Liverpool FC Forum

Well, it seems long gone are the days when a balaclava and shotgun would suffice; today you only need to wear a suit and get it written up as a levy for it to be, eh, a special dispensation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-2181999

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/24/germany-stands-firm-over-cyprus

The European North/South divide keeps widening, thanks to the "common currency".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... -bank-levy

This could get interesting especially as the Russians have billions tied up in bank accounts and investments in an over bloated Cypriot banking system.

I think German taxpayers have had enough of bailing out these unregulated states (even though due diligence on Cyprus's accounts are supposed to be undertaken before accession to the EZ - go figure?), and as it is an election year in Germany Merkel & co I believe will be prepared to let Cyprus leave the EZ.

As usual, greedy bankers and politicians somehow wriggle from their immoral behaviour and are able to pass state induced theft onto the average Joe.

It's interesting because many EU commentators say the only way forward is to create a two tier euro currency. One for the volatile states and the other for the stable states.

Despite the disdain for Tories here you have to admit that the decision not to join the euro all those years back was correct.

I remember them days, 'Britain would be doomed without the Euro', they said.

Mind you, Britain's position now (since it's become a "services" industry and a Tony Blair - 'knowledge base' industry', is just as, if not more precarious than the PIIGS & France.

To put the Great back into Britain again, she needs to go back to inventing and industry - bring back manufacturing, less importing and more exporting.

I think they should eject all countries from the Euro that shouldn't have been in there in the first place, if I remember there were very strict requirements when joining the euro with regards to debt as a % of GDP, inflation etc etc but all of this was brushed aside by stupid politicians who fudged the figures to create the first phase of a federal state, Germany has to shoulder a lot of the blame as they had warnings as to what happens when you have to support weaker economies when Germany unified after the wall came down but all that was ignored for political gain. The Euro is not a bad idea but you cannot have financial union without political union, they did it the wrong way round. Europes in a mess, they should stop flapping around and trying to stick plasters on a serious hemorrhage. the only option is the weaker countries need to be cast off, they will survive and probably come back stronger otherwise they will be poorer and weaker for years, looking for handouts and just where the richer countries want them.

Cyprus has been harbouring Russian corruption and laundering Russian mafia money for decades.  Cyprus trying to go "legit" was always going to end in tears.

Well, according to many Britain is Cayman Islands on steroids.

Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 am wrote:I remember them days, 'Britain would be doomed without the Euro', they said.

Mind you, Britain's position now (since it's become a "services" industry and a Tony Blair - 'knowledge base' industry', is just as, if not more precarious than the PIIGS & France.

To put the Great back into Britain again, she needs to go back to inventing and industry - bring back manufacturing, less importing and more exporting.

Being an engineer myself, I couldn't agree more, all governments over the past 40 years have been killing off our industry, they only want service industry or finance, a prime example in recent history is Blairs treatment of Rover, they could have nationalised or subsidised it to get back on its feet (didn't have a billion to spare but soon found 50 billion to give the banks) but instead gave it to the Chinese who boxed it up and took it to China and this government was all set to sell off BAE to the Germans and the French, however, the only people who want to work in manufacturing are immigrants, the school leavers of today either go on benefits or want to go to uni and walk into a high paid office job.

Boocity » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:05 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 am wrote:I remember them days, 'Britain would be doomed without the Euro', they said.

Mind you, Britain's position now (since it's become a "services" industry and a Tony Blair - 'knowledge base' industry', is just as, if not more precarious than the PIIGS & France.

To put the Great back into Britain again, she needs to go back to inventing and industry - bring back manufacturing, less importing and more exporting.

Being an engineer myself, I couldn't agree more, all governments over the past 40 years have been killing off our industry, they only want service industry or finance, a prime example in recent history is Blairs treatment of Rover, they could have nationalised or subsidised it to get back on its feet (didn't have a billion to spare but soon found 50 billion to give the banks) but instead gave it to the Chinese who boxed it up and took it to China and this government was all set to sell off BAE to the Germans and the French, however, the only people who want to work in manufacturing are immigrants, the school leavers of today either go on benefits or want to go to uni and walk into a high paid office job.

The thing is, manufacturing and the like has got to be competitive & innovative. And in an age when things are made far more cheaper in countries like China and India it gets tough. If it's not competitive governments won't want to nationlise or even subsidise them year in year out. Why should they subsidise companies who run at a loss? That's partly what happened during the 60's, 70's and even 80's when strong Unions equally and as much culpably brought such industries to their knees.

It's a catch 22 but it would be nice for once to see a government seriously try and kick start such growth through manufacturing rather than throwing it all at the banks at the taxpayers expense.

