Liverpool FC Forum

Well, I've said a million times and I'd say it again.
American owners are not the way forward. They only care about one thing, and it sure isn't the football.
So far  the window had been extremly underwhelming. We are trying to get back into the top 4 and are breaking even on transfers and the only rumors
are about our best player leaving.

And why bring up Arsenal, when it is a big exception to the rule, that you have to spend big to get there?

There are so many factors why Arsenal have so far survived.

1. Arsenal and Wenger was, until Chelski, City and Spurs came up, a perennial title contender. And went unbeaten in 03/04. They spent pretty well until then. Which means they started this profit cycle at the top, not from 7th.
2. Wenger. Only he HAD that eye for gems before everyone else started vaccuming the world for talents. But he was 1st getting players like Fabregas, VP etc at a young age.
But now he has lost that edge as there are too many scouts and clubs looking.
3. Arsenal have really no other ambition than to just tread water, staying on 4th without challenging. And as we said when we were in the top 4. it is much easier to be up there until you fall out of it.
So much harder to get back in it.

Kenny Kan » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:27 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:18 am wrote:Dortmund don't play in the prem - you can't use them as a guiding light when they play in a totally different league.
Unless you can highlight someone in the prem that has done what Dortmund have - answer - no one

Arsenal for years bought quality players when needed and then relied on a couple of players to keep them up - when those players started to leave they then started to actually spend some money - since Fabregas left then RvP and Nasri etc they have had to spend money - £100mil in the last two years - it was helped by them being able to sell players for high prices. Wenger himself realises he needs to improve his team and spend big on players hence why he is trying to spend over £40mil on one player. Arsenal realise you have to spend that money to stay in the CL let alone get back into it. Spurs it looks like are going to push their spending as well to get into the CL

You name me a team that has gone from the lower places to the CL regulalry without spending money - in this country where it matters to us.

You hate being a Liverpool supporter, yet blow smoke up Arsenal's ar.se for spending money when SCS has already shown you they don't! I believe as previously stated with that current trend they will drop out.

Arsenal send 8M on players like Podolski - buys and prices you moan about. Wenger is renowned for finding cheap gems, another policy you hate. You change your argument to suit and it's full of holes and contradictions.

In your words regarding Liverpool, until Arsenal actually sign a player for 40 million, I'll see it when I believe they are actually willing to do that - because they have failed miserably so far this summer.

You speak to Arsenal supporters and they are skeptical the club will land a marquee signing. They fully expect this transfer window to culminate in another young french starlet no one has ever heard of.

One other point I do want to pick you up on Benny. You say that

the level of spending in recent seasons has been the managers personal choice as opposed to owners putting the shackles on

I disagree that Wenger has chosen to be frugal in the transfer market, I believe most of it has been driven by the high cost of the stadium and recouping the investment quickly. However say for arguments sake Wenger has chosen this transfer policy. What if our own transfer policy is being driven by Rodgers, at least fully supportive of? When does he get your hand holding support that Wenger gets?

He gets it when his tactics and transfer policy gets us into the CL at the very least.

At the end of the day the results are the judge.

Benny The Noon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:46 am wrote:He gets it when his tactics and transfer policy gets us into the CL at the very least.

At the end of the day the results are the judge.

Whatever happened to extending the opportunity every new player gets when they put on the shirt to prove their worth, to the manager?

Despite clearly not meeting your ridiculously high standards of achievement, Rodgers has made an improvement to our league performance. An improvement that the vast majority of us see increasing this season and next, even with a conservative transfer policy.

Yes BR moved us forward one place. We reached the lofty heights of 7th - let the celebrations begin - that sort of position wasnt good enough for Rafa or Woy or Kenny and they were criticised for it with demands for them to be sacked - now it appears its acceptable - the owners appear to accept now and it seems some fans accept it. Sorry but I don't and I expect a lot better in the coming season from the club and the manager but I know it's not going to happen because we are showing the ambition of a mid table club in everything we do. Not good enough.

shame you can't answer anything in a manner that doesn't show you up as the sarcastic imp you are though.

What SCS has just said is spot on, we all can see the improvement . So it was only one place up in the league, nothing to write home about I agree but just respond , cut the sarcastic digs

...people may even start to converse in a manner you deem acceptable. but thats an example of why you get up most peoples nose. just saying.

Benny The Noon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:44 pm wrote:Yes BR moved us forward one place. We reached the lofty heights of 7th - let the celebrations begin - that sort of position wasnt good enough for Rafa or Woy or Kenny and they were criticised for it with demands for them to be sacked - now it appears its acceptable - the owners appear to accept now and it seems some fans accept it. Sorry but I don't and I expect a lot better in the coming season from the club and the manager but I know it's not going to happen because we are showing the ambition of a mid table club in everything we do. Not good enough.

