Liverpool FC Forum

by **andy_g** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:32 am

fivecups wrote:My prediction - this DNA will turn out to be non-functional.

what do you base that prediction on? its already been seen to be functional...

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:04 am

The most important question has to be . Does it have a fanny ?

by **dawson99** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:12 am

Igor Zidane wrote:The most important question has to be . Does it have a fanny ?

Finally someone else on my level :buttrock

by **fivecups** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:50 am

andy_g wrote:
fivecups wrote:My prediction - this DNA will turn out to be non-functional.

what do you base that prediction on? its already been seen to be functional...

No it hasn't. They haven't even demonstrated that arsenate replaces phosphate in the DNA backbone yet. In fact the more I think about that the more improbable (or amazing) it sounds.

Can an element of atomic number 15 simply be replaced by an element of atomic number 33 in a structure as complex as DNA?

What would be truly staggeringly unbelievable would be if the arsenate DNA was functional ie. it could proceed through the cell cycle leading to cell division and normal cellular production of genes which can lead to the production of proteins etc. etc. It seems almost impossible on a chemical, physical or biological level to me.

This one group have shown in one study that the bacteria will grow in a phosphorous environment, but not in an medium deficient in phosphorous and arsenic. The compelling finding is that if you add arsenic the cells grow, albeit slower than under normal conditions. Why? Who knows. They have shown arsenic in the cell cytoplasm and cell nucleus (where the DNA is) and suggested it is bound to oxygen and carbon but as far as I can see much more work is needed to show that it is incorporated in DNA and even more to show that DNA is functional.

This preliminary work needs confirmatory studies and more in depth experiments - with the level of exposure it's received they'll be available very soon.

by **Sabre** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:49 am

LFC2007 wrote:So, it's a kind of extremophile?

Andy G knows a lot about this stuff, but it seems it goes beyond that because P was an element that could be founf in any known living thing and other living things not using it and including in it's biochemistry means live could be achieved in so many other ways.

It seems very important news to me!

by **andy_g** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:05 pm

the experiments have shown that the cells are able to grow in a culture environment in which they replace phosphorous with arsenic - meaning that the cells divide which means the DNA functions enough to reliably copy itself. of course, we don't know if the organism would remain viable if the phosphorous was completely replaced with arsenic - i guess there are experiments going on now to determine this - but we do know that at the very least a temporarily functional DNA that uses arsenic in part of its structure is functional.

the relative positions of phosphorous and arsenic on the periodic table are exactly why this can work - but paradoxically why it is also deadly for other organisms. arsenic is very very similar to phosphorous and will carry out most of the same reactions. the big difference is that arsenic based reactions are a lot less stable - and that's what makes it such an effective poison. DNA will readily take up arsenic instead of phosphorous but it will cease to function as it will become increasingly unstable. what this organism has somehow managed to do is to counter the instability of the arsenic chemistry and use it.

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:50 pm

Still waiting !!!!!

by **andy_g** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:58 pm

sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:07 pm

andy_g wrote:what this organism has somehow managed to do is to counter the instability of the arsenic chemistry and use it.

How long before it evolves sentience and destroys us all, Andy? Not looking forward to becoming some arsenic merchant's bitch.

:Oo:

by **Igor Zidane** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:18 pm

andy_g wrote:sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

I shall depart this thread then ,as it is goes way over my head . Good luck chaps , i hope it's everything you wished for .

by **dawson99** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:53 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
andy_g wrote:sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

I shall depart this thread then ,as it is goes way over my head . Good luck chaps , i hope it's everything you wished for .

Igor, I'll take you to some pubs, I've seen some very bizarre oranisms where fanny is involved if you search hard enough

by **fivecups** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:02 pm

andy_g wrote:but we do know that at the very least a temporarily functional DNA that uses arsenic in part of its structure is functional.

Andy!!

Did you read my post above dude?

That is exactly what we don't know - and what, if proven, would be nothing short of a physical, chemical and biological miracle. This study hasn't even proven that arsenic replaces phosphorous in the DNA backbone nevermind that the arsenic DNA is functional. More in-depth studies and confirmatory studies are required and until then these findings should not be over-interpreted.

by **andy_g** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:13 am

fivecups wrote:
andy_g wrote:but we do know that at the very least a temporarily functional DNA that uses arsenic in part of its structure is functional.

Andy!!

Did you read my post above dude?

That is exactly what we don't know - and what, if proven, would be nothing short of a physical, chemical and biological miracle. This study hasn't even proven that arsenic replaces phosphorous in the DNA backbone nevermind that the arsenic DNA is functional. More in-depth studies and confirmatory studies are required and until then these findings should not be over-interpreted.

fivecups!!

i did, man

maybe i'm taking the 'pro' stance here and you the 'anti'... or something

. my biochemistry is slightly shakey, i have to admit - but the impression i am getting is that the organism is able to use arsenic to carry out the phosphorous functions in the absence of phosphorous. to me that suggests a DNA that functions using arsenic when necessary. i agree with you that a lot more study is necessary to confirm whether or not this is viable in the long term but i think its fairly certain that we are seeing something that in biological terms - or as far as contemporary biological understanding is concerned - is revolutionary.

by **fivecups** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:20 am

I certainly wouldn't conclude as much as that, but it will be interesting to watch the story unfold.....

by **Judge** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:37 am

dawson99 wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
andy_g wrote:sorry igor. lack of fanny has been confirmed.... i repeat, confirmed.

I shall depart this thread then ,as it is goes way over my head . Good luck chaps , i hope it's everything you wished for .

Igor, I'll take you to some pubs, I've seen some very bizarre oranisms where fanny is involved if you search hard enough

lol

Liverpool FC Forum

Arsenic based life form discovered - "wtf is this sh*t?" cries top scientist

Who is online