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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby yckatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:15 am

Kharhaz wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:that article is saying the owners have left the situation to ayre and dalglish and thats fair enough but i dont buy that they didnt know what was going on.
for me the critical point for this whole saga was that day when the players warmed up with suarez t shirts on and the club issued a strong statement.
the t shirts and the statement were the things that sent a `this could be a bit of a cultural missunderstanding` issue into a LFC v the press and the rest of the planet public relations war.
i dont blame the players for wanting to show suarez they were backing him, thats a natural thing for team mates to do but all big companies have chairmen and chief executives who can see where certain situations can lead. that is their job, to set the direction and the tone for the company.
you cant tell me that over an issue as serious as this that our owners werent informed of the stance the club was going to take.
that was the point were the senior management should have said, no everyone calm down and we`ll release a statement to take the heat out of the situation.
thats what management is there for in business.
for the senior management of the club to back our beligerent stance but then when the storm erupts to allow kenny and luis to take all the blame is out of order imo.
i doubt kenny and luis were the ones behind the beligerent statement.

Take into account everything this club has gone through with Hicks and Gillett. When they took over they also had to suffer them idiots before they took control. During the time FSG took over they have gone out of their way to understand the club, the supporters and the city.

In the process of doing so, they have done wonders to give the fans what they want. Supporters to represent the club, money to spend and indeed appointing our hero to manage the club. THIS speaks volumes to me. They understand what we want.

They also understand that not all supporters share the same view as others. Take for example the SOS. Some supporters couldn't praise them enough, others thought ill of them. So they took all this into account when forming the LFC Supporters Committee (which incidentally I think the initial statement came from, with legal advise of course).

They knew what was going on, they knew the stance of others at the club, but they also knew that to speak to the media in this country, whatever they say will be twisted to make them look like bigots.

the owners have been good up to now but to have kenny dalglish in a situation were he has to make an apology for just doing what he has always done - stick up for this club and it`s players is a monumental p.r f##k up.
kenny is a f##king winner, he never rolled over infront of anyone in his whole life, for him to swallow his pride and offer a grovelling apology to the likes of sky, the press, manchester united and more importantly ferguson must have broke his heart, but the man did it because he loves this club.
i didnt like the tone in the echo tonight either, suggesting suarez might be more trouble than he`s worth, the day this club gets told what to do by the same press and media who have lambasted this city for decades and the day this club gets told what to do by alex ferguson then quite frankly as far as i am concerned LFC doesnt exist anymore, at least the one i used to know.
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Postby ethanr » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:18 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Well :censored: off with the owners and there dealings with this . Can i ask any of our american brothers if the Owners would let the yankees shaft the red sox like this ?

From one baseball club to the next, they basically don't talk about their rivalry in order to avoid this type of thing.  From one fan to the next, it's probably very similar to a Liverpool against a man u fan.

From player to player, I guarantee you they have had similar problems with racism, but the players don't b!tch about it because that's just part of it.

The sports are different tho.  There's a lot more passion in football then baseball. Baseball players will be a yankee one day, a met the next day and a red sox player by the end of the week.  There's really no loyalty at all, it's just where the money lies.  Those 2 teams spit up a whole lot of cash for the best players, so they are like chelsea and man city.  Very few Chelsea and man city players have much respect for their club, they just want to win trophies and make a lot of money doing it.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:34 am

i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say? 

Should they have sat back and allowed KK and Suarez to dig us into a deeper hole?

No...we had to bite the bullet and attempt to repair the damage caused, no matter how painful.
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Postby eds » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:59 am

7_Kewell wrote:i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say? 

BACK IN OCTOBER, WHEN THIS BROKE, THEY SHOULD HAVE STATED THE FOLLOWING:

That they, Luis Suarez, Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football club stand against racism in any shape or form.

This includes the vile racist attack that Luis Suarez came under when provoked by Patrice Evra. To make matters worse it appears that Patrice Evra has made unfounded and untruthful allegations about Luis Suarez.

Something which Liverpool Football Club will set to resolve with the FA in the next couple of weeks. If the matter is not clarified then Liverpool Football Club will be seeking defamation charges be brought against Patrice Evra and Manchester United.
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Postby yellsub66 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:41 am

dundreamin wrote:YELLSUB66 yes I,am proud to be a LFC fan at the moment. I have done for the last 50 years. D.ickheads like you ain't got a clue

Thank you for that Dundreamin! Very constructive and friendly! :(

I have been a fan for over 40 years. I just detest the way that UTD have got off totally 'scot' free after completely humiliating our club. The media bias is unreal..it wasn't Suarez who refused the handshake..everyone can see that Evra was setting him up by refusing to raise his hand and then totally overreacting. It is nothing short of a witch hunt!