I think companies like Aston Martin who are still partially British owned (I think) or any other niche market car manufacture (Rolls Royce, Jag) could help save this specific industry in Britain by (excuse the pun) steering away from solely producing elitist-fat-cat automobiles and produce something on a mass scale that the average Brit/European could drive. They wouldn't have to be expensive, like a Nissan Micra for e.g but with an AM badge on them they'd sell like hotcakes (this may devalue the Aston range somewhat but profits are there to be made) and it's something like this that could boost growth in Britain which is badly needed.

it was thatcher who sold british industry down the river, she wanted the country to be based around the financial and service sectors because she knew those 2 industries wouldnt be as bolshy or as big a threat to the establishment as the old traditional heavy industries. when the coal miners basically brought down the conservative government of 1974 it sent shock waves through establishment ranks and her answer to that was to stab her own country in the back.
whenever the IMF get their claws into some poor third world country the first thing they do is make them nationalise all their industries/infastructure and then bring in anti trade union legislation but at least those tin pot leaders are forced to do that with a financial gun to their head, thatcher did it to her own country with glee to f##k over the working classes.
she wrote off more than £15 billion in debt and paid hundreds of millions to advisors to sell off the likes of british telecom, the british gas corporation, the british national oil corporation, british airways, british airports authority, british aerospace, british shipbuilders, british steel, water supply, british transport docks board, british water board, national freight company, enterprise oil, british rail, electricity industry etc etc etc.
she sold the infastructure of one of the greatest nations on earth, built up over hundreds of years by talented engineers and hard working men to the financial markets on the cheap, and left the weakest of her own people (the elderly, disabled, cancer sufferers etc) at the mercy of the speculators.

Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 am wrote:I remember them days, 'Britain would be doomed without the Euro', they said.

Mind you, Britain's position now (since it's become a "services" industry and a Tony Blair - 'knowledge base' industry', is just as, if not more precarious than the PIIGS & France.

To put the Great back into Britain again, she needs to go back to inventing and industry - bring back manufacturing, less importing and more exporting.

I fully agree however manufacturing will never return on a large scale. The reality of the matter is that regardless of the efforts the government put in to creating an attractive business environment, manufacturing just cannot survive in a country where the hourly pay rate is nearly 10 times that of other less developed nations. There is no room for sentiment in business, with all the good motives a business cannot survive paying production workers enormously more than his direct competitor is.

I am a product manager and have to manage development and production teams on a daily basis. To give you an insight on the disparity of the hourly costs of a software development engineer in UK and the equivalent in India. My company is a large global company employing over 10000 people, they have a stadard overhead rate of £175 per hour for a UK engineer, Indian overheads are £35 per hour for the exact same role.

UK overheads are calculated by the burden the company incurs by employing that role, this includes pensions, building charges (rent, utilities, etc), employee benefits, etc. The reality is that the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China for those who aren't familiar) nations just don't incurs the same levels of overhead, this combined with the far lower cost of living and associated salaries creates a unbeatable market for production workers.

What I have found in my industry (Industrial Automation) is the UK is becoming the hub for design and innovation, the harsh reality is we are far to expensive for large scale production. The only production I have seen in this country is where the process is complex and creates bespoke product that cannot be replicated easily or cheaply outside of the UK.

Benny The Noon » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:25 am wrote:Cyprus has been harbouring Russian corruption and laundering Russian mafia money for decades.  Cyprus trying to go "legit" was always going to end in tears.

This is correct. But it's not just Russian, Cyprus bank is a heaven for money laundering.

damjan193 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:19 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:25 am wrote:Cyprus has been harbouring Russian corruption and laundering Russian mafia money for decades.  Cyprus trying to go "legit" was always going to end in tears.

This is correct. But it's not just Russian, Cyprus bank is a heaven for money laundering.

The last thing you need in Cyprus is a fur coat

Yet Cyprus has loads of them , always seemed to be a Ferrari or Lamborghini parked outside them
!

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:25 pm wrote:it was thatcher who sold british industry down the river, she wanted the country to be based around the financial and service sectors because she knew those 2 industries wouldnt be as bolshy or as big a threat to the establishment as the old traditional heavy industries. when the coal miners basically brought down the conservative government of 1974 it sent shock waves through establishment ranks and her answer to that was to stab her own country in the back.
whenever the IMF get their claws into some poor third world country the first thing they do is make them nationalise all their industries/infastructure and then bring in anti trade union legislation but at least those tin pot leaders are forced to do that with a financial gun to their head, thatcher did it to her own country with glee to f##k over the working classes.
she wrote off more than £15 billion in debt and paid hundreds of millions to advisors to sell off the likes of british telecom, the british gas corporation, the british national oil corporation, british airways, british airports authority, british aerospace, british shipbuilders, british steel, water supply, british transport docks board, british water board, national freight company, enterprise oil, british rail, electricity industry etc etc etc.
she sold the infastructure of one of the greatest nations on earth, built up over hundreds of years by talented engineers and hard working men to the financial markets on the cheap, and left the weakest of her own people (the elderly, disabled, cancer sufferers etc) at the mercy of the speculators.

