for Dempey who was extremely poor in the year he spent at Spurs. And just look at the flack the owners got for missing out on Dempsey when we didn't have a replacement for Carroll who we sent out on loan. The transfer market is a tricky place and mistakes will be made. I actually prefer to look at the three major successes that probably equal and exceed most transfer deals. Suarez Coutinho and Sturridge are the key reason for our success. Selling Torres for £50m was a major success. Hindsight is an exact science. Abusing the people that have done some impressive work is unreasonable that is my gripe.

According to journalists Rodgers himself is frustrated that FSG are keeping a tight grip on the purse strings.

devaney » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:57 am wrote:Stu it's very easy to simply select the players that so far haven't set the world on fire. That's not to say that some of the players you have listed won't prove to be a success in the longer term. Henderson is an example of how easy it would have been to make a mistake. The transfer committee very nearly got rid of him in a deal for Dempey who was extremely poor in the year he spent at Spurs. And just look at the flack the owners got for missing out on Dempsey when we didn't have a replacement for Carroll who we sent out on loan. The transfer market is a tricky place and mistakes will be made. I actually prefer to look at the three major successes that probably equal and exceed most transfer deals. Suarez Coutinho and Sturridge are the key reason for our success. Selling Torres for £50m was a major success. Hindsight is an exact science. Abusing the people that have done some impressive work is unreasonable that is my gripe.

I'm not abusing the owners what so ever. I find it laughable that people even discuss them as regularly as they do and feel as strongly as they do about them. To me, it simply could be worse, it could be better. They've given the manager plenty of money to spend. In fact, I'd be suprised if you went through everyone of my thousand and odd posts if i've actually discussed the owners on more than 3 occassions at one post per go.

I was always brought up to believe, and still know this to be true in 90% of English clubs, that the buck, nine times out of ten stops with the manager. While its a managers job to make the owners (rather than the fans) happy, a manager needs to be strong enough to say to our owners "look, this is what we need, this is why, the fans will back me over you". Rodgers isn't doing that with our current owners and the players we're signing on a regular basis aren't good enough.

Spending £8,000,000 on Coutinho was fabulous business, spending £7,000,000 on Ilori, so far at least has proved embarrassingly bad business.

And you can bang on about those players all you like, but they've all contributed next to nothing to our season which quite frankly isn't good enough. The only one who has a chance at being worth the fee is Sahko, Allen, while not a bad player was massively overpriced as was Henderson, especially for the amount of quality, or lack of they bring.

Also, the Suarez and Torres deal's were nothing to do with Rodgers what so ever.

The money spent over the last two years has been wasted and that is not good enough. If we put 3 players that could be signed £20,000,000 in our side now instead of those players we actually signed we could easily be league contenders.

Lets be honest, the only players Rodgers has signed that have improved us so far are Sturridge and Coutinho. I'm hopeful of Sahko, but he's yet to prove it. The rest, have quite honestly had next to no impact.

Have to agree 100% with Stu regarding our transfer policy under Rodgers.

Money has been there for him. We will always want more and he hasnt had silly money to spend.
But we cant go spending 7 million on a young centre half like Ilori and then not give the lad a kick and farm him out on loan.
That's ok if you have a squad like City or Chelsea have but when we are clearly weak in certain positions then it's wasting money.
Coutinho and Sturridge have been brilliant signings and have transformed the side for me but far too mant others have been big misses rather than hits.
Borini
Aspas
Alberto
Ilori are all nowhere near the side and cost about 40 million.
No matter where we finish this season we cant waste money like that again.

Rodgers has shown he is a very good coach and man manager but the jury is very much still out on him iro of signings.

Ben Patrick » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:10 pm wrote:Have to agree 100% with Stu regarding our transfer policy under Rodgers.

Money has been there for him. We will always want more and he hasnt had silly money to spend.
But we cant go spending 7 million on a young centre half like Ilori and then not give the lad a kick and farm him out on loan.
That's ok if you have a squad like City or Chelsea have but when we are clearly weak in certain positions then it's wasting money.
Coutinho and Sturridge have been brilliant signings and have transformed the side for me but far too mant others have been big misses rather than hits.
Borini
Aspas
Alberto
Ilori are all nowhere near the side and cost about 40 million.
No matter where we finish this season we cant waste money like that again.

Rodgers has shown he is a very good coach and man manager but the jury is very much still out on him iro of signings.

I think he is an outstanding coach, one of the best around if I'm honest. Also his man management seems to be top notch. He proved that with Sturridge, Suarez and also with Flannagan.

I think he's also developing young players, which is also excellent.

Where I believe he lacks is tactical knowledge, substitutions and signing players of quality. The tactical knowledge thing is something I think he has the ability to learn as he's proven this season he's occasionally changed the style of play to suit a player or two and generally has got it spot on, however there is still a fair way to go in this department.

In terms of signings though, Alberto, Aspas, Illori and Moses were all signed this summer for £22,000,000 and have contributed nothing to the season. Had we simply kept Shelvey instead of these four players, we would be absolutely no worse off what so ever.

