Liverpool FC Forum

They surely talked about fixing the ways we chose players but it wouldn't be done by them but the idiot that got us Carrol. Yes they talked about using statistics and the like in a much different way than others do transfer business. So they have to share some of the blame for it. Another concern was that they would only buy players with a resale value whatever the hell that means. If a players is good his value will increase it's as simple as that.

Kukilon » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:08 pm wrote:They surely talked about fixing the ways we chose players but it wouldn't be done by them but the idiot that got us Carrol. Yes they talked about using statistics and the like in a much different way than others do transfer business. So they have to share some of the blame for it. Another concern was that they would only buy players with a resale value whatever the hell that means. If a players is good his value will increase it's as simple as that.

FSG's entire strategy so far has been a failure in my eyes. We haven't really progressed much under them whatsoever. Since they have taken over the club has finished 6th, 8th and we could end up finishing in a similar position in May.

They want this club to be in the Champions League and yet have done nothing to ensure we get into the Champions League and I honestly cannot see us getting back into top four contention without serious investment. We're relying on an old relic, an inconsistent striker and a bunch of youngsters to get us back into the top four and it just won't happen.

I'm also not convinced with Rodgers's signings, Borini just hasn't done anything of note, and he wants Daniel Sturridge. He's signed a good winger in Assaidi, but doesn't play him. £12m for an inconsistent striker who isn't prolific by any stretch of the imagination seems like a chronic waste of money.

mart » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:20 pm wrote:
He is probably right as the moneyball nonsense was hyped up beyond belief around that time, partly because of the movie. There was a lot of talk about the stats of both players and staff like Comolli, and how much they had learned from Beane(?) or whatever the name of that stat guy is.

We used statistics to sign Jermaine Pennant. I remember him having the highest crossing ratio the season before we signed him when he was playing great football with Birmingham City.

Statistics are utterly useless, a manager should know which player will and will not work in his system irrespective of statistics.

Sturridge is a gut feeling buy.   Insh'allah........

Beggars cannot be choosy and Liverpool are beggars at the moment. I don't understand why so many of you guys are critical of Sturridge. True, he is not in the same calibre as Rush/Fowler but with his presence, I expect we will score more goals from the chances we've created. This lad cost less and IMO definitely better than 35 million overpriced Carroll.

alwayslfc » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:57 am wrote:Beggars cannot be choosy and Liverpool are beggars at the moment. I don't understand why so many of you guys are critical of Sturridge. True, he is not in the same calibre as Rush/Fowler but with his presence, I expect we will score more goals from the chances we've created. This lad cost less and IMO definitely better than 35 million overpriced Carroll.

one thing i`d give carroll was that he was a battler, even if he was playing $h1te he wouldnt throw in the towel.
last night we looked a beaten team even when there still was over half an hour to go.
the only player we had on the pitch last night that showed any kind of heart was suarez, pundits often accuse foreign players of not having any bottle or pride in the shirt well there was 6 england internationals in our team yesterday (gerrard, johnson, downing, shelvey, sterling and cole) and luis showed more desire to play for this club than the 6 of them put together.
people can talk about systems and philosophies until the cows come home but if you are not prepared to roll your sleeves up, graft hard and at the very least match the opposition in work rate and desire then you wont win anything in this country.
as much as we need to bring quality into the club we need to bring character in too, we need to bring players in that wont fold when the going gets tough or throw in the towel as soon as we go behind.
sturridge has the potential to be a top, top player, a few years ago he was widely regarded as the most exciting prospect in the country, unfortunately he is also a bit moody and i`m not sure we need that type of character at the club at the moment, we have enough players who give up as soon as the going gets tough as it is.
i`d have carroll back tomorrow if it was up to me, we need a bit of height and fight in our side, i`d much rather watch carroll roughing center halves up than watch our lightweight forwards getting constantly eased off the ball.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:41 pm wrote:

alwayslfc » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:57 am wrote:Beggars cannot be choosy and Liverpool are beggars at the moment. I don't understand why so many of you guys are critical of Sturridge. True, he is not in the same calibre as Rush/Fowler but with his presence, I expect we will score more goals from the chances we've created. This lad cost less and IMO definitely better than 35 million overpriced Carroll.

one thing i`d give carroll was that he was a battler, even if he was playing $h1te he wouldnt throw in the towel.
last night we looked a beaten team even when there still was over half an hour to go.
the only player we had on the pitch last night that showed any kind of heart was suarez, pundits often accuse foreign players of not having any bottle or pride in the shirt well there was 6 england internationals in our team yesterday (gerrard, johnson, downing, shelvey, sterling and cole) and luis showed more desire to play for this club than the 6 of them put together.
people can talk about systems and philosophies until the cows come home but if you are not prepared to roll your sleeves up, graft hard and at the very least match the opposition in work rate and desire then you wont win anything in this country.
as much as we need to bring quality into the club we need to bring character in too, we need to bring players in that wont fold when the going gets tough or throw in the towel as soon as we go behind.
sturridge has the potential to be a top, top player, a few years ago he was widely regarded as the most exciting prospect in the country, unfortunately he is also a bit moody and i`m not sure we need that type of character at the club at the moment, we have enough players who give up as soon as the going gets tough as it is.
i`d have carroll back tomorrow if it was up to me, we need a bit of height and fight in our side, i`d much rather watch carroll roughing center halves up than watch our lightweight forwards getting constantly eased off the ball.

