Liverpool FC Forum

woof woof ! » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:12 pm wrote:

laza » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:33 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:50 am wrote:i remember watching a program on the discovery channel which said the russians faced 10 german divisions to every 1 faced by the allies during WWII.

Yeah scale, ferocity and sheers numbers of the fighting on Eastern front not to mention the weather conditions is quite mind boggling

Can you imagine how the world would be if Hitler hadn't attacked Russia ? If most of those German divisions were deployed in western Europe 

Too true mate , I hate to think what would have happened  to the Normandy Landings if the cream of German wehrmacht wasn't fighting or lying under the Russian steppes in 44

Don't worry the Americans would have saved the day - haven't you seen any war films

Too true mate , I hate to think what would have happened  to the Normandy Landings if the cream of German wehrmacht wasn't fighting or lying under the Russian steppes in 44

We could have put the Aussie's there instead and used them as cannon fodder (again).    

Kenny Kan » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:00 pm wrote:

Too true mate , I hate to think what would have happened  to the Normandy Landings if the cream of German wehrmacht wasn't fighting or lying under the Russian steppes in 44

We could have put the Aussie's there instead and used them as cannon fodder (again).   :D 

funny enough i was watching another program on discovery or the military history channel or one of those types of things about gallipoli (well about the first world war but gallipoli was part of it).  it`s a little known fact that the french lost more men than the aussie`s at gallipoli and the british lost far more than the french and aussies put together. i always thought for some reason that there were only aussie`s and turks fighting at gallipoli, infact the vast majority of the allied forces fighting there were british.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:22 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:00 pm wrote:

Too true mate , I hate to think what would have happened  to the Normandy Landings if the cream of German wehrmacht wasn't fighting or lying under the Russian steppes in 44

We could have put the Aussie's there instead and used them as cannon fodder (again).   :D 

funny enough i was watching another program on discovery or the military history channel or one of those types of things about gallipoli (well about the first world war but gallipoli was part of it).  it`s a little known fact that the french lost more men than the aussie`s at gallipoli and the british lost far more than the french and aussies put together. i always thought for some reason that there were only aussie`s and turks fighting at gallipoli, infact the vast majority of the allied forces fighting there were british.

Yeah, I actually knew (only found out recently myself) that the British lost way more lives there than the Aussie's and the French did.

Kenny Kan » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:00 pm wrote:

Too true mate , I hate to think what would have happened  to the Normandy Landings if the cream of German wehrmacht wasn't fighting or lying under the Russian steppes in 44

We could have put the Aussie's there instead and used them as cannon fodder (again).   :D 

Havent we deported you to PNG yet 

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:22 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:00 pm wrote:

Too true mate , I hate to think what would have happened  to the Normandy Landings if the cream of German wehrmacht wasn't fighting or lying under the Russian steppes in 44

We could have put the Aussie's there instead and used them as cannon fodder (again).   :D 

funny enough i was watching another program on discovery or the military history channel or one of those types of things about gallipoli (well about the first world war but gallipoli was part of it).  it`s a little known fact that the french lost more men than the aussie`s at gallipoli and the british lost far more than the french and aussies put together. i always thought for some reason that there were only aussie`s and turks fighting at gallipoli, infact the vast majority of the allied forces fighting there were british.

That's been pretty well known here in Oz except for those who get their history from Mel Gibson movies
One little known fact is that one  night at Fromelles on western front was probably worst day in OZ army history then any day at Gallipoli with over 5000 casualties including 2000 dead
Another little known fact is many of ANZACs were actually British born

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:17 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:47 am wrote:It's not like the Russians had a lack of troops though.

all the same, it took some doing stopping those german panzer divisions once they got rolling, they went through western europe like a dose of salts.
even with all the manpower the russians had (not to mention bravery) it still took them nearly a 1000 miles and a severe winter to stop them

The Germans grossly underestimated the conditions they would face. The fact that they delayed the planned start of Operation Barbarossa from mid May to late June had a severe effect on their plans for a quick victory. The Gemans were almost at the gates of Moscow when the rains came and turned the ground into a virtual mud swamp having a devastating effect on their supply and movement.
When the snows finally came they were totally unprepared for the severity of the Russian winter with weapons of all calibre freezing solid along with their armour and transports.

In addition German intelligence failed to  correctly assess the strength of Russian armour, the Germans were shocked when they first encountered the newly developed Russian heavy tanks ( the KV1) and the superb Russian medium tank (the T34)

Allied to this the Russians almost limitless manpower and their ability to relocate and reorganise their production centres with entire factories being dismantled shipped east beyond the Urals and rebuilt meant that German hopes of a quick victory over Russia were doomed almost within just a few months of their initial attack.

Two of the best and most authoratative books on the war in the east are "The Road to Stalingrad" and "The Road to Berlin" by John Eriksen, a bit dry but a must read for anyone seriously interested in the subject.

Another great book is "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer a record of the war in the east from an individual soldiers perspective, although there is some debate on it's authenticity it's probably the most engrossing book on the war in Russia that I've ever read.