I just feel that there seems to be some hidden agenda...why can UTD not be challenged? Why are the press so protective of them?

Why are the press SO against LFC?

Best case scenario is that we win both cups, go on a winning run till the end of the season and grab 4th spot. That would be fantastic and would salvage our season.

It won't change Baconface's agenda against us...and that is something we need to respond to and deal with once and for all!
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Postby yellsub66 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:43 am

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:that article is saying the owners have left the situation to ayre and dalglish and thats fair enough but i dont buy that they didnt know what was going on.
for me the critical point for this whole saga was that day when the players warmed up with suarez t shirts on and the club issued a strong statement.
the t shirts and the statement were the things that sent a `this could be a bit of a cultural missunderstanding` issue into a LFC v the press and the rest of the planet public relations war.
i dont blame the players for wanting to show suarez they were backing him, thats a natural thing for team mates to do but all big companies have chairmen and chief executives who can see where certain situations can lead. that is their job, to set the direction and the tone for the company.
you cant tell me that over an issue as serious as this that our owners werent informed of the stance the club was going to take.
that was the point were the senior management should have said, no everyone calm down and we`ll release a statement to take the heat out of the situation.
thats what management is there for in business.
for the senior management of the club to back our beligerent stance but then when the storm erupts to allow kenny and luis to take all the blame is out of order imo.
i doubt kenny and luis were the ones behind the beligerent statement.

Take into account everything this club has gone through with Hicks and Gillett. When they took over they also had to suffer them idiots before they took control. During the time FSG took over they have gone out of their way to understand the club, the supporters and the city.

In the process of doing so, they have done wonders to give the fans what they want. Supporters to represent the club, money to spend and indeed appointing our hero to manage the club. THIS speaks volumes to me. They understand what we want.

They also understand that not all supporters share the same view as others. Take for example the SOS. Some supporters couldn't praise them enough, others thought ill of them. So they took all this into account when forming the LFC Supporters Committee (which incidentally I think the initial statement came from, with legal advise of course).

They knew what was going on, they knew the stance of others at the club, but they also knew that to speak to the media in this country, whatever they say will be twisted to make them look like bigots.

the owners have been good up to now but to have kenny dalglish in a situation were he has to make an apology for just doing what he has always done - stick up for this club and it`s players is a monumental p.r f##k up.
kenny is a f##king winner, he never rolled over infront of anyone in his whole life, for him to swallow his pride and offer a grovelling apology to the likes of sky, the press, manchester united and more importantly ferguson must have broke his heart, but the man did it because he loves this club.
i didnt like the tone in the echo tonight either, suggesting suarez might be more trouble than he`s worth, the day this club gets told what to do by the same press and media who have lambasted this city for decades and the day this club gets told what to do by alex ferguson then quite frankly as far as i am concerned LFC doesnt exist anymore, at least the one i used to know.

Hear, hear to that!! Very well said!
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Postby devaney » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:10 am

yellsub66 wrote:
dundreamin wrote:YELLSUB66 yes I,am proud to be a LFC fan at the moment. I have done for the last 50 years. D.ickheads like you ain't got a clue

Thank you for that Dundreamin! Very constructive and friendly! :(

I have been a fan for over 40 years. I just detest the way that UTD have got off totally 'scot' free after completely humiliating our club. The media bias is unreal..it wasn't Suarez who refused the handshake..everyone can see that Evra was setting him up by refusing to raise his hand and then totally overreacting. It is nothing short of a witch hunt!

I just feel that there seems to be some hidden agenda...why can UTD not be challenged? Why are the press so protective of them?

Why are the press SO against LFC?

Best case scenario is that we win both cups, go on a winning run till the end of the season and grab 4th spot. That would be fantastic and would salvage our season.

It won't change Baconface's agenda against us...and that is something we need to respond to and deal with once and for all!

Calm down lads! That hideous machine down the East Lancs road together with our disgusting media has now got us having a go at each other! I think you both make some excellent points and your support for the club is obvious.

