Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:26 pm

Just a quick post concerning the Academy and lack of flair in this country..

Just seen on the Offal that David Raven had a good game for England under-20's. It's great for the future that another youngster is doing well.

Why though in recent years have the majority of players on the fringe of breaking through to the first team been either defenders or players without much technical ability?

Not that I'm complaining if we get a few decent defenders from the academy, it's just that in recent years we've only seen the likes of Warnock, Welsh and Mellor coming through. None of them are paticularly technically gifted.

Why is this though?? Is it down to the training at the academy, or just English football in general?? We don't seem to have too many skillful players in this country, a handful of internationals like SWP, Owen (who's often let down by a poor first touch) are the only two really I can think of who are willing to run at defenders and take them on. Players like Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney are more about power and passion rather than silky skills (although given time rooney will have these aswell).

Isn't it about time we started teaching players from an early age how to be more comfortable running with the ball and taking on opponents??

Of course the great Liverpool teams of old where built on pass and move but we've always had one or two players who could keep defences on the back foot by dribbling and running at them at pace, players like Barnes and McManaman to name a couple.

Does anyone think players of this ilk are a dying breed in this country, hense the reason teams look abroad now for this type of player, ie Ronaldo??

What do you think can be done to address this?? It is obviously having an effect at international level, as we seen against Portugal when we were outclassed technically.

by **taff** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:32 pm

Lineker and Venables are great fans of the Dutch system where they play on small pitches until a certain age as this increases the need for skill levels noy big fit kids as its a world of difference between an 11 year old and a sixteen year old then an eighteen year old.

I enjoy reading Paisleys book published in 1984 where he goes on about five a side training and people observing after the "Liverpool secret" thought he was hiding things when in fact it came down to keeping possesion passing and running for your team mates no big secret.

The game is faster now but its about getting the skilled players fit not trying to turn fit strong kids into footballers.

by **Redtribe** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:33 pm

Eh Rooney is like watching Gazza all over again how can you say he has no technical ability!

by **Starbridge42** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:37 pm

its the English attitude. Possesion is 10/10ths of the law in football and the vast majority of english players keep flouting it. In building towards goal English players treat the ball like a one-night stand while players from Holland, Brazil, Argentina etc. cherish its presence lavishing it with time and attentive touches fostering a long-term affair. And they do this from an early age. Wham-bam tactics like those many english players employ do not win games of patience which leaves England lacking on the international stage. The problem stems from the style of play of the premiership. If the domestic game in england had a mission statement it would read 'players must rush from end to end, keeping the tempos as high as the fans fervour and not worrying about losing the ball because the opposition will soon give it back.' yet it is a brave premiership manager who tells fans they must stop urging the team to get the ball in the box as quickly as possible. If you watch kids play in the 'wog' suburbs here in Brisbane and the desire to keep the ball is clear. I imagine it would be similiar in South American countries or places like Portugal or Holland or the Czech Republic. English playgrounds host mass scrums more akin to the Eton Wall game than international football. Youngsters are not coached properly from an early age in techinical arts. Arsenal's Edu was under the wing of Corinthians at 5. Ajax's magnificent museum still has Denis Bergkamp's childs club membership card. Stroll around De Toenkunft, Ajax's 'The Future' finishing school and baby Bergkamps dart about enhancing their skills.

The problems come from many places and arent likely to be fixed for a long, long time.

by **simic_ie** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:38 pm

I said it before and I say it again. The reason the skillful/ technical kind of player aren't developed i this part of hte world is the mentality that prevails. Anytime someone has a bit of technical skill the usual solution is to kick em... hard. Whatever about this happeing at older levels, letting this happen at underage level is scandalous. Take for example at the age of 14 you could have a lad who isn't exactly a huge way through puberty so is still quite small physically. He could have bags of technical ability but because he could come against a 6 foot tall monster with a full beard of the same age he gets a kicking. This then means he doesn't get picked because he isn't making an impact. Now the 6 foot beast is all well and good at U-14 level but when everybody else develops his lak of ability will be shown up while the skillful lad not having played underage cos he was too small probably gave the game up.

Thats why there is a lack of skillful players around. The coaching mentality is wrong. People aren't trying to develop and nurture young players, they're trying to win to boost thier own ego, and because the skillful lads aren't playing they don't get spotted by scouts and picked up by the bigger clubs to be developed further

P.S I acknowledge there are some people out there doing excellent work for young footballers I'm just being general

by **BOODIDDY** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:06 pm

Simic your absolutely spot on. Managers at the this level are there to win games just like rafa and alex. So thats what you get big strong boys who aren't technically very good but can easily stop the little lad with loads of skill. Its like playing with your dad, you can do all the fancy tricks and dribble for fun but one little tackle and he can crumple you whether he meant it or not.

