Liverpool FC Forum

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:36 am

Igor Zidane wrote:Nando = new scapegoat . FACT . You couldn't make it up could you ?Delusional .

Well no blame could possibly fall at the feet of the manager Igor ...that would be the equivalent of stating Roy determined which tactics the team employed in games, and he was in fact in charge of substitutions ....such thoughts are absolute nonsense ....the manager being held responsible for the teams displays never heard of it ....No its far better to blame it on one of our few genuine world class players we have at the club who is quite obviously simply failing to adhere to Roys faultless game plan
:glare:

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:28 am

mart wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:In fact, i'd drop him and play Babel up front...and i never throught i'd say that.

I'd take nando in a wheelchair over babel.

why?

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:48 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
mart wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:In fact, i'd drop him and play Babel up front...and i never throught i'd say that.

I'd take nando in a wheelchair over babel.

why?

I rather drop Lucas and replace with Babel ... Since Roy play only 1 systems which that is long ball ... 2 target man Ngog and Kuyt but 3 upfront ( Ngog, Torres and Kuyt ) and 3 Midfield ( Maxi, Raul and Babel ) ....

When we attack it's 4-3-3 and when we defend 4-3-2-1 ......or .... 4-5-1 ....

by **devaney** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:56 am

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:Nando = new scapegoat . FACT . You couldn't make it up could you ?Delusional .

Well no blame could possibly fall at the feet of the manager Igor ...that would be the equivalent of stating Roy determined which tactics the team employed in games, and he was in fact in charge of substitutions ....such thoughts are absolute nonsense ....the manager being held responsible for the teams displays never heard of it ....No its far better to blame it on one of our few genuine world class players we have at the club who is quite obviously simply failing to adhere to Roys faultless game plan

Sorry to be blunt but this really is utter nonsense. The sarcasm is beyond belief. The point that a lot of people are making including myself is that all of the problems are not simply down to RH. Torres has looked way off his game for a very long time so why during last season did he suddenly fail to adhere to Rafa's tactics that had previously worked well for him? Certainly the supply line dried up after Alonso was transferred to Real Madrid but we mustn't blame the previous incumbent for that piece of brilliant man management. Sorry couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm!

Injury has been a major problem and I am not sure that he is fully fit now - don't know just an educated guess? When Torres has returned from injury in the past he seems to take an eternity to regain his form. Apart from the odd flash of brilliance this season he has never been himself or looked remotely interested.More to this one than meets the eye and it is not just RH's fault.If you were signing his weekly pay cheque I think you would take a vastly less sympathetic view. At the moment his value reduces almost every time he plays.Do you honestly think Barca or Real Madrid would be prepared to pay £80m for Torres at the moment? They would have done at the end of the 2008/09 season. I think we would do well to get £40m for him at the moment. When does his contract run out?

It comes to something when he get's outplayed by Ngog !! The difference is that Ngog isn't behaving like a spoiled brat and he working very hard to improve.What sort of message does Torres's body language send out to opposing teams? He must have frightened Newcastle to death!

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:08 am

Right lets get this straight . Nando is not playing very well , agreed. Why though ?

Well could it be that the manager is not playing to his stregnths and he's pretty miffed at this . Anyone see the stat that nando had the least touches of any player on the park on saturday . Why would that be then ? Could it be that he is not getting the service from the midfield that he should be be ? Could it be that the gap between the midfield and the strikers is far to big ? What do you want torres to do , come deeper to get the ball off the midfield ? So that would mean you have N'gog coming deeper aswell as Torres ,very threatening to the defense i must say . Torres plays on the shoulder of the defender that is his whole game and he relies on his speed to beat the offside trap and feeding of through balls from our midfield to put him in a good position to profit . Once it happend and once he missed the chance (the goalie saved it ) . If the whole team pushed twenty yards up the park the difference would be there to see. THe defense wouldn't have to hoof the ball hopeing torres or n'gog might win a header and then somehow create a chance for themselves . The defense could pass he ball onto midfield who are then closer to the strikers to ceate chances and support those strikers when attacking goal . Torres is miffed and rightly so because hodgson thinks that he should play like Bobby feckin zamorra and plough a loan furrow up front hoping for your midfield to make that twenty yards of space up to support him . Win the headers and cause a nusance for the defense . Bollox to that , he is not your old style english target man , he's a lad who relies on his team mates to help create chances for him and he's not getting that help , so he's p1ssed off and again rightly so .

by **rocky29** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:14 am

if nando sat in the penalty with his legs and arms crossed and his bottom lip stuck out during a match. Some people on here would still say its not his fault. Its the same with rafa. Its beyond a joke.

by **devaney** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:37 am

Igor - all very admirable but exactly what happened last season when Torres was just as poor under a different manager? I am a massive fan of Torres but he has to shoulder some of the responsibility for his current form. Even when he get's some decent service his first touch is awful and he simply is not the player he was - at the moment!

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:47 am

devaney wrote:Igor - all very admirable but exactly what happened last season when Torres was just as poor under a different manager? I am a massive fan of Torres but he has to shoulder some of the responsibility for his current form. Even when he get's some decent service his first touch is awful and he simply is not the player he was - at the moment!

Look at Torres's injuries last season and go look at the number of goals scored . He wasn't poor at all last season ,also this is not about last season that's history and gone .We are well into a new season and the football being played is woeful . He does need to shoulder some responsibilty and yes his first touch has been poor ,no denying that . He is playing in a system away from home that does not suit and that is the majority of the problem. The answer is not to drop torres the answer is to play to torres's stregnths.

by **mart** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:00 am

devaney wrote:Igor - all very admirable but exactly what happened last season when Torres was just as poor under a different manager?

