Liverpool FC Forum

ste1977 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:45 pm wrote:Spain will win in 90 minutes on Sunday and destroy Italy

I'm not so sure, I felt Italy should have beaten Spain in the group stage.

LFC2007 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:27 pm wrote:
These players don't have to be considered 'world class' to be capable of playing better in an England shirt. All they have to do is show a comparable level of form for their country as they do at club level. Rooney, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Cole are league title and Champions League winners. They weren't passengers in those sides, either. If they can achieve so much at club level, they can certainly do a hell of a lot better at international level. Going forward, it will fall to the likes of Hart, Jones, Walker, Wilshere, Johnson, Welbeck, Carroll etc.. again players who are currently at the top clubs, some of whom have already won titles.

You're absolutely right, England don't need a group of World Class players to achieve more in International football. They do however need better footballers, players with game intelligence and players who can do the basics at International level. You look at an English defender, any English central defender and then compare the best English central defender of the last decade to others in Europe and do this with every position and you'll seen realise how technically inferior English players are to their continental and world counterparts. The English footballer will always come second.

Over the last twenty two years there have been a few surprise packages in England. Gascoigne, Redknapp, Beckham, Owen, Sheringham, Scholes, Le Tissier, Gerrard and Shearer are players of a high quality and how England could have done with these players in their Euro 2012 squad at their prime.

People say English players are technically good footballers, they have won league titles and Champions League titles. Yet when it comes to International competition, England fail to produce the basic fundamentals of football. They cannot string passes together. Against Italy in extra time England had passed the ball around 340 times to Italy's 710 passes. Italy had something like 57% percentage of possession across the board. They had around 35 shots in 120 minutes to England's 9. Now if this was a one off in an International tournament I could understand, but every tournament it's the same old story.

Roy Hodgson's team were ugly, unattractive and negative, but there isn't much difference between the team of Euro 2012 and the team of the World Cup 2010 and there isn't much difference between those two teams from the team that failed to get into Euro 2008. Three different managers from three different places and the results are the same. Failure of an epic proportion. Unless, England think they're better than they are? Maybe a QF position is the best that England can do?

By the way seeing as Pascal Cygan won a Premiership title and two FA Cups, I suppose that makes him a good player too?

The World Cup in 2014 will be same story for England, irrespective of who is in the England team. It will be qualification to the second round and a possible exit there or in the QF. England do not have the talent or the ability to go further.

As I said, those players weren't just peripheral figures in a title winning side like Cygan was for Arsenal. They were ever presents and in most cases played a prominent if not instrumental role in helping their sides to major success, including on the European stage, playing alongside and against some of the best players in the world. Had they been capable of reproducing theor club form for England, performances would have been better, but for one reason or another, and we can discuss the players' mentality, the shenanigans that go on at the FA, the performance of the managers over the years etc.., they haven't done it.

There is no doubt in my mind that the players have not fulfilled their potential on the international stage.

At the same time, it's obvious to see that there is a lot to be worked on in terms of producing more technically gifted players. It's been a generation since we last produced a John Barnes or Peter Beardsley and these are the kinds of players we'll need to some coming through once more before England will have the players to consistently reach the latter stages of major tournaments.

Once you've got the players, you also need the right manager and more generally the right conditions to have success. If it were as simple as having players with superior technical ability, it wouldn't have taken until 2010 for Spain to win their first World Cup.

Performances would be better yes, but how much better? When I look at teams like Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Brazil and Argentina, their players seem so much better than ours. I mean what English player comes anywhere near Messi or Ronaldo at the moment? What English midfielder comes anywhere near Xavi, Pirlo, Alonso and Iniesta? What English player comes close to the likes of Bastian Schweinsteiger or Joao Moutinho even? These two individuals might not get the plaudits, but they are quality footballers in their own right.

England might have players who have had successful club careers, but when it comes to International football, they just seem like run-of-the-mill footballers. It seems with English footballers is that they believe the hype surrounding them. As for England having good managers, they had good managers in Sven-Goran Eriksson and Fabio Capello and results were still the same.

As for Spain, it's only up until recently that the Spanish team developed a togetherness that wasn't apparent in previous teams. They also adopted a philosophy which matches Barcelona's philosophy which was Ajax's philosophy with Cruyff which was Hungary's philosophy in the 1950's. It's a winning philosophy which requires special footballers to make it work.