This is what happened to me and a few others that i used to play with and by the time you grow up physically these players have had 3-5 years with schools of excellence where there is a clique that doesn't allow outsiders in.

by **Paul C** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:18 pm

ant gornall wrote:Simic your absolutely spot on. Managers at the this level are there to win games just like rafa and alex.

Ant Gornall bezzie mates with all the EPL managers on first name terms an everythin

by **82-1074641017** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:18 pm

ant gornall wrote:Simic your absolutely spot on. Managers at the this level are there to win games just like rafa and alex. So thats what you get big strong boys who aren't technically very good but can easily stop the little lad with loads of skill. Its like playing with your dad, you can do all the fancy tricks and dribble for fun but one little tackle and he can crumple you whether he meant it or not.

This is what happened to me and a few others that i used to play with and by the time you grow up physically these players have had 3-5 years with schools of excellence where there is a clique that doesn't allow outsiders in.

Ant Gornall

Come on just say it Ant Gornall

Roberts

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:53 pm

Are you telling me that Gerrard is not technically gifted and is just about "power and passion".

He is the most technically gifted regular in the England side, alongside Rooney.

by **Paul C** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:56 pm

I wish people would stop typing long posts cos I'm lazy and can't be ar53d to read them

Please keep them short or I will have you banned :;):

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:04 pm

Has wrote:Are you telling me that Gerrard is not technically gifted and is just about "power and passion".

He is the most technically gifted regular in the England side, alongside Rooney.

no, what i'm saying is that gerrard's game is all about drive and determination. the way gerrard plays means that technique is not always of the uppermost importance. leave that to the likes of alonso, garcia etc.

as for england, beckham, rooney and even scholes when he played had better technique than gerrard, but it doesn't make them better players.

by **begintoend** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:11 am

stmichael wrote:no, what i'm saying is that gerrard's game is all about drive and determination. the way gerrard plays means that technique is not always of the uppermost importance. leave that to the likes of alonso, garcia etc.

as for england, beckham, rooney and even scholes when he played had better technique than gerrard, but it doesn't make them better players.

Very true.

SG has average abilities that he makes the most out of the passion and determination on him. He is giving his best in what he has. Simply that has made him one of the best performing midfielder in England and LFC.

Imagine if he has the quality skills of a Maradona, he could better Viera. :blush:

Gazza was the last skilled footballer I have seen England produced.

by **kazza** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:59 pm

I think it is the English football mentality.Case in point; Remember Glen Hoddle? He was probably the best player technically we had (in that era), yet he had only a few caps for England, and we called him Glenda because he was not brutish enough. The french player Platini said that if Glen was French, France would have won the World cup and he would have been the best player in the world. We need to encourage these high skill players, or we will never win anything (England)

by **Red_Si** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:35 pm

Gary Ablett was one of the most technically gifted players I've ever seen. :grinning:

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:40 am

this is a good topic and one i feel strongly about.

the points made by simic ie and starbridge are absolutely spot on and i'm glad people see the problems as more deep rooted than some people suggest. it will take decades to stamp out.

for me though, the one thing that it all comes down to is British culture. Games like football typify a nations's character. the way you see players play says alot about the nation, almost representing the personality of that nation. football, as a creative, artistic thing, is like music and architecture, and the nation's culture is expressed through these mediums.

is it no coincidence that with the d*ckhead culture we have in Britain - the most mentally stagnant place on the planet apart from America, totally devoid of any real culture, our football mimics this.

dont start pulling me up saying "hang on what about rooney, gerrard owen etc etc blah blah." of course we're gonna get great players every now and then. of course i'm generalizing.

for our football to become like we want it, the culture in britain wuld have to change, and with that, society etc. this is how big the problem is, and shows how deep routed it is, and also shows how long it will take for it to change.

we have to change the british way of looking at life in general if we want our football to change. all the points made about the 15 year old grocks that are encouraged, and take over at a young age, are totally relevant.

i went to a football tournament twice in Amsterdam with Liverpool Boys, where of course us and the Irish teams done brilliantly, knockin the stuffin out of the continentals, big strong b*stards that we were. we were laughin all the way. but it was the coaches of the continental teams that didnt seem that @rsed. that was beacuse they knew that in a few years time, all these british brutes that had the upper hand at this age would soon be gettin takin the p*ss out of them when these young scrawny continentals grew up to be the same size, and could then use their skill that was nurtured in the younger days, to run rings round them.

and thats the way it is.

Paul C sorry for the length of the post mate but feel strongly on this one. (plus i split it up into nice easy paragraphs for your poor little tired brain to digest

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