Thank God! it's not up to you then... phew what a relieve...

After the Villa and Stoke results it is becoming increasingly difficult to keep the faith in either our owners or BR. The owners sanctioned a £35m spend on a player who had shown a degree of promise in 18 league games and so far has proved to be an incredible waste of money. If that wasn't bad enough the owners after a thoroughly bizarre selection process employ a manager who had had absolutely no top level experience but had shown promise with Swansea in the Premiership and did a lot better than most people expected.Two years previously BR was released by Reading after only 6 months as manager due to a string of poor results.His experience is very limited and Lawrenson went on record when BR got the Liverpool managers job that he was a massive gamble. Players have been bought based on successful statistics. For example Allen has a phenomenal pass completion rate but that doesn't actually show in the figures that most of his passes our either five yards backwards or sideways and that the lad is very lightweight.I could go on but I'm beginning to feel a tad suicidal !!!

The owners wouldn't have sanctioned £35M for Carroll if it was a normal pre-agreed valuation for that amount. It was far from normal but the late over inflated transfer of Torres resulted in a stroppy, past his best Torres being sold right at the end of the window and a promising young English international striker coming in along with £15M and a saving of perhaps £50K a week in wages. People's opinion on Carroll seems to vary but it wasn't such bad business as some people make out.

Allen wasn't bought on the success of his statistics. He was bought by a manager who worked with him for several years and knew he could play the system the manager was trying to introduce at his new club.

Do we really know enough about the selection process of our new manager to judge it as bizarre ? Rodgers has been coaching for about 20 years so his experience is far from limited, perhaps at the very top level but he probably has a lot more experience than Shankly who struggled for the first couple of years, old purple nose struggled for a lot longer than that.

A team will always struggle with a new system, especially when trying to do it with financial restraints imposed because of the mismanagement of the previous owners. It's no good reacting to individual performances or results, I realise that the half season position is not good enough but what would it look like if Dempsey and Sturridge had come in last summer as planned ?

Let's wait and see who we sign in January and where we finish in the league before judging the manager and owners.

The Owners might not be blamed for the money in which they have given the managers under their guidance, but they are to blame for lots of things.

They're the ones who hired Kenny Dalglish.

They're the ones who hired Damien Comolli.

They hid in Boston while the racism scandal surrounding Luis Suarez happened, leaving Dalglish and the club defenceless.

They sacked Dalglish after a poor league performance despite winning our first trophy in six years and an FA Cup final appearance and then turned around and said 'cups aren't important to us, we want Champions League football'.

They brought in a young, inexperienced manager as a replacement and offered him just £30m to spend on a squad that needs treble that amount of add much needed quality and depth to it.

The club couldn't even sign Clint Dempsey for £6m and subsequently we have one recognised striker all season-long.

They talk and talk about a new Stadium, yet nothing has happened and probably won't for many years to come.

They sign a Chinese-American to be our PR man and he ends up threatening to kill a supporter on Twitter.

Since FSG's arrival here, it's been one disaster after another, it's been failure to failure to more failure and rightly so that some supporters are starting to question whether or not these people actually know what they're doing.

They want CL football and yet have done nothing in their power to ensure this will happen. It wouldn't surprise me if at the end of the season, they bin Rodgers and try and sign Martinez or O'Neill or the next flavour of the month.

maguskwt » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:47 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:41 pm wrote:

alwayslfc » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:57 am wrote:Beggars cannot be choosy and Liverpool are beggars at the moment. I don't understand why so many of you guys are critical of Sturridge. True, he is not in the same calibre as Rush/Fowler but with his presence, I expect we will score more goals from the chances we've created. This lad cost less and IMO definitely better than 35 million overpriced Carroll.