Again your myopic point of view comes to the surface again.

You proved my point, you have ridiculously high threshold of acceptability.

Let's put this in perspective, none of us would be happy with last season if Rodgers had been 3 years into a 5 year plan but it was his first season FFS. He neither inherited a squad that was trained in his philosophy or equipped in personnel to achieve it. That warrants time, the exact same time we afforded Gerard Houllier and the exact same time we afforded Benitez.

Before you try and twist things, let's not forget Benitez inherited a squad who already qualified for the CL through time and effort put in by the Houllier years, many seasons of work to achieve CL qualification. Let's also not forget if it was not for a 11th hour change in the CL qualification rules, that allowed the winner to qualify despite their league finish position, we would not have qualified for the CL in Benitez' first season. Such is the difficulty of changing a team's playing philosophy/style and personnel to suit the style, and maintain a high enough level of performance to maintain a CL league position.

With your attitude both Houllier and Benitez would have been sacked for unacceptable league performance after their first season.

When have I claimed BR should be sacked ?

Plenty didnt mind demanding Kenny go after one full season despite winning a trophy - dont even compare Rafa's first season with BR's. Rafa was left with a poor squad that had also lost his only quality striker. Rafa then spent about £20mil but bought quality - won the CL and then led us through our most fruitful period in the last 20 years, even Rafa's first season was better than BRs . BR inherited a squad that got to two cup finals and us into Europe. BR then spent close to £30mil whilst removing the club of its expirence - that was BR's choice. Last season wasnt acceptable no matter how many years into a plan he is - because when we don't have an acceptable season this season then we will need to find someone who can make us work and not someone who has achieved virtually nothing as a manager. No top club would have touched BR as their manager and if he doesnt deliver this season then he will need to be replaced. But he is getting more of a free ride than our previous two managers by a long way.

The best managers make things work with what they have got to work with - that's what Rafa did with a squad that was ripped apart as he arrived - the best managers adapt to the players. BR has done nothing yet to show he has the adaptability or managerial skill to achieve what our club needs - if he can't move away from his tactics when they clearly don't work then he won't be in the job long.

BR needs to earn his stripes and so far it isn't good enough - it maybe good enough for you but it isn't for me

that's quite a blinkered look on things really

Benny The Noon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:04 pm wrote:When have I claimed BR should be sacked ?

Plenty didnt mind demanding Kenny go after one full season despite winning a trophy - dont even compare Rafa's first season with BR's. Rafa was left with a poor squad that had also lost his only quality striker. Rafa then spent about £20mil but bought quality - won the CL and then led us through our most fruitful period in the last 20 years, even Rafa's first season was better than BRs . BR inherited a squad that got to two cup finals and us into Europe. BR then spent close to £30mil whilst removing the club of its expirence - that was BR's choice. Last season wasnt acceptable no matter how many years into a plan he is - because he we don't have an acceptable season this season then we will need to find someone who can make us work and not someone who has achieved virtually nothing as a manager. No top club would have touched BR as their manager and if he died by deliver this season then he will need to be replaced. But he is getting more of a free ride than our previous two managers by a long way.

The best managers make things work with what they have got to work with - that's what Rafa did with a squad that was ripped apart as he arrived - the best managers adapt to the players. BR has done nothing yet to show he has the adaptability or managerial skill to achieve what our club needs - if he can't move away from his tactics when they clearly don't work then he won't be in the job long.

BR needs to earn his stripes and so far it isn't good enough - it maybe good enough for you but it isn't for me

You are right, plenty didn't mind asking for Kenny's head after the first season. The same types as you this season with Rodgers.

How can you use the argument that Benitez inherited a poor squad with no real strike force when it was the very same squad that won the CL. It either was good or not good enough, across all competitions. Make your mind up.

I am using Benitez to illustrate the stupid positions you take. Benitez hit the ground running by winning the CL, without that win he would have failed to qualify for the following season CL, courtesy of his first season league position. His league performance in his first season was unacceptable by your own definition. But due to the amazing fanbase we are, both Houllier and Benitez got full backing from us to allow them to implement the system they wanted to implement. Its that loyal characteristic that makes an LFC supporter unique.

I've spent enough energy debunking your myths and untwisting your manipulative posts, I've come to realise that you probably realise your opinions and positions are flawed but pride prevents you admitting to it. No doubt if Rodgers is a success you'll go missing.

I don't see any manager ever been a success at this club until we are able to financially compete.  At the moment, that doesn't appear to be the case. 

We don't necessarily have to do a City / Chelsea.  But we need to be spending a bit more than we currently are.  This has sadly been the case for 10+ years now.

SouthCoastShankly » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:26 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:04 pm wrote:When have I claimed BR should be sacked ?