You mean when he was so awful he scored 18 goals in 22 league matches even when struggling with injuries? Compared to this year when he has 5 goals in 16 matches?

That is 0,82 goals/match in 2009-2010 and 0,31 goals/match in 2010-2011 so far.

by **Ciggy** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:05 am

mart wrote:
devaney wrote:Igor - all very admirable but exactly what happened last season when Torres was just as poor under a different manager?

You mean when he was so awful he scored 18 goals in 22 league matches even when struggling with injuries? Compared to this year when he has 5 goals in 16 matches?

That is 0,82 goals/match in 2009-2010 and 0,31 goals/match in 2010-2011 so far.

Its all in your mind Mart its Torres's fault and not the managers Torres out !!! :;):

by **andy_g** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:22 am

i dunno where all this stuff comes from about him not wanting to play as a target man. since when has being on of two strikers in a 4-4-2 been a target man?? i've seen us playing (or trying to play) a progressive, 'ball on the floor' game a lot more this season than i have for a while. the supply from mereiles and maxi especially has been good and we've been getting plenty of chances. the striker on the end of those chances is not converting them this season when in his pomp he would have managed it in his sleep.

the slump in his form is probably a complex issue. his injuries have probably shorn him of confidence and sharpness, and he's also probably miffed at the club he loves being currently mediocre. blaming his lack of ability to put the ball in the net or even look bothered on the manager is another of the many varieties of desperation and delusion that people are showing on this forum lately. the fact that the team in general keeps backing off more and more as the game goes on smacks of a collective lack of confidence rather than a preconceived tactic. the fact is that torres gets his chances but he doesn't put them away.

i'd like to see torres look like he actually gives a shít and to remember that this is the club he always dreamed about playing for. if the club isn't winning enough games for his liking then he should fúcking well make a bit more effort to rectify that.

by **Red-er-Dare** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:12 am

andy_g wrote:i dunno where all this stuff comes from about him not wanting to play as a target man. since when has being on of two strikers in a 4-4-2 been a target man?? i've seen us playing (or trying to play) a progressive, 'ball on the floor' game a lot more this season than i have for a while. the supply from mereiles and maxi especially has been good and we've been getting plenty of chances. the striker on the end of those chances is not converting them this season when in his pomp he would have managed it in his sleep.

the slump in his form is probably a complex issue. his injuries have probably shorn him of confidence and sharpness, and he's also probably miffed at the club he loves being currently mediocre. blaming his lack of ability to put the ball in the net or even look bothered on the manager is another of the many varieties of desperation and delusion that people are showing on this forum lately. the fact that the team in general keeps backing off more and more as the game goes on smacks of a collective lack of confidence rather than a preconceived tactic. the fact is that torres gets his chances but he doesn't put them away.

i'd like to see torres look like he actually gives a shít and to remember that this is the club he always dreamed about playing for. if the club isn't winning enough games for his liking then he should fúcking well make a bit more effort to rectify that.

At last, a bit of sense...

by **stmichael** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:25 am

With Tevez now leaving City I wouldn't be surprised if they come in with a big bid sooner rather than later.

That sitter he missed at the weekend had nothing to do with tactics and everything to do with a lack of confidence first and foremost. Same with those two chances he fluffed at Spurs.

The problem I have is that in the face of adversity a lot of our senior players tend to deflect the blame and sulk instead.

by **rocky29** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:27 am

Red-er-Dare wrote:
andy_g wrote:i dunno where all this stuff comes from about him not wanting to play as a target man. since when has being on of two strikers in a 4-4-2 been a target man?? i've seen us playing (or trying to play) a progressive, 'ball on the floor' game a lot more this season than i have for a while. the supply from mereiles and maxi especially has been good and we've been getting plenty of chances. the striker on the end of those chances is not converting them this season when in his pomp he would have managed it in his sleep.

the slump in his form is probably a complex issue. his injuries have probably shorn him of confidence and sharpness, and he's also probably miffed at the club he loves being currently mediocre. blaming his lack of ability to put the ball in the net or even look bothered on the manager is another of the many varieties of desperation and delusion that people are showing on this forum lately. the fact that the team in general keeps backing off more and more as the game goes on smacks of a collective lack of confidence rather than a preconceived tactic. the fact is that torres gets his chances but he doesn't put them away.

i'd like to see torres look like he actually gives a shít and to remember that this is the club he always dreamed about playing for. if the club isn't winning enough games for his liking then he should fúcking well make a bit more effort to rectify that.

At last, a bit of sense...

see i was right again. I said he was taking the :censored:

and didnt want to be here anymore. Sell him in january for me im sick of him moping around to be honest.

by **devaney** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:38 am

mart wrote:
devaney wrote:Igor - all very admirable but exactly what happened last season when Torres was just as poor under a different manager?

You mean when he was so awful he scored 18 goals in 22 league matches even when struggling with injuries? Compared to this year when he has 5 goals in 16 matches?

That is 0,82 goals/match in 2009-2010 and 0,31 goals/match in 2010-2011 so far.

And a lot of the goals were before December 2009 and after that he just wasn't himself and I accept the injuries argument. As I have said I am a massive fan of Torres and the same can not be said of my feelings toward RH but I just think that there is more to it than Hodgson's tactics. Hope I am wrong and when Hodgson leaves the old Nando will have a smile back on his face.

Liverpool FC Forum

Taxi for Torres - judas fecks off to chelsea

Who is online