one thing i`d give carroll was that he was a battler, even if he was playing $h1te he wouldnt throw in the towel.
last night we looked a beaten team even when there still was over half an hour to go.
the only player we had on the pitch last night that showed any kind of heart was suarez, pundits often accuse foreign players of not having any bottle or pride in the shirt well there was 6 england internationals in our team yesterday (gerrard, johnson, downing, shelvey, sterling and cole) and luis showed more desire to play for this club than the 6 of them put together.
people can talk about systems and philosophies until the cows come home but if you are not prepared to roll your sleeves up, graft hard and at the very least match the opposition in work rate and desire then you wont win anything in this country.
as much as we need to bring quality into the club we need to bring character in too, we need to bring players in that wont fold when the going gets tough or throw in the towel as soon as we go behind.
sturridge has the potential to be a top, top player, a few years ago he was widely regarded as the most exciting prospect in the country, unfortunately he is also a bit moody and i`m not sure we need that type of character at the club at the moment, we have enough players who give up as soon as the going gets tough as it is.
i`d have carroll back tomorrow if it was up to me, we need a bit of height and fight in our side, i`d much rather watch carroll roughing center halves up than watch our lightweight forwards getting constantly eased off the ball.

Thank God! it's not up to you then... phew what a relieve...

well i guess we are doing just fine now arent we, we have just had our worst start in over a century, we have spent the first half of the season in the bottom half of the table, we havent even beaten a side from the top half of the table yet and we`ve amassed our lowest points total at the halfway stage of the season since the 3 points for a win system was introduced back in 1981.
in the last few weeks we`ve been humiliated at home by the youngest side aston villa have fielded in the premiership era (with an average age of 23) and we`ve just been played off the park by a stoke team and whatsmore it`s the first time in 44 league games that stoke have managed to score more than two goals in a game.
we have conceded 30 goals in the league (we `only` conceded 40 in the whole of last season and that wasnt exactly a vintage year) and we`ve been knocked out of the league cup, played off the park and beaten 3-1 at home by swansea.
apart from that things are going great.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:41 am wrote:we have conceded 30 goals in the league.

We've conceded 26 goals in the league so far.

FSG have been shyte.

If results continue in this fashion Rodgers will be out and all this
bull about a long term plan torn up, mark my words.

As for the stadium the will do f@ck all on that score, they can talk
the talk but cannot walk the walk these boys.

Boxscarf » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:33 am wrote:The Owners might not be blamed for the money in which they have given the managers under their guidance, but they are to blame for lots of things.

They're the ones who hired Kenny Dalglish.

They're the ones who hired Damien Comolli.

They hid in Boston while the racism scandal surrounding Luis Suarez happened, leaving Dalglish and the club defenceless.

They sacked Dalglish after a poor league performance despite winning our first trophy in six years and an FA Cup final appearance and then turned around and said 'cups aren't important to us, we want Champions League football'.

They brought in a young, inexperienced manager as a replacement and offered him just £30m to spend on a squad that needs treble that amount of add much needed quality and depth to it.

The club couldn't even sign Clint Dempsey for £6m and subsequently we have one recognised striker all season-long.

They talk and talk about a new Stadium, yet nothing has happened and probably won't for many years to come.

They sign a Chinese-American to be our PR man and he ends up threatening to kill a supporter on Twitter.

Since FSG's arrival here, it's been one disaster after another, it's been failure to failure to more failure and rightly so that some supporters are starting to question whether or not these people actually know what they're doing.

They want CL football and yet have done nothing in their power to ensure this will happen. It wouldn't surprise me if at the end of the season, they bin Rodgers and try and sign Martinez or O'Neill or the next flavour of the month.

I have constantly defended FSG for allowing Kenny, Comolli and Rodgers to spend close on £150m but unfortunately that is where my support for them stops. I totally agree with all of your observations which clearly demonstrate that FSG have made a catalogue of serious mistakes. Ayres must also be viewed as being out of his depth.

I am very concerned about FSG being Liverpool owners and another reason for me to be more concerned now is that their Boston R.Sox recently is suffering a slump in form and this is happening in Liverpool right now. I agree with Lawrenson that appointing BR by them was a huge gamble because BR only had 1 year of full PL experience and they expected such a fella to manage a world famous club in Liverpool. Roberto Martinez was their first choice and that appointment would have been the biggest joke of the premier league. Come on, we're Liverpool FC, a club that should be aiming to win the PL every season, we are not some struggling club that are just happy to avoid relegation from the PL. If that was the case, then appointing Martinez/Rodgers would make sense. BR knows how to talk big but delivers mediocre results. The PL table doesn't lie.

So this FSG and BR partnership at the moment looks like we're heading for another repeat Hodgson nightmare show esp. after we get beat by QPR on Sunday which won't surprise me. In the Rafa days, we would have easily walked over clubs like that, now I'm just relieved we can get away with a draw at Loftus Rd.

Whether you all are going to like it or not, I am going to say that FSG are the wrong owners for LIverpool and their stinginess is going to downgrade the most successful club in British football to mid table mediocrity. There is not much future for Liverpool unless there's a change of ownership to some rich tycoon IMHO