Plenty didnt mind demanding Kenny go after one full season despite winning a trophy - dont even compare Rafa's first season with BR's. Rafa was left with a poor squad that had also lost his only quality striker. Rafa then spent about £20mil but bought quality - won the CL and then led us through our most fruitful period in the last 20 years, even Rafa's first season was better than BRs . BR inherited a squad that got to two cup finals and us into Europe. BR then spent close to £30mil whilst removing the club of its expirence - that was BR's choice. Last season wasnt acceptable no matter how many years into a plan he is - because he we don't have an acceptable season this season then we will need to find someone who can make us work and not someone who has achieved virtually nothing as a manager. No top club would have touched BR as their manager and if he died by deliver this season then he will need to be replaced. But he is getting more of a free ride than our previous two managers by a long way.

The best managers make things work with what they have got to work with - that's what Rafa did with a squad that was ripped apart as he arrived - the best managers adapt to the players. BR has done nothing yet to show he has the adaptability or managerial skill to achieve what our club needs - if he can't move away from his tactics when they clearly don't work then he won't be in the job long.

BR needs to earn his stripes and so far it isn't good enough - it maybe good enough for you but it isn't for me

You are right, plenty didn't mind asking for Kenny's head after the first season. The same types as you this season with Rodgers.

I haven't asked for his head

How can you use the argument that Benitez inherited a poor squad with no real strike force when it was the very same squad that won the CL. It either was good or not good enough, across all competitions. Make your mind up.

Why do you think we went on to win the CL ? Because Rafa first spent his money well by buying players like Xabi and Garcia - something BR didn't - he then tailored his tactics to suit the players he was left with , he used his managerial ability to figure out which tactics worked against which team and which ones suited the players we had at the time - he moved Gerrard to  get the best out of him . BR has stuck to his tactics even if they don't suit the players we have and tried to force square pegs into round holes - he hasn't been able to adapt to the opposition he is facing and adapt to the player we have

I am using Benitez to illustrate the stupid positions you take. Benitez hit the ground running by winning the CL, without that win he would have failed to qualify for the following season CL, courtesy of his first season league position. His league performance in his first season was unacceptable by your own definition. But due to the amazing fanbase we are, both Houllier and Benitez got full backing from us to allow them to implement the system they wanted to implement. Its that loyal characteristic that makes an LFC supporter unique.

In Rafas first season the league finish was unacceptable but the season was a success because he won the greatest club trophy in the game - even though they were trying to implement their own systems they were still finding success. BRs first league season was unacceptable , his cup efforts were unacceptable so the season overall was unacceptable - if BR had found success in either of the cups then the season would have been a success.

I've spent enough energy debunking your myths and untwisting your manipulative posts, I've come to realise that you probably realise your opinions and positions are flawed but pride prevents you admitting to it. No doubt if Rodgers is a success you'll go missing.

You haven't debunked any myths but I'm still waiting for you to show me when someone in the prem has done what Dortmund did or have managed to get into the CL from the lower places without spending a lot of money.

If Rodgers is a success I won't have gone missing anywhere - will be right here. But if as I expect the managers and the owners plan falls flat on its face because its pure fantasy then I wonder where you will be- still clinging onto their dream no doubt.

jacdaniel » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:42 pm wrote:I don't see any manager ever been a success at this club until we are able to financially compete.  At the moment, that doesn't appear to be the case. 

We don't necessarily have to do a City / Chelsea.  But we need to be spending a bit more than we currently are.  This has sadly been the case for 10+ years now.

We have a big turnover - think its 6th in Europe - better than most CL clubs.

We won't be able to financially compete with these owners - their wallets are shut for us

Benny The Noon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:42 pm wrote:

jacdaniel » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:42 pm wrote:I don't see any manager ever been a success at this club until we are able to financially compete.  At the moment, that doesn't appear to be the case. 

We don't necessarily have to do a City / Chelsea.  But we need to be spending a bit more than we currently are.  This has sadly been the case for 10+ years now.

We have a big turnover - think its 6th in Europe - better than most CL clubs.

We won't be able to financially compete with these owners - their wallets are shut for us

Looks that way mate. I cant remember a summer as quiet as this one, we arent even being linked to players.

Rush Job » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:55 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:42 pm wrote:

jacdaniel » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:42 pm wrote:I don't see any manager ever been a success at this club until we are able to financially compete.  At the moment, that doesn't appear to be the case. 

We don't necessarily have to do a City / Chelsea.  But we need to be spending a bit more than we currently are.  This has sadly been the case for 10+ years now.

We have a big turnover - think its 6th in Europe - better than most CL clubs.

We won't be able to financially compete with these owners - their wallets are shut for us

Looks that way mate. I cant remember a summer as quiet as this one, we arent even being linked to players.

Its worrying - we it appears went for Mhyktarian but how serious were we and surely we must have had a back up to him - same with Pappadolous - if he is going to be too expensive for them where is their back up ?