We don't know what has gone on behind the scenes but I feel somewhat upset that Kenny on face value has been left to get on with the Suarez Evra debacle.Many people felt that the original statement by LFC was highly insensitive and dismissive.Many people including Liverpool fans felt that the Suarez T_shirts were inappropriate. Kenny was left to take the flack for our stance as a club.

I do not believe for one moment that Kenny simply went out and got the T-Shirts printed and that nobody at the club new anything about them prior to the players parading in them before the game! Kenny has been put in an extremely invidious position mainly through no fault of his own. I was very proud to see the way that he steadfastly defended Luis and the club. Unfortunately and somewhat surprisingly he was being a little naive and given no public help by either most importantly Ian Ayre's or the owners. If they didn't like Kenny's stance on the issue he should have been told to act accordingly. If they agreed with Kenny then they should have publicly said so. It is about sticking together through good and bad! Ayre's and the owners of LFC have brought massive worldwide embarrassment on the club through their public inaction.

As for the owners as I have said they seem like decent people but let's be under no illusions. They bought the club at a drastically knocked down price of £300m and then sold Torres for a sixth of that sum. Their activity in the transfer market has cost them just over £35m net and has largely been a waste of money. Comolli has to accept a lot of responsibility for that but it the owners that employ him!

I hope everybody including the fans have learned something from this schoolyard spat that has become worldwide news and temporarily damaged the good name of LFC.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby maguskwt » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:08 pm

eds wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say? 

BACK IN OCTOBER, WHEN THIS BROKE, THEY SHOULD HAVE STATED THE FOLLOWING:

That they, Luis Suarez, Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football club stand against racism in any shape or form.

This includes the vile racist attack that Luis Suarez came under when provoked by Patrice Evra. To make matters worse it appears that Patrice Evra has made unfounded and untruthful allegations about Luis Suarez.

Something which Liverpool Football Club will set to resolve with the FA in the next couple of weeks. If the matter is not clarified then Liverpool Football Club will be seeking defamation charges be brought against Patrice Evra and Manchester United.

Hind sight is 20/20
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Postby Greavesie » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:16 pm

maguskwt wrote:
eds wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say? 

BACK IN OCTOBER, WHEN THIS BROKE, THEY SHOULD HAVE STATED THE FOLLOWING:

That they, Luis Suarez, Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football club stand against racism in any shape or form.

This includes the vile racist attack that Luis Suarez came under when provoked by Patrice Evra. To make matters worse it appears that Patrice Evra has made unfounded and untruthful allegations about Luis Suarez.

Something which Liverpool Football Club will set to resolve with the FA in the next couple of weeks. If the matter is not clarified then Liverpool Football Club will be seeking defamation charges be brought against Patrice Evra and Manchester United.

Hind sight is 20/20

:nod

How come people have just started pointing the finger at them now, when it really hit the fan? Stinks of last resort to me

Some may be disappointed they did nothing but nobody else at the club has helped the situation, everyone who has spoken about it has dug the hole even deeper. I accept Luis' argument entirely and that Evra is a lying kunt but Suarez is the pantomine villain now - he won't win, screaming the facts will only accomplish us embarassing ourselves further
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Postby devaney » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:13 pm

Greavesie wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
eds wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say? 

BACK IN OCTOBER, WHEN THIS BROKE, THEY SHOULD HAVE STATED THE FOLLOWING:

That they, Luis Suarez, Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football club stand against racism in any shape or form.

This includes the vile racist attack that Luis Suarez came under when provoked by Patrice Evra. To make matters worse it appears that Patrice Evra has made unfounded and untruthful allegations about Luis Suarez.

Something which Liverpool Football Club will set to resolve with the FA in the next couple of weeks. If the matter is not clarified then Liverpool Football Club will be seeking defamation charges be brought against Patrice Evra and Manchester United.

Hind sight is 20/20

:nod

How come people have just started pointing the finger at them now, when it really hit the fan? Stinks of last resort to me

Some may be disappointed they did nothing but nobody else at the club has helped the situation, everyone who has spoken about it has dug the hole even deeper. I accept Luis' argument entirely and that Evra is a lying kunt but Suarez is the pantomine villain now - he won't win, screaming the facts will only accomplish us embarassing ourselves further

I don't think it is hindsight. A lot of people and I don't include myself accused Liverpool of being incredibly irresponsible about how they responded to the Suarez allegations. Ian Ayres and the owners did not react satisfactorily to the media outburst of disgust. WE WERE NEVER GOING TO BE THE WINNERS and Ian Ayres should have been in damage limitation mode instead of allowing Kenny to go on a mission of self destruction.
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years 20/21 to 24/25  (10 years
are in brackets 15/16 to 24/25 )
LFC €300m (€420m)
Everton +€33m (€211m)
Arsenal €557m (€853m)
Spurs €571m (€684m)
Chelsea €945m (€1051m)
Man City €370m (€1038m)
Man United €687m (€1240m)
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Postby yckatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:19 pm

Greavesie wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
eds wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say? 