England need a change of philosophy and that change needs to be filtered through all sections of English football. Youngsters need to be taught how to do the basics, how to keep things simple, yet remain effective. Youngsters also need to be adaptable to tactical and formational changes throughout a match. I remember watching Ricardo La Volpe's Mexican team of 2002-2006 and they would often change their formations and tactics two or three times during a match and every Mexican footballer knew his role and could adapt to what was asked of them. They were a joy to watch and hard to beat and what made them hard to beat was they did the basics well. Players like Zinha and Pavel Pardo had the technical ability and game intelligence to instigate attacks when the ball broke from defence.

English football needs a revamp, a change of direction, a change of philosophy. Until this happens, England will never achieve more.

Beautiful football played by the perfect team    ...Congratulations Xabi 

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:43 pm wrote:Beautiful football played by the perfect team    ...Congratulations Xabi 

I've seen a lot of good teams over the years, great teams even, but this by far the best team I have ever seen.

Boring my *****!!

Some outstanding football on display from Spain tonight and a lot of it long before Italy lost Motta and were reduced to 10.

I really can't understand how people can say that they hate the brand of football that Spain and Barcelona play. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the ball retention, vision and passing that Spain and Barca show is football of the highest and purist quality IMO.

VIVA ESPANA!!

Yea I agree.  I mean even at 2-0 Italy still looked in the game, but once Motta went off it was pretty obviously over.  Still I thought the game was really entertaining, and Spain played some brilliant football.

Italy got owned by the best team in this planet

RUSHIE#9 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:03 pm wrote:Boring my *****!!

Some outstanding football on display from Spain tonight and a lot of it long before Italy lost Motta and were reduced to 10.

I really can't understand how people can say that they hate the brand of football that Spain and Barcelona play. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the ball retention, vision and passing that Spain and Barca show is football of the highest and purist quality IMO.

VIVA ESPANA!!

Spot on, mate. Whatever your 'footballing philosophy' it's impossible not to have the utmost admiration for the way that this Spanish side maintains possession, unlocks defences and presses to win the ball back. Those are qualities you want to see in any side and there's nothing 'boring' or 'overrated' about how Spain go about it. It's fantastic to watch, it gets results and that's as much as you can ask for from any side.

Those critics who criticise Spain's way of playing do my head in! they either don't know how the game is played or feeling bitter and envious.

Spain's philosophy is effective and sublime, I haven't seen another side that keeps the ball ever so well. They love to hold on to it and they have players like David Silva and Iniesta who are masters of keeping the ball when they try to cut inside into the penalty box. Everything about Spain makes you admire their way of playing.

Fantastic team, best national team I have ever seen

metalhead » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:50 am wrote:Those critics who criticise Spain's way of playing do my head in! they either don't know how the game is played or feeling bitter and envious.

Spain's philosophy is effective and sublime, I haven't seen another side that keeps the ball ever so well. They love to hold on to it and they have players like David Silva and Iniesta who are masters of keeping the ball when they try to cut inside into the penalty box. Everything about Spain makes you admire their way of playing.

Fantastic team, best national team I have ever seen

It's f*cking ridiculous if you ask me, for years they've been praised to high heavens for their style and approach and now because teams pack behind the ball Spain are labelled the boring ones, you couldn't make it up

Greavesie » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:56 pm wrote:

metalhead » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:50 am wrote:Those critics who criticise Spain's way of playing do my head in! they either don't know how the game is played or feeling bitter and envious.

Spain's philosophy is effective and sublime, I haven't seen another side that keeps the ball ever so well. They love to hold on to it and they have players like David Silva and Iniesta who are masters of keeping the ball when they try to cut inside into the penalty box. Everything about Spain makes you admire their way of playing.

Fantastic team, best national team I have ever seen

It's f*cking ridiculous if you ask me, for years they've been praised to high heavens for their style and approach and now because teams pack behind the ball Spain are labelled the boring ones, you couldn't make it up

As Xavi or Iniesta said the other day; 'People don't realise how hard it is to break down teams with 10 men behind the ball'.

This is the problem they're facing and are going to face even more now but I still wouldn't bet against them raising the World Cup again in Brazil in 2014.

RUSHIE#9 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:39 pm wrote:As Xavi or Iniesta said the other day; 'People don't realise how hard it is to break down teams with 10 men behind the ball'.

This is the problem they're facing and are going to face even more now but I still wouldn't bet against them raising the World Cup again in Brazil in 2014.

They will definitely be favourites ,but I am convinced the  2014 World Cup will be the Uruguayans time to shine mate.

I too think uruguay will win the 2014 world cup.

Also think there will be a couple of teams who will be under estimated I.E Belgium got a great side.