We could have then used the money to sign one decent player. Occasionally bargains are out there, Coutinho was certainly one, but as a "transfer philosophy" this isn't going to work long term.

We need two "Marquee" style signings in the summer, one at the back, one on the wing and we need to improve the midfield area too. Johnson, Skrtel and Lucas all have transfer value. Even if we raise £15,000,000 to £20,000,000 on realeasing those players we can then spend that money on one good player and probably save money on wages as well.

I'd gladly swap those three for Morgan Schneiderlin or Steven Nzonzi.

Yeah I think we all agree where we are weak and with the fact that we have to go for the top end player bracket this time.
The 3 players you have named to lose I actually agree with all three of them as well.
Skrtel for teams that dont watch him regulaly would be one that we could easily get more than what he is worth for me.
He has scored goals in big games and if you dont support Liverpool you probably wont realise how much of a liability the lad is.
Lucas will continue to divide the fans. I am in your camp. I dont think he brings anything to the table at all. He can do steady-ish job in there but is for me nowhere near good enough for what we want.
I think his form just before the Chelsea injury was for about half a season great. Since the injury he hasnt got near that level and is for me off the pace in most games.
Nzonzi is a player that I was speaking to my uncle about, who is a season ticket holder at Stoke. He said when he is on his game he is a top player. But that his form can be hit and miss. He has all the tools to be a top player but is wasting it. What he did say though is he thinks he would be better at a top 6 side.
Johnson is one that I would I know you have felt was never good enough and in the past I've disagreed. This season his form has been shocking and to the extent that at times it looked to me like he was playing bevied every week.
I dont know what the situation is with him but if he comes back and is anywhere near as bad then he will be gone in the summer. He hasnt git long on his contract and is on high wages that are nowhere near justified at the moment.

The players to bring in will be the difficult one. My knowledge of players in other leagues is not good at all so I honestly cant throw any names about but those 3 positions if we bring in top end players we would improve massively.

Stu/Ben - Abuse of the owners was aimed at Max. The thread has got a bit messy - partly my fault - sorry! I mentioned Suarez and Torres because Ayre's and the owners who were being heavily criticised by Max were responsible for those deals.

The point I was making is that we tend to overlook the good and concentrate on the bad which lets face it is a trait of most fans (including me on the very odd occasion ) simply because we want the best. As Max pointed out we our in a great position and January was the time to spend and spend big which I said before the window opened. It didn't happen for whatever reason and as not big on conjecture I certainly won't criticise the individuals involved. Yes we have got some deals wrong but so does everybody. But some of the deals we have got right over the last couple of years have been absolute stormers. Would it be unreasonable to suggest that Suarez Coutinho and Sturridge are worth £110/120m for an outlay of just over £40m. It just grates a bit when some fans talk about Ayre's and the owners with zero respect.

Ben Patrick » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:52 pm wrote:Yeah I think we all agree where we are weak and with the fact that we have to go for the top end player bracket this time.
The 3 players you have named to lose I actually agree with all three of them as well.
Skrtel for teams that dont watch him regulaly would be one that we could easily get more than what he is worth for me.
He has scored goals in big games and if you dont support Liverpool you probably wont realise how much of a liability the lad is.
Lucas will continue to divide the fans. I am in your camp. I dont think he brings anything to the table at all. He can do steady-ish job in there but is for me nowhere near good enough for what we want.
I think his form just before the Chelsea injury was for about half a season great. Since the injury he hasnt got near that level and is for me off the pace in most games.
Nzonzi is a player that I was speaking to my uncle about, who is a season ticket holder at Stoke. He said when he is on his game he is a top player. But that his form can be hit and miss. He has all the tools to be a top player but is wasting it. What he did say though is he thinks he would be better at a top 6 side.
Johnson is one that I would I know you have felt was never good enough and in the past I've disagreed. This season his form has been shocking and to the extent that at times it looked to me like he was playing bevied every week.
I dont know what the situation is with him but if he comes back and is anywhere near as bad then he will be gone in the summer. He hasnt git long on his contract and is on high wages that are nowhere near justified at the moment.

The players to bring in will be the difficult one. My knowledge of players in other leagues is not good at all so I honestly cant throw any names about but those 3 positions if we bring in top end players we would improve massively.

I do believe Skrtel's reputation to be a lot better than his ability. I also believe he would bring a decent fee should he leave, and he could be easily replaced next to Sahko by Toure or Agger, even Wisdom given the games. Johnson and Lucas are also players we've proven we can do without, so replacing them with someone who'll walk straight into the side and moving around the priority of the current players would free up funds, wages and also allow us to improve.