BACK IN OCTOBER, WHEN THIS BROKE, THEY SHOULD HAVE STATED THE FOLLOWING:

That they, Luis Suarez, Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football club stand against racism in any shape or form.

This includes the vile racist attack that Luis Suarez came under when provoked by Patrice Evra. To make matters worse it appears that Patrice Evra has made unfounded and untruthful allegations about Luis Suarez.

Something which Liverpool Football Club will set to resolve with the FA in the next couple of weeks. If the matter is not clarified then Liverpool Football Club will be seeking defamation charges be brought against Patrice Evra and Manchester United.

Hind sight is 20/20

:nod

How come people have just started pointing the finger at them now, when it really hit the fan? Stinks of last resort to me

Some may be disappointed they did nothing but nobody else at the club has helped the situation, everyone who has spoken about it has dug the hole even deeper. I accept Luis' argument entirely and that Evra is a lying kunt but Suarez is the pantomine villain now - he won't win, screaming the facts will only accomplish us embarassing ourselves further

but that is their job mate, chief executives, chairmen etc earn their big money by showing leadership at times of crisis like this, we the fans react with our hearts but those people are in those positions of power because they have the ability and foresight to see how certain situations can pan out.
they are trained for that, they are the ones that went to oxford and cambridge not the footballers.
footballers kick a bag of wind around for a living, executives lead and run businesses, thats the job descriptions.
anyone can make a mistake and hindsight is 20/20 but where is the clubs apology for that initial beligerent statement that got the press up in arms?
that statement really cranked the whole situation up to a different level.
ian ayres statement just rips into luis suarez, did luis write and release that original statement that stirred up a hornets nest in the press?
did luis write and release that statement without telling any senior management what he was going to say?
people can accept that the club handled things badly, that can happen, but when it looks like 2 people are carrying the can when obviously mistakes have been made at all levels that leaves a sour taste.
anyway, the club and fans just needs to move on from all this but i wouldnt like to be on a sinking ship with our senior management, once the proverbial hits the fan their motto seems to be every man for himself.
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Postby Greavesie » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:51 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
eds wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say? 

BACK IN OCTOBER, WHEN THIS BROKE, THEY SHOULD HAVE STATED THE FOLLOWING:

That they, Luis Suarez, Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football club stand against racism in any shape or form.

This includes the vile racist attack that Luis Suarez came under when provoked by Patrice Evra. To make matters worse it appears that Patrice Evra has made unfounded and untruthful allegations about Luis Suarez.

Something which Liverpool Football Club will set to resolve with the FA in the next couple of weeks. If the matter is not clarified then Liverpool Football Club will be seeking defamation charges be brought against Patrice Evra and Manchester United.

Hind sight is 20/20

:nod

How come people have just started pointing the finger at them now, when it really hit the fan? Stinks of last resort to me

Some may be disappointed they did nothing but nobody else at the club has helped the situation, everyone who has spoken about it has dug the hole even deeper. I accept Luis' argument entirely and that Evra is a lying kunt but Suarez is the pantomine villain now - he won't win, screaming the facts will only accomplish us embarassing ourselves further

but that is their job mate, chief executives, chairmen etc earn their big money by showing leadership at times of crisis like this, we the fans react with our hearts but those people are in those positions of power because they have the ability and foresight to see how certain situations can pan out.
they are trained for that, they are the ones that went to oxford and cambridge not the footballers.
footballers kick a bag of wind around for a living, executives lead and run businesses, thats the job descriptions.
anyone can make a mistake and hindsight is 20/20 but where is the clubs apology for that initial beligerent statement that got the press up in arms?
that statement really cranked the whole situation up to a different level.
ian ayres statement just rips into luis suarez, did luis write and release that original statement that stirred up a hornets nest in the press?
did luis write and release that statement without telling any senior management what he was going to say?
people can accept that the club handled things badly, that can happen, but when it looks like 2 people are carrying the can when obviously mistakes have been made at all levels that leaves a sour taste.
anyway, the club and fans just needs to move on from all this but i wouldnt like to be on a sinking ship with our senior management, once the proverbial hits the fan their motto seems to be every man for himself.

