Liverpool FC Forum

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:55 pm wrote:The player doesn't have to be a destroyer - just look at all the teams that win and they have players in their team that add some power and physical presence - whether that be at CB or in the midfield or even up front - we though don't - even our CB's are supposed to be more "ball playing" as opposed to dominating the opposition players.

Our squad is very technical and small but I don't think can handle a physical battle against teams like Stoke etc who will look to kick and fight - teams that will be in our faces and not giving us the space we want , teams that will come at us with big lumps . We couldn't handle players like Diame or Dembele or Toure over the last two seasons and when Carroll goes up against Agger and Toure he is going to have a field day.

Without that ingredient in the team then we will struggle ( IMO ) just like we did last season

I do agree to an extent with what your saying but just to ask, what games did we lose last season in which we were bullied out of it ?

West Ham , Oldham , West Brom , Stoke , Villa ,Southampton just a few off the top of my head where teams out fought us , bullied us , overrun the centre of the battle and beat us physically on the pitch and we couldn't combat it.

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:21 pm wrote:West Ham , Oldham , West Brom , Stoke , Villa ,Southampton just a few off the top of my head where teams out fought us , bullied us , overrun the centre of the battle and beat us physically on the pitch and we couldn't combat it.

We beat West Ham away and drew at home.
Oldham we played half a team of kids and played the giant Coates at centre half so that doesnt exactly stack up.
Villa and Southampton certainly did overrun us but did not in any way shape or form bully us.
Unless i am misinterpreting what you mean ?
The villa game we actually started very well and battered them for 20 minutes. We then did not score and got caught out on the counter 3 times. The midfield in that game i think had taken the win for granted and thought they could push on and dominate without worrying about any threat, they were wrong.
We were outplayed completely by the saints but that was in my opinion because we started with 2 in midfield and 4 attackers.
West Brom home or away ?
Stoke do bully most so are the exception to the rule.

your not saying benny is exaggerating slightly are you? surely not.

Ben Patrick » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:31 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:21 pm wrote:West Ham , Oldham , West Brom , Stoke , Villa ,Southampton just a few off the top of my head where teams out fought us , bullied us , overrun the centre of the battle and beat us physically on the pitch and we couldn't combat it.

We beat West Ham away and drew at home.
Oldham we played half a team of kids and played the giant Coates at centre half so that doesnt exactly stack up.
Villa and Southampton certainly did overrun us but did not in any way shape or form bully us.
Unless i am misinterpreting what you mean ?
The villa game we actually started very well and battered them for 20 minutes. We then did not score and got caught out on the counter 3 times. The midfield in that game i think had taken the win for granted and thought they could push on and dominate without worrying about any threat, they were wrong.
We were outplayed completely by the saints but that was in my opinion because we started with 2 in midfield and 4 attackers.
West Brom home or away ?
Stoke do bully most so are the exception to the rule.

Bully , overrun , which ever word you want to use to describe us having no control in the middle of the park because we were denied space and were hassled and pressured with no one to combat that - Diame for West Ham against us was supreme until he went of injured ( then we went on and got back into the game ) .

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:48 pm wrote:

Ben Patrick » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:31 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:21 pm wrote:West Ham , Oldham , West Brom , Stoke , Villa ,Southampton just a few off the top of my head where teams out fought us , bullied us , overrun the centre of the battle and beat us physically on the pitch and we couldn't combat it.

We beat West Ham away and drew at home.
Oldham we played half a team of kids and played the giant Coates at centre half so that doesnt exactly stack up.
Villa and Southampton certainly did overrun us but did not in any way shape or form bully us.
Unless i am misinterpreting what you mean ?
The villa game we actually started very well and battered them for 20 minutes. We then did not score and got caught out on the counter 3 times. The midfield in that game i think had taken the win for granted and thought they could push on and dominate without worrying about any threat, they were wrong.
We were outplayed completely by the saints but that was in my opinion because we started with 2 in midfield and 4 attackers.
West Brom home or away ?
Stoke do bully most so are the exception to the rule.

Bully , overrun , which ever word you want to use to describe us having no control in the middle of the park because we were denied space and were hassled and pressured with no one to combat that - Diame for West Ham against us was supreme until he went of injured ( then we went on and got back into the game ) .

Rodgers was asked the defensive midfield question on his 30 minute appearance on TAW. He mentioned that he doesn't believe that we need a big muscle man to be an enforcer. He wants more fight, grit and strength from his players to press more, to get at the opposition more, harry them.... well to do exactly what you mention above deny space, hassle and pressurise the opposition. You don't have to be a Toure/mash/diame to do that, anyone can if they have the right attitude and determination (and can tackle of course)

But a Toure/Diame etc that thing comes naturally to them. They are also great footballers in their own right.

At Swansea he didnt have one as well and they struggled against the physical teams - one of the first players Laudrup got in was De Guzman - a gritty battling player who wasnt afraid to get stuck in - Swansea immediatly improved as a team.

