Liverpool FC Forum

StuYesThatStu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:54 pm wrote:

Ben Patrick » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:51 pm wrote:Haha the forum will be a better place for your return.

Thanks Ben... I've chilled out a bit though over the last three or four years... gettin on a bit these days... 30 soon...

I've learnt how to argue, convince, disagree with everyone without wanting to rip there faces off... I probably will still reply to every post I disagree with though, just for old times sake 

get a clue lad 

now behave 

StuYesThatStu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:18 pm wrote:

Redman in wales » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:01 pm wrote:yep, i did say that and stand by it. 

He aint Gerrards standard no - but who would be to come and sit on the bench?

Lucas and Gerrard is the preferred midfield two and will be starting a majority of games (barring injury) so any CM we could have bought to boulster our midfield would be only get time from the bench, or when one of the starting two get injured. I see Henderson as that person.

I'm not saying he's who we need long term, or who we should build the team around, I'm saying he'd do a job whilst Gerrard's injured, and I'd be okay with that.

Stu - Who do you think we could have got this summer to play that role? (ie the 3rd choice midfeilder who  comes off the bench, or starts only if Gerrards injured)

Really? you're standing by that comment? Are you sure? even after thinking about it?

Oh dear lord...

To be fair, I wouldn't see it like that. I would see it as bringing someone in better than Lucas and Gerrard and moving each down the pecking order by one. I am never a fan of signing players to sit on the bench unless they are loan players or a back up to a world class player. Lucas isn't world class so for me had we gone and splashed the cash on Alonso for Example... Then I would have been happier.

Take Gerrard out of our midfield... and its quite frankly poor at best. Where as for example... we had Gerrard, Alonso, Lucas, Henderson... then one of Gerrard/Alonso gets injured, you still have a class player in there.

Although we aren't weak in this area at the minute, I do believe we need to improve on Lucas. Allen for me is a waste of space. Never a top half premiership player.

Now you see I agree with this – but that’s kinda the point  - that an Alonso (or of that ilk) wouldn’t sign for us at the moment. If we somehow managed to get champions league football or did a man city and overpay and give them huge wages then yes, but until then we can’t attract many players like that.

I agree with lucas being the weak link who needs “upgrading” and then benching lucas, but again its hard to get that quality as we are. A champions league spot or maybe a 5th place + domestic cup and a bit more money thrown at it and i’d want to see a class Cm join us. 

Allen I agree with.

So back to our original “disagreement” – I would still be comfortable with Henderson deputising for Gerrard this season– but would agree with you that we need a better CM to replace Lucas and move him down the pecking order

Now you see I agree with this – but that’s kinda the point  - that an Alonso (or of that ilk) wouldn’t sign for us at the moment. If we somehow managed to get champions league football or did a man city and overpay and give them huge wages then yes, but until then we can’t attract many players like that.

I agree with lucas being the weak link who needs “upgrading” and then benching lucas, but again its hard to get that quality as we are. A champions league spot or maybe a 5th place + domestic cup and a bit more money thrown at it and i’d want to see a class Cm join us. 

Allen I agree with.

So back to our original “disagreement” – I would still be comfortable with Henderson deputising for Gerrard this season– but would agree with you that we need a better CM to replace Lucas and move him down the pecking order

But Barry has just signed for the ***** on loan for a season. Now for me Barry... or even Cabaye, would get into our side ahead of Lucas. Either could have been signed and improve the side. That would have allowed us to ship out Allen and recoup some money. Now I'm not saying Barry and Cabaye are the answer long term, but both are considerabley better than what we have.

Either of those two next to Lucas doesn't look as weak as Henderson and Lucas.

I don't buy all this champions league arguement either. There are always good players around that aren't in that and would love to play for a club of Liverpool's size. Its about being good enough to find them.

I can think of alot players who would improve our side at the minute who aren't in the champions league.

StuYesThatStu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:54 pm wrote:

Ben Patrick » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:51 pm wrote:Haha the forum will be a better place for your return.

Thanks Ben... I've chilled out a bit though over the last three or four years... gettin on a bit these days... 30 soon...

I've learnt how to argue, convince, disagree with everyone without wanting to rip there faces off... I probably will still reply to every post I disagree with though, just for old times sake 

30 ? f*ck me Stu ,you will soon be playing Golf  Welcome back lad

Here is a thought ,Play Toure and Sakho as CB ,move Agger to DM instead of Lucas ,only Concern is Daniel Physics but it's not as if Lucas is a world beater. This internal change ,gives you 2 hammers in the CB position that no one would Fck with and a DM which knows how to defend but can also take the ball and drive it effectively forward.

Makes Sense?