all of the statements released lately are to just deflect the bad press and diffuse the situation. I've already said that I bet behind closed doors the coversations that have taken place nowhere near reflect the sentiments given in the statements. We've lost the press battle and we ain't gonna clear anything up by keeping the saga alive, the owners have stepped in and killed it dead. I don't see the problem tbh, if they kept out of this it wouldn't get any better but they left Kenny to handle it originally.

If you had have asked me at the time if Kenny could handle it I'd have said yes every single time and I'd have trusted him to play with the media quite nicely over it, but he didn't. I think the statement was enough and we should have appealed and ensured as many people as possible were given the correct information. The debate over the use of the facts of the case is a genuinely interesting one when football matters are put to one side, the media have just made this as one sided as possible.

I genuinely believe that Suarez didn't intend anything racist in the words he used and he's completely innocent on that front. Even if thats not to be believed there's no evidence of the other accounts other than the word of Evra and dodgy accounts from Comoli and Dirk which quite frankly isnt enough to warrant a guilty verdict imo.
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Postby woof woof ! » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:40 pm

Not sure why some are getting their knickers in a twist over the owners part in this.

I thought that they showed great respect and faith in Kenny and Co and believed they had the ability deal with "stuff" .

The fact that the hierarchy in situ at Anfield made a dogs breakfast of the whole affair must have been as alarming to John Henry as it was to (some of) us.
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Postby parchpea » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:22 pm

Shame we couldnt keep hold of that Martin Broughton as doubt we would have many problems with him over seeing matters.

What we have is Werner (never see him) and Ayre who despite doing some good sponsorship work really doesnt cut an impressive figure to me. Probably doesnt cost much like.

Not sure we have enough quality behind the scenes let alone on the park and perhaps thats something that needs to be reviewed going forward.
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Postby yckatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:36 pm

Greavesie wrote:all of the statements released lately are to just deflect the bad press and diffuse the situation. I've already said that I bet behind closed doors the coversations that have taken place nowhere near reflect the sentiments given in the statements. We've lost the press battle and we ain't gonna clear anything up by keeping the saga alive, the owners have stepped in and killed it dead. I don't see the problem tbh, if they kept out of this it wouldn't get any better but they left Kenny to handle it originally.

If you had have asked me at the time if Kenny could handle it I'd have said yes every single time and I'd have trusted him to play with the media quite nicely over it, but he didn't. I think the statement was enough and we should have appealed and ensured as many people as possible were given the correct information. The debate over the use of the facts of the case is a genuinely interesting one when football matters are put to one side, the media have just made this as one sided as possible.

I genuinely believe that Suarez didn't intend anything racist in the words he used and he's completely innocent on that front. Even if thats not to be believed there's no evidence of the other accounts other than the word of Evra and dodgy accounts from Comoli and Dirk which quite frankly isnt enough to warrant a guilty verdict imo.

mate i could be wrong but my understanding of the situation is that luis suarez was found guilty of using an inappropiate remark and wasnt found guilty of racist behavior, manchester united and evra themselves said they didnt think suarez was racist and to be fair to evra he said in the hearing that suarez did use a word which can mean mate in south america not a  more offensive word but he initially thought that it meant something else.
the hearing concluded that suarez shouldnt have used the word in an argument situation.
thats my understanding of it.
how the hell did our pr department turn something that looks like a cultural missunderstanding into the biggest flame war about race in football in this country since the 1980`s with this club painted as the bad guys?
even the prime minister got involved!! the economy is tanking, europe is in chaos, the government is trying to push through the biggest reform to the nhs in its entire history causing a major row, the country`s debt has gone past the trillion pound mark for the first time in history but despite all that this situation was seen as so serious that the prime minister had to get involved because the row was actually starting to damage the game which is a multi billion pound industry for this country.
thats before you mention the articles in the new york press etc and foreign media in general.
this has been a huge f##k up.
i suppose one thing is that in situations like this you get to know who your friends are and john barnes has been absolutely phenominal, as good off the pitch as he was on it.
i think everyone just needs to stop talking about it now, if we win at wembley that will go a long way to getting everyone talking about the footy again.
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