Liverpool FC Forum

by **Kenny Kan** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:58 am

It's not working is it?

Henderson (1 goal), Adam (2 goal), Lucas (0 goal) and Downing (0 goal). With eleven games in our midfield have 3 goals to their name and one of those was a spot kick.

With Andy missing sitters like the one early on yesterday where he somehow managed to hit the bar and thus not looking very prolific in front of goal, is it any wonder why we struggle to beat teams?

FWIW, the goal return from midfield is simply not good enough at this stage and the anti has to be upped 3 fold in this department.

I've warmed to Lucas and really only he can be exempt from any magnified analysis when the question of 'getting forward' crops up. Yet, he did this yesterday too, to his credit. It's his partner in CM that worries me and that fact that Kenny is sticking with it that really worries me.

Adam, doesn't compliment Lucas at all. It's a pairing that many have suggested needs to become a trio with Gerrard or Henderson added to it. For it to become effective. As it stands we're to immobile in the middle of the pitch and devoid of ideas wide of it. Henderson is never a RM! I don't know whether Kenny feels as though he's pressured to play Henderson because of the money spent or what but him, Adam and Downing have all been added to our midfield and we still look ordinary.

I don't know whether it's the rigid 4-4-2 we're playing or the personal there, or both. Kenny needs to change this asap.

Personally, we looked much better when Spearing was in the side against Stoke, had he have played yesterday we may have not made Swansea look like Brazil's 1970's side, stroking the ball around with aplomb and not pressuring them.

Forgetting midfield for a mo, our strikers Suarez and Carroll aren't as clinical as we'd need them to be, especially with such a toothless midfield. Suarez, I can't criticize too much the lad is a genius and has carried us IMO recently. But it's fair to only point out that he isn't the most clinical in front of goal at times and neither is Andy.

I think we should perhaps revert to a 'Rafa type' formation to get the midfield chipping in with goals more. I did suggest in another thread about playing the diamond formation but this could also work (I think)....

Reina

Johnson Skertel Agger Enrique

Spearing/Gerrard? Lucas

Bellamy/Kuyt Henderson/Maxi Downing/Bellamy

Suarez

The two victims really for the drop in my side are Adam and Carroll. It's no coincidence either both of them have been extremely disappointing for me. Mind you, Henderson and Downing haven't faired much better but seeing as we don't have a genuine LM, I'd be inclined to go with him or Bellamy as second choice on that side.

With Suarez up front on his own though Downing's game would have to change somewhat. Meaning, it wouldn't always be about getting to the byline and whipping a cross in. He'd have to come in and link up more as would Bellamy on the other flank, so as to not leaving Suarez isolated. Like we did with Torres.

I think we need to add much more goal threat to our midfield and play them further up in a supporting role to help them do this. I think Henderson has an eye for goal and I'd like Kenny to play him in the center. Even in a 4-4-2 ahead of Adam, in the formation above he could form the tip of a triangle which is reinforced by Spearing and Lucas. There is great mobility and engines within the three of them, however the "dictator of tempo" isn't really there in my side. That's a weak link, yet I'd play Gerrard when fit alongside Lucas and Spearing as his understudy.

I may continue this post later....Battery power is low on the laptop.... But something, especially in midfield needs to be addressed, be it formation or personnel or both!

by **red_guy** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:28 am

Agree with your opinion on Adam and the formation. Anyway, I also think Downing should do something about his mediocre performances or he should be dropped.

by **Johnny Boy** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:42 am

Lucas and Adam are not a good pairing yet Kenny continues to play them.
You look at our rivals, Nasri, Silva, Modric, Van der Vaart, Arteta and Mata players with flair, pace, can score goals. We have nobody like that.

Carroll worked hard yesterday but dear me he missed a sitter, both him and Henderson are looking like bad buys for a combined £50 million too. I can't understand why Kenny keeps picking Henderson on the right and not using Bellamy more.

by **RedSi35** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:41 am

If you look at the opta stats Here
Our season so far is going well.

We are right up there with City in the amount of shots on goal, but on 40 odd % of those are on target, we have the best midfield tackler in lucas and the best individual highest amont of shots in suarez.

Does it mean we lack creativity? Im not sure. It looks like a case of us just shooting at goal for the sake of it as we lack that final shine in front of goal ( 4th from bottom in shot accuracy ). That sort of looks likely as if you look at the amount of passess the team makes, putting us squarely mid table.

Funnily though our 1st half performance puts us in 5th spot 4. Points off the top.
2nd half we are way down in 11th 3 points off the bottom!

We have all seen that, start a game well then run out of ideas. We defintetly need a more creative midfield.

by **mart** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:27 am

I'm not that worried about our lack of creativity, but by our lack of control in these matches. We open up so much space we practically invite the opposition to come at us. We even made swansea look like a good team. We need to learn to push our defensive line higher up, especially if we keep playing the somewhat outdated 442 formation. I'd like to see us return to a more rafalike formation too as i think it will make it easier to get the best out of our current players.