Our team don't have that mentality - he prob believes that Allen and Lucas will provide it but again it's not their natural game. He is very focused on these small technical players and we will have a team full of them with no variety or anything to change the style dependent on the game and the opposition. It's great having a vision but when it doesn't work he needs to be able to adapt his tactics to combat what is in front of him - its great playing pretty tappy football - but we need to ensure we can adapt. I think that will be our problem this season. Players like Allen are just going to get swiped away - Coutinho will get battered with no protection. And teams will just out muscle us in the middle.

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:42 pm wrote:Our team don't have that mentality

That's what he thinks he can change. Through man management, instilling belief, confidence or whatever. Lucas has it and it is part of his game. On form is does it perfectly. You don't have to be big and strong to outmuscle a midfield, you need to be quick, snappy and constantly pressing, getting the ball back then keeping it.

It is something we lacked last season, but with better pressing, mental attitude, etc we can outmuscle "physical" teams. Rodgers also used the example of Stirling "bullying" Skrtel in training. If you've got the determination and the attitude as well as a certain amount of skill our midfield as it stands can do it

Redman in wales » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:10 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:42 pm wrote:Our team don't have that mentality

That's what he thinks he can change. Through man management, instilling belief, confidence or whatever. Lucas has it and it is part of his game. On form is does it perfectly. You don't have to be big and strong to outmuscle a midfield, you need to be quick, snappy and constantly pressing, getting the ball back then keeping it.

It is something we lacked last season, but with better pressing, mental attitude, etc we can outmuscle "physical" teams. Rodgers also used the example of Stirling "bullying" Skrtel in training. If you've got the determination and the attitude as well as a certain amount of skill our midfield as it stands can do it

But heard it all last summer from him though - BR has a fondness for saying a lot of words - the problem so far is the actions dont match the words he keeps saying. He has talked a great game ill give him that.

I dont think we need anything in central midfield as things stand. I'd be more inclined to look at improving our CB and wide midfield options before spending more cash on players who are likely to come and sit on the bench because they arent as good as the ones we have atm.

aCe' » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:38 pm wrote:I dont think we need anything in central midfield as things stand. I'd be more inclined to look at improving our CB and wide midfield options before spending more cash on players who are likely to come and sit on the bench because they arent as good as the ones we have atm.

The problem is we have just bought one CB and two wide options in the summer already.

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:19 pm wrote:

Redman in wales » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:10 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:42 pm wrote:Our team don't have that mentality

That's what he thinks he can change. Through man management, instilling belief, confidence or whatever. Lucas has it and it is part of his game. On form is does it perfectly. You don't have to be big and strong to outmuscle a midfield, you need to be quick, snappy and constantly pressing, getting the ball back then keeping it.

It is something we lacked last season, but with better pressing, mental attitude, etc we can outmuscle "physical" teams. Rodgers also used the example of Stirling "bullying" Skrtel in training. If you've got the determination and the attitude as well as a certain amount of skill our midfield as it stands can do it

But heard it all last summer from him though - BR has a fondness for saying a lot of words - the problem so far is the actions dont match the words he keeps saying. He has talked a great game ill give him that.

Last summer he hadn't managed a single league game at Liverpool so now with that extra knowledge and experience, he's more aware of his team and what he needs. I don't understand your statement so far is the actions dont match the words he keeps saying. Can you elaborate?

BR in the last 12 months has talked a lot but the actions don't match the words he has spoken

Take the two recent issues in regards Pepe and new signings

One minute he is saying that Pepe and Mignolet will fight out for number one and provide competition for each - next minute he is leaving on loan because he is too expensive to sit on the bench

Then he says that the new signings are just squad fillers when the new signings believe they are here for first team !

You can go through all the interviews throughout the year ( a twitter account has ) and look at the amount of talk he has actually done over the last 12 months - I actually thought he was starting to be quiet but has started again

Quit talking the talk and start getting the results - no manner of talk will disguise anything when we come 7/6 th again this season.

Want to see the club actually show they are bloody serious about going for the CL - the last time I saw something from the club to show us that was when we bought Suarez ! Since then it's been all talk but actions and results that just shout out mid table.

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:41 pm wrote:

aCe' » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:38 pm wrote:I dont think we need anything in central midfield as things stand. I'd be more inclined to look at improving our CB and wide midfield options before spending more cash on players who are likely to come and sit on the bench because they arent as good as the ones we have atm.

The problem is we have just bought one CB and two wide options in the summer already.

Kolo toure is a backup option at best. Not sure about the wide options you speak of but as far as I'm concerned, Aspas and L.Alberto are'nt wide players by any stretch.

aCe' » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:52 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:41 pm wrote:

aCe' » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:38 pm wrote:I dont think we need anything in central midfield as things stand. I'd be more inclined to look at improving our CB and wide midfield options before spending more cash on players who are likely to come and sit on the bench because they arent as good as the ones we have atm.

The problem is we have just bought one CB and two wide options in the summer already.

Kolo toure is a backup option at best. Not sure about the wide options you speak of but as far as I'm concerned, Aspas and L.Alberto are'nt wide players by any stretch.

Toure seems to believe he is more than back up - and I expect him to start the season alongside Agger

If Alberto isn't a wide player what is he ? Same with Aspas ?