I think Nzonzi is a very good player, the point I think your uncle has made may well be valid but form is something that can be related to team mates. Ability isn't. IE you might have the best vision in the world but if no one makes a run, you can't find them... your link up play may be outstanding, but if someone doesn't want to play a one two with you or lend you a ball or give you a pass back after lending it then you're again wasting your time. Ability is a players proficiency in an area. IE decisions, finishing, movement, touch, strength, speed... form can be related to getting the best out of those attributes. Some limited players have played miles above themselves in the past due to being employed in the right manor and having a few key attributes that allow them to perform certain roles within a team. Carragher and Lampard are two that spring to mind.

devaney » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:00 pm wrote:Stu/Ben - Abuse of the owners was aimed at Max. The thread has got a bit messy - partly my fault - sorry! I mentioned Suarez and Torres because Ayre's and the owners who were being heavily criticised by Max were responsible for those deals.

The point I was making is that we tend to overlook the good and concentrate on the bad which lets face it is a trait of most fans (including me on the very odd occasion ) simply because we want the best. As Max pointed out we our in a great position and January was the time to spend and spend big which I said before the window opened. It didn't happen for whatever reason and as not big on conjecture I certainly won't criticise the individuals involved. Yes we have got some deals wrong but so does everybody. But some of the deals we have got right over the last couple of years have been absolute stormers. Would it be unreasonable to suggest that Suarez Coutinho and Sturridge are worth £110/120m for an outlay of just over £40m. It just grates a bit when some fans talk about Ayre's and the owners with zero respect.

That's fair enough, but saying "we've got some wrong, but doesn't everyone" doesn't wash with me. Get them right, they're paid enough too. If I was doing stuff at that standard mate I'd personally expect to sign more good players than duffers. If you aren't 100% sure, don't sign them. You sign players like Alberto as a squad filler and in hope more than expectation with remaining money, you don't spend 21,000,000 or whatever it is on three of that type in one window!

devaney » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:00 pm wrote:Stu/Ben - Abuse of the owners was aimed at Max. The thread has got a bit messy - partly my fault - sorry! I mentioned Suarez and Torres because Ayre's and the owners who were being heavily criticised by Max were responsible for those deals.

The point I was making is that we tend to overlook the good and concentrate on the bad which lets face it is a trait of most fans (including me on the very odd occasion ) simply because we want the best. As Max pointed out we our in a great position and January was the time to spend and spend big which I said before the window opened. It didn't happen for whatever reason and as not big on conjecture I certainly won't criticise the individuals involved. Yes we have got some deals wrong but so does everybody. But some of the deals we have got right over the last couple of years have been absolute stormers. Would it be unreasonable to suggest that Suarez Coutinho and Sturridge are worth £110/120m for an outlay of just over £40m. It just grates a bit when some fans talk about Ayre's and the owners with zero respect.

I wasn't abusing the owners. I was merely criticizing the transfer committee for leaving it so late for the Konaplaynka deal as reported by several sites. At least get that right. And you're one to talk about respect when posting aren't you, you hypocrite? 

If we don't finish in the top 4, it would be a massive disappointment as January would have been the time to get the defensive midfielder and the fullback we badly needed. We can't compete with the others like City and Chelsea which makes it all the more vital that we don't spend money on players and sent them on loan. If you can't get that around your head, which is the gist of the post I was making, then don't bother replying 

Another reason why we're being held back - Howard Webb

Howard Webb has escaped being relegated to the Football League after his refereeing of Arsenal's FA Cup win against Liverpool drew intense criticism from the Anfield club and from pundits.

The official will take charge of Cardiff's Premier League match against Hull on Saturday and he has reacted to storm surrounding his performance by trying to end discussion of his off-field activities.

Webb has had his name removed from a celebrity website advertising his services for after-dinner speaking following suggestions he had lost his focus on refereeing.

He initially came under fire from Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers and captain Steven Gerrard for denying Luis Suarez what appeared to be a clear penalty in Arsenal's 2-1 win at Emirates Stadium on Sunday.

However, he was also heavily criticised by former top-flight referee Mark Halsey, who made the claim that Webb had been distracted by his off-field interests and needed to take "a good look at himself."

Webb's apparent reaction has been to have his name, profile and references to his speaking activities erased from an agency website.

Webb was listed as a client of the website comedians.co.uk, which represents numerous high-profile figures from sport, politics and entertainment.

His fee was listed as between 2,000 pounds to 4,000 pounds, according to the Daily Telegraph, and the paper claims someone acting on behalf of Webb asked the agency to remove his details because of the criticism it had brought him.

Webb does, however, reportedly remain a client and available for motivational talks. The spotlight will remain on the official, however, as he returns to action on Saturday.

He is considered to be the country's top referee and will represent England at the World Cup in Brazil.

The Premier League are reluctant to demote officials unless they have produced a bad run of games and try to avoid reacting too quickly to what can be one-off errors.

Rodgers may dispute that Webb's decision on Sunday was an isolated error. The referee may have given Liverpool one penalty in the game, when Lukas Podolski fouled Suarez, but the manager pointed to a previous incident at Chelsea when his Uruguayan striker was also denied a spot kick.


comedians.co.uk lol the irony