Reina

Johnson Skertel Agger Enrique

Spearing/Henderson Lucas

Bellamy/Kuyt/maxi/gerrard Gerrard/Adam/maxi Downing/Bellamy/maxi

Suarez

We have plenty of options for the three players behind suarez. Any combination of those three should work.
I dont want gerrard next to lucas as its a waste of his talents. I'd like to at least try henderson as a CM next to lucas to see what he can do there. I'm not a fan of spearing but he does bring some stability to our midfield, and would be my other choice there.

by **stmichael** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:53 pm

as i said in the tactics thread, the midfield balance is a major concern for me. it's frightening to think that in the second half of games at home this season we've been completely outplayed by sunderland, wolves, norwich and swansea. adam for me is not a guy who should be a regular name on the teamsheet. at blackpool he was their best player but still got substituted at around 65-70 minutes inmost games.

in attack we still don't commit enough men forward for my liking like we were doing in the second half of last season. only adam and gerrard from the midfield have scored this season. kuyt may not be everyone's favourite but at least he provides a goal threat, same with maxi.

by **RedSi35** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:06 pm

Reina

Johnson Skertel Agger Enrique

Spearing Lucas

Bellamy/Maxi Gerrard Downing

Suarez

Attacking wise i feel te above is a decent balance, still doesnt look great though

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:22 pm

As far as i'm aware Downing hasn't even been acredited with an asist...which is unacceptable for a WINGER who cost us a fecking fortune.

I'm getting worried that we're devoid of ideas because we simply haven't got any.

by **stmichael** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:27 pm

the best we've played this season was the first 35-40 minutes away at brighton imo. the front four were maxi, bellamy, kuyt and suarez. some of our movement off the ball was sublime and we should have been out of sight. however we've never seen these four on the pitch together anytime since.

by **red till i die!!** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:51 am

7_Kewell wrote:As far as i'm aware Downing hasn't even been acredited with an asist...which is unacceptable for a WINGER who cost us a fecking fortune.

I'm getting worried that we're devoid of ideas because we simply haven't got any.

agree.
downing has provided nothing and his performances are beginning to raise questions.he needs to up his game and show us why kk has faith in him and why he deserves his place in that 11.

without gerrard in the side we will always be devoid of ideas because the rest are headless chickens.not one leader of men or inspiration among the lot of em.
we chase the game in midfield everytime because what we have isnt good enough atm.
in lucas,adam,downing and henderson we have a very average midfield and although we have a big squad the cover isnt good enough in those positions.

were struggling because we have far too many average players and no flair

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:16 pm

Our team is considerably weaker than the one that last challenged for the title. (and even that team fell slightly short). Its mainly the midfield and the tactics that are weaker though.

In a nutshell, Lucas is not as good as Mascherano was as DM. He is a good player and can do a good job.
Adam is not even in the same league as Alonso. He cant dictate a game the way Alonso did and offers nothing defensively.
Gerrard also cant perform the Alonso role. And at his age, sadly Gerrard is not as good as he was.
Downing has potential but is currently offering the team a lot less than the likes of Yossi/Riera did.

Over the last season or two a midfield has been very seriously downgraded and its really evident at the moment. kenny has got to sort out our CM with the personnel he has.

by **stmichael** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:30 pm

7_Kewell wrote:As far as i'm aware Downing hasn't even been acredited with an asist...which is unacceptable for a WINGER who cost us a fecking fortune.

to be fair it's not like he hasn't created chances. the finishing of the chances he has created has been beyond dreadful, see carroll at the weekend for example.

it's the midfiled as a whole which is struggling to create rather than picking out individuals. at the moment our best attacking outlets are our fullbacks.

by **damjan193** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:45 pm

stmichael wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:As far as i'm aware Downing hasn't even been acredited with an asist...which is unacceptable for a WINGER who cost us a fecking fortune.

to be fair it's not like he hasn't created chances. the finishing of the chances he has created has been beyond dreadful, see carroll at the weekend for example.

it's the midfiled as a whole which is struggling to create rather than picking out individuals. at the moment our best attacking outlets are our fullbacks.

Downing's fecking cursed! He's had some beautiful shots and a few created chances but was extremely unlucky and nothing came out of them, so I'm not surprised that his form has dropped after being so unlucky so many times.

As a matter of fact, the whole team seams cursed! Say what you want about our play but if at least half of those posts we've hit so far this season went in, we wouldn't have been talking about how bad our team is performing.

by **Penguins** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:09 pm

jacdaniel wrote:Our team is considerably weaker than the one that last challenged for the title. (and even that team fell slightly short). Its mainly the midfield and the tactics that are weaker though.

In a nutshell, Lucas is not as good as Mascherano was as DM. He is a good player and can do a good job.
Adam is not even in the same league as Alonso. He cant dictate a game the way Alonso did and offers nothing defensively.
Gerrard also cant perform the Alonso role. And at his age, sadly Gerrard is not as good as he was.
Downing has potential but is currently offering the team a lot less than the likes of Yossi/Riera did.

Over the last season or two a midfield has been very seriously downgraded and its really evident at the moment. kenny has got to sort out our CM with the personnel he has.

True but imo that shouldn't even be an issue when we have just spunked out 45 million in that area alone this summer!
Not one of them has been an improvment of what we had and that is a catastrophe.

All this "buying british from bottom and midtable clubs" was something I was sceptical with from the start...

You overpay cause they are british and from a PL rival=bad buys.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:35 pm

jacdaniel wrote:Downing has potential

He's 27 for fecks sake !

Made his premiership debut in 2002. Nine f'ucking years ago ! Will someone please tell me when that potential is gonna be realised .

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