Ive often thought Agger would make a good DM

only me » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:40 pm wrote:Here is a thought ,Play Toure and Sakho as CB ,move Agger to DM instead of Lucas ,only Concern is Daniel Physics but it's not as if Lucas is a world beater. This internal change ,gives you 2 hammers in the CB position that no one would Fck with and a DM which knows how to defend but can also take the ball and drive it effectively forward.

Makes Sense?

Dagger is wayyyyy to one footed to be able to play any further up the pitch.  The lad nearly shlts himself anytime he has to even think about playing a ball with his right foot.

The Good Yank » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:47 pm wrote:

only me » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:40 pm wrote:Here is a thought ,Play Toure and Sakho as CB ,move Agger to DM instead of Lucas ,only Concern is Daniel Physics but it's not as if Lucas is a world beater. This internal change ,gives you 2 hammers in the CB position that no one would Fck with and a DM which knows how to defend but can also take the ball and drive it effectively forward.

Makes Sense?

Dagger is wayyyyy to one footed to be able to play any further up the pitch.  The lad nearly shlts himself anytime he has to even think about playing a ball with his right foot.

Doesn't make Sense...In that case wouldn't you want Dagger even further from the goal line? the further he loses the ball from the box the less chance we would concede...But anyway question is will he be a better solution then Lucas? We have more then enough CB's to allow some flexibility and risk taking. It's pretty obvious our MD is pretty average (especially when Gerrard takes a day off).

Worth a shot in my opinion.

My main gripe with Lucas is his anticipation and positioning. Against United, I lost count of how many balls the Scum cleared to "nowhere" for the ball to end up in their possession. Towards the end of the game, if we're pushed up, we NEED a player who can turn the 50/50 ball into our posession. If this dosent happen, players such as Gerrard who has already put in a shift needs to be legging it back behind the ball again. Lucas simply dosent have the aggression or determination to play the role if we want a top four finish.

Lucas, for me, is an optical illusion. Much like Allen with his high pass completion ratio, Lucas seems to win the snazzy challenges, leaving people blind to the countless times he's out of position, or flat footed, causing him to foul.

On top of that is his habit of picking up a yellow most games. We need a young lad who can take advantage of Lucas' suspensions and say "tough luck lad. My spot now"

I really believe Lucas is a second grade DM.

Lucas, Allen, not good enough. Gerrard ageing and unreliable over 38 game season to still be consistent, after doing it for so many years. Coutinho, needs to improve. Hendo, I think he will improve, but needs to score more goals.

We needed two world class midfielders in the window and didn't get any.

only me » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:53 pm wrote:

The Good Yank » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:47 pm wrote:

only me » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:40 pm wrote:Here is a thought ,Play Toure and Sakho as CB ,move Agger to DM instead of Lucas ,only Concern is Daniel Physics but it's not as if Lucas is a world beater. This internal change ,gives you 2 hammers in the CB position that no one would Fck with and a DM which knows how to defend but can also take the ball and drive it effectively forward.

Makes Sense?

Dagger is wayyyyy to one footed to be able to play any further up the pitch.  The lad nearly shlts himself anytime he has to even think about playing a ball with his right foot.

Doesn't make Sense...In that case wouldn't you want Dagger even further from the goal line? the further he loses the ball from the box the less chance we would concede...But anyway question is will he be a better solution then Lucas? We have more then enough CB's to allow some flexibility and risk taking. It's pretty obvious our MD is pretty average (especially when Gerrard takes a day off).

Worth a shot in my opinion.

Mate, you're talking about putting a square peg in a round hole. Sorry but Agger is not, never has been and never will be a centre mid.

StuYesThatStu » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:15 pm wrote:

I don't buy all this champions league arguement either. There are always good players around that aren't in that and would love to play for a club of Liverpool's size. Its about being good enough to find them.

I can think of alot players who would improve our side at the minute who aren't in the champions league.

Ben Arfa from Newcastle Utd for one. good player.
Van Der Vaart.
and a host of others.

[/quote]. Mate, you're talking about putting a square peg in a round hole. Sorry but Agger is not, never has been and never will be a centre mid.[/quote]

Care to explain why? And again please compare to our existing DM and not to a future candidate or signing.

I dont think Agger is set up for a DM - it takes a totally different type of mobility and strength. The fitness levels are massively different due to the amount of ground that is covered plus the anticipation. Agger is a damn fine cb lets leave him there . Ilori on the other hand has played there and has the attirubutes.

to be fair to our CM`s whenever the ball has been played up to the likes of aspas (and lately coutinho) it`s just not sticking, we are losing possession up front very cheaply (and almost as soon as we get it) so the games are very to and fro.
as a consequence we are doing a hell of a lot of pressing trying to get the ball back which is very tiring, especially when you are gerrards age.
when luis comes back and gerrard and coutinho gradually play themselves into form i think we`ll keep the ball better which should help us control games a bit more and conserve our energy a bit more.
it`s a great sign that we are top of the league when we are clearly not firing on all cylinders.