I partially agree but your view is far to biased with your hatred of Thatcher, we were our own worse enemy in the 70's, if the unions hadn't done their best to destroy any faith in British industry and products coupled with appalling backward looking management then much of our manufacturing industry may have have survived in some form as in Germany.

SouthCoastShankly » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:47 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 am wrote:I remember them days, 'Britain would be doomed without the Euro', they said.

Mind you, Britain's position now (since it's become a "services" industry and a Tony Blair - 'knowledge base' industry', is just as, if not more precarious than the PIIGS & France.

To put the Great back into Britain again, she needs to go back to inventing and industry - bring back manufacturing, less importing and more exporting.

I fully agree however manufacturing will never return on a large scale. The reality of the matter is that regardless of the efforts the government put in to creating an attractive business environment, manufacturing just cannot survive in a country where the hourly pay rate is nearly 10 times that of other less developed nations. There is no room for sentiment in business, with all the good motives a business cannot survive paying production workers enormously more than his direct competitor is.

I am a product manager and have to manage development and production teams on a daily basis. To give you an insight on the disparity of the hourly costs of a software development engineer in UK and the equivalent in India. My company is a large global company employing over 10000 people, they have a stadard overhead rate of £175 per hour for a UK engineer, Indian overheads are £35 per hour for the exact same role.

UK overheads are calculated by the burden the company incurs by employing that role, this includes pensions, building charges (rent, utilities, etc), employee benefits, etc. The reality is that the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China for those who aren't familiar) nations just don't incurs the same levels of overhead, this combined with the far lower cost of living and associated salaries creates a unbeatable market for production workers.

What I have found in my industry (Industrial Automation) is the UK is becoming the hub for design and innovation, the harsh reality is we are far to expensive for large scale production. The only production I have seen in this country is where the process is complex and creates bespoke product that cannot be replicated easily or cheaply outside of the UK.

Again I partially agree, I work for a company that has many manufacturing plants in the UK but they are medium scale and can command higher prices than low cost countries due to history, quality and higher specification but they are not mass production. However I believe last year(or the year before) we produced more cars in the UK than we have ever done before and our plants are the most productive in Europe, if Nissan etc can do it why couldn't a Britsh company.

Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:22 pm wrote:

Boocity » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:05 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 am wrote:I remember them days, 'Britain would be doomed without the Euro', they said.

Mind you, Britain's position now (since it's become a "services" industry and a Tony Blair - 'knowledge base' industry', is just as, if not more precarious than the PIIGS & France.

To put the Great back into Britain again, she needs to go back to inventing and industry - bring back manufacturing, less importing and more exporting.

Being an engineer myself, I couldn't agree more, all governments over the past 40 years have been killing off our industry, they only want service industry or finance, a prime example in recent history is Blairs treatment of Rover, they could have nationalised or subsidised it to get back on its feet (didn't have a billion to spare but soon found 50 billion to give the banks) but instead gave it to the Chinese who boxed it up and took it to China and this government was all set to sell off BAE to the Germans and the French, however, the only people who want to work in manufacturing are immigrants, the school leavers of today either go on benefits or want to go to uni and walk into a high paid office job.

The thing is, manufacturing and the like has got to be competitive & innovative. And in an age when things are made far more cheaper in countries like China and India it gets tough. If it's not competitive governments won't want to nationlise or even subsidise them year in year out. Why should they subsidise companies who run at a loss? That's partly what happened during the 60's, 70's and even 80's when strong Unions equally and as much culpably brought such industries to their knees.

It's a catch 22 but it would be nice for once to see a government seriously try and kick start such growth through manufacturing rather than throwing it all at the banks at the taxpayers expense.

I think companies like Aston Martin who are still partially British owned (I think) or any other niche market car manufacture (Rolls Royce, Jag) could help save this specific industry in Britain by (excuse the pun) steering away from solely producing elitist-fat-cat automobiles and produce something on a mass scale that the average Brit/European could drive. They wouldn't have to be expensive, like a Nissan Micra for e.g but with an AM badge on them they'd sell like hotcakes (this may devalue the Aston range somewhat but profits are there to be made) and it's something like this that could boost growth in Britain which is badly needed.

They will always shore up the financial industry the country depends too much on it at present, they are scared stiff of the City losing its position as the world's 